TR Propulsion Systems

[KhanOfEurasia]

I think later Variants of the Engine will get TVC.

 

[TheInsider]

He hinted IDEF. I hope SSB gives permission to speak

 

[zio]

I am very sad about TS-1400,that is waiting for civil certification,in fact for military version we do not need it.I remember for civil certification of hürkuş,waste of time and money.

 

[uçuyorum]

If baykar is already making their own KE engine maybe it was wiser to prioritize 6000 for ANKA 3 instead? Baykar doesn't seem too enthusiastic about using Tf 10000 or cooperating with TEI honestly

 

[mTT]

If baykar is already making their own KE engine maybe it was wiser to prioritize 6000 for ANKA 3 instead? Baykar doesn't seem too enthusiastic about using Tf 10000 or cooperating with TEI honestly

We do not know that Baykar is working on the Turbofan Engine, the only information we know is that it has purchased the furnace used in engine production.

TF6000 has to be ready for TF10000. In a play on words, he said that our priority is the KIZILELMA engine.

What Baykar wants is to deliver the engine quickly and respond to orders with mass production.

 

[sh. Abdj]

If baykar is already making their own KE engine maybe it was wiser to prioritize 6000 for ANKA 3 instead? Baykar doesn't seem too enthusiastic about using Tf 10000 or cooperating with TEI honestly

We do not know that Baykar is working on the Turbofan Engine, the only information we know is that it has purchased the furnace used in engine production.

TF6000 has to be ready for TF10000. In a play on words, he said that our priority is the KIZILELMA engine.

What Baykar wants is to deliver the engine quickly and respond to orders with mass production.

I think Baykar could be developing their own Turbofan engines for the following reasons:

1- They started engine development company with Ukrainian firms.
2- They know TAI works slowly and will take long time to enter big mass production.
3- unlike TAI they work as start up. They want everything fast and in mass.
4- They promised to have the capacity to produce 36 to 60 yearly wich will mean different variant with different engines.
5- They think of worst case scenario where the nation will be needing big numbers and big increase in production that TAI mostly will be slow to match.

In summary Baykar maybe will be Using tens of TF10000 in the coming years but needing much more to match the local and global demand. Baykar today can produce 200+ TB2 in first year of war and more than 300+ in second year. In my opinion they are the only institution understanding the importance of mass production economically and in case of War. Ukraine war is a clear lesson that NATO way of thinking of having small highly trained Army with small number of high tech weapons is not enough to bring victory and that numbers really still matter. US, China, Russia, france, Iran, South and north Korea, are all ramping production and capacity. And the biggest hike in production can be seen in two of Turkeye neighbors( Russia and Iran). So the government institutions should wake up and respond to the changes.

 

[Fairon]

If baykar is already making their own KE engine maybe it was wiser to prioritize 6000 for ANKA 3 instead? Baykar doesn't seem too enthusiastic about using Tf 10000 or cooperating with TEI honestly

We do not know that Baykar is working on the Turbofan Engine, the only information we know is that it has purchased the furnace used in engine production.

TF6000 has to be ready for TF10000. In a play on words, he said that our priority is the KIZILELMA engine.

What Baykar wants is to deliver the engine quickly and respond to orders with mass production.

Come to think of it, is there a possibility that the TF10000 could be produced at Baykar's facilities?

Perhaps Baykar is aiming for that as well. This way, they could align airframe production with engine production

 

[Ahlatshah]

There were some news about furnace that Baykar purchased and engine to be produced would be more powerful than the current Ukrainian engine but we are talking about 20.000 libres. I know Mr Özbek is one of the most trusted correspondent out there but that is completely unexpected:

"Baykar continues to invest 20.000 LIBRES of engine, similar to the ones that powered Hurjet"

 

[Agha Sher]

Interesting information indeed, afaik he is the first and only one who mentions it.

"Well, from now on, Baykar will continue its investments in engines, and the next target is the design of an engine with high thrust power, capable of providing around 20,000 pounds of thrust, as used in Hürjet. Baykar is continuing its investments in this area. The aim here is to ensure that this engine can be used in the new versions of Kızılelma. Baykar is truly ambitious in this regard."

Woah, so Hurjet will also get a domestic engine if need be. Baykar keeps amazing with the ambition - hope they can keep delivering!

Also, whatever version of KE they are planning is going to be a monster.

 

[Sanchez]

so Hurjet will also get a domestic engine if need be.

This doesn't mean that, but it could be a possibility in far future.

 

[Agha Sher]

This doesn't mean that, but it could be a possibility in far future.

"if need be"

 

[Pokemonte13]

Perhaps once the f16 get out of service in 2040 we will have twin engine Hürjet kinda like Turkish f18 as the low cost option aside from kaan Eurofighter and perhaps f35
Also wouldn’t 20 000 pounds be overkill for Kizilelma

 

[Zoth]

Perhaps once the f16 get out of service in 2040 we will have twin engine Hürjet kinda like Turkish f18 as the low cost option aside from kaan Eurofighter and perhaps f35
Also wouldn’t 20 000 pounds be overkill for Kizilelma

Depends, Baykar was planning a twin engine version of KE, they may changed their minds to single engine KE with 20k lbf thrust

OR

They are still going for twin engined KE with twin 20k lbf thrust which means that later iterations of KE will be much bigger and more complex avionics wise.

 

[TheInsider]

Turkish Technic and Rolls-Royce are setting up an engine maintenance center at Istanbul Airport. The facility will do the maintenance of Trent XWB-97, Trent XWB-84, and Trent 7000 engines starting from 2027.

 

[Bilge adam reis]

TF6000 is not even made yet we have been trying to get TS1400 into production for years but somehow we are going make bigger TF6000 and It will be better than the US or European engines

 

[mehmed beg]

TF6000 is not even made yet we have been trying to get TS1400 into production for years but somehow we are going make bigger TF6000 and It will be better than the US or European engines

Triggered much?

 

[Sanchez]

TF6000 is not even made yet we have been trying to get TS1400 into production for years but somehow we are going make bigger TF6000 and It will be better than the US or European engines

We are not "trying" to put TS1400 into production. If anything, production and testing schedule is going pretty nicely.

 

[Zafer]

TF6000 is not even made yet we have been trying to get TS1400 into production for years but somehow we are going make bigger TF6000 and It will be better than the US or European engines

You are missing the TF35000 engine which is supposed to be the pinnacle of Turkish engineering, only two years or so to first ignition.

 

[Yasar_TR]

TF6000 is not even made yet we have been trying to get TS1400 into production for years but somehow we are going make bigger TF6000 and It will be better than the US or European engines

You are missing the TF35000 engine which is supposed to be the pinnacle of Turkish engineering, only two years or so to first ignition.

You are both missing important points.

@Bilge adam reis ,
1. TF6000 has already been fired. It has been tested over 100 times. It has been pulled apart and reassembled and fired again.
2. An engine like TF6000, at it’s first firing, would probably give a thrust of 55-65% of aimed final thrust. But having done the tests and corrected the engine, Prof Aksit said they have attained a thrust level of more than the aimed figure.
3. So your claim of TF6000 not being “made” is not correct. It is almost there to be used. But needs maturing a bit more. Same goes for the TS1400. Infact this engine is ready to use if it can be certified.
4. No one from TEI is claiming that the 35000lbf thrust engine would be better than a US or European engine. What is said is that this engine is going to be one of the most technologically advanced engines in the world.
5. If you questioned the timeline involved in KAAN’s engine, that would be a valid argument. When we haven’t even got a fully working turbofan in hand, to expect such an advanced engine to be in working condition so soon. That needs some doing.

@Zafer ,
Point 5 applies to you too.
According to the information released, the engine for KAAN is ready in digital domain. But it needs to be physically built as a prototype. From what Prof Aksit was saying, they are at the prototype building stage now.
That means within a year we should have the first firing if no predicaments are encountered ; like the West blocking sale of some simple pump.
But then it needs a lot of time to mature.

If our memory serves, we should remember that Prof Aksit was quite verbal about being able to manufacture an engine like F119 which is off the sale list of US built engines.
So that is the engine performance levels we are aiming for. To achieve that with the addition of more modern technologies incorporated, will be a real feat of achievement for TEI.

Also let us not forget that Prof Aksit had pointed out that we need a good 10+ years and more like 13-14 years to have an engine like F119.
Unfortunately we have no other option but to produce this engine like yesterday. Even if it means it is underpowered or underperforming to start with. But it has to be built.

 

[Zafer]

You are both missing important points.

@Bilge adam reis ,
1. TF6000 has already been fired. It has been tested over 100 times. It has been pulled apart and reassembled and fired again.
2. An engine like TF6000, at it’s first firing, would probably give a thrust of 55-65% of aimed final thrust. But having done the tests and corrected the engine, Prof Aksit said they have attained a thrust level of more than the aimed figure.
3. So your claim of TF6000 not being “made” is not correct. It is almost there to be used. But needs maturing a bit more. Same goes for the TS1400. Infact this engine is ready to use if it can be certified.
4. No one from TEI is claiming that the 35000lbf thrust engine would be better than a US or European engine. What is said is that this engine is going to be one of the most technologically advanced engines in the world.
5. If you questioned the timeline involved in KAAN’s engine, that would be a valid argument. When we haven’t even got a fully working turbofan in hand, to expect such an advanced engine to be in working condition so soon. That needs some doing.

@Zafer ,
Point 5 applies to you too.
According to the information released, the engine for KAAN is ready in digital domain. But it needs to be physically built as a prototype. From what Prof Aksit was saying, they are at the prototype building stage now.
That means within a year we should have the first firing if no predicaments are encountered ; like the West blocking sale of some simple pump.
But then it needs a lot of time to mature.

If our memory serves, we should remember that Prof Aksit was quite verbal about being able to manufacture an engine like F119 which is off the sale list of US built engines.
So that is the engine performance levels we are aiming for. To achieve that with the addition of more modern technologies incorporated, will be a real feat of achievement for TEI.

Also let us not forget that Prof Aksit had pointed out that we need a good 10+ years and more like 13-14 years to have an engine like F119.
Unfortunately we have no other option but to produce this engine like yesterday. Even if it means it is underpowered or underperforming to start with. But it has to be built.

Mr. Akşit said some detail design work and some detail calculations are still ongoing. However the parts that design works have been completed for should be in the process of manufacturing already. How long the manufacturing will take is guesswork at best. My guess is we can hear some roaring in 18 months.