TR Propulsion Systems

[BalkanTurk90]

TEI, Mahmut Akşit:

The details of the KAAN turbofan engine (TF35000) have been emerged, after that there will be prototype production. There is not much left to the prototype. There are 2-3 engines with this level in the world. When we build this engine, we will be able to build all kinds of engines in the world

 

[Yasar_TR]

TEI, Mahmut Akşit:

The details of the KAAN turbofan engine (TF35000) have been emerged, after that there will be prototype production. There is not much left to the prototype. There are 2-3 engines with this level in the world. When we build this engine, we will be able to build all kinds of engines in the world

Theoretically what you say is correct. But in reality, each engine with a significantly different thrust level will present different peculiarities that will mean it will need to be redeveloped. There are computer programs that will tell you what you need to do when you produce a gas turbine engine. But what the computer tells you is actually no more than giving you guidance. Computer may tell you dimensions of a turbine blade. But a computer can not know what the idiosyncrasies of that blade is.
Yes, if we can build a 35000lbf thrust engine, it will give us a lot of self confidence in building another engine with say, 20000lbf thrust. But we will still need to go through all the test procedures and integration stages.
To give a small example:
Safran builds CFM engines with GE. Yet it took them years to mature their M88 engine.
RR built 24000lbf dry thrust Pegasus engine for Harriers and 40000lbf wet thrust F136 engine for the F35 with GE. But still had to develop a new engine from the XG-40 as a high end combat engine. Then it took years for RR and MTU to mature EJ-200 that flies Typhoons.

So , although it wouldn’t be like tackling engine building for the first time, it still wouldn’t necessarily be a walk in the park.

 

[Strong AI]

Theoretically what you say is correct. But in reality, each engine with a significantly different thrust level will provide different peculiarities that will mean it will need to be redeveloped. There are computer programs that will tell you what you need it do when you produce a gas turbine engine. But what the computer tells you is actually to give you guidance. Computer may tell you dimensions of a turbine blade. But a computer can not know what the idiosyncrasies of that blade is.
Yes, if we can build a 35000lbf thrust engine, it will give us a lot of self confidence in building another engine with say, 20000lbf thrust. But we will still need to go through all the test procedures and integration stages.
To give a small example:
Safran builds CFM engines with GE. Yet it took them years to mature their M88 engine.
RR built 24000lbf dry thrust Pegasus engine for Harriers and 40000lbf wet thrust F136 engine for the F35 with GE. But still had to develop a new engine from the XG-40 as a high end combat engine. Then it took years for RR and MTU to mature EJ-200 that flies Typhoons.

So , although it wouldn’t be like tackling engine building for the first time, it still wouldn’t necessarily be a walk in the park.

Bro he only quoted Mr. Aksit, but it looks like he put his own interpretation into it.
IMO Mr. Aksit basically tells that KAAN's indigenous engine will be so advanced, that with that technology obtained, they will be able to build all kinds of aircraft engines. Here is the whole part of his quote.

Let’s also touch on the KAAN project your work there is very important. How is that going?
We’re not really allowed to give dates, as requested by our leadership. It’s more satisfying to say “We did it” once it’s done. But we are making rapid progress.
The main engine architecture has been finalized. We’re now in the detailed calculation phase. Next, we’ll move to prototype manufacturing and testing.

There’s still a long road ahead, but the engine prototype is not too far away, God willing.
You’re trying to build the most advanced jet engine possible.
Yes. And this class of engine we’re talking about the world’s most advanced aviation engine technology. Only 3 or 4 such engines exist globally in this category.
This isn’t a standard fighter engine like the F110. It’s a much more advanced one. It’s the peak of aviation engine tech.
Once you’ve built this, you can build anything passenger jets, etc.

And of course, that level of complexity means production takes time.
You’re producing a motor beyond standard alloys and standard manufacturing techniques pushing the limits. So it takes time.
We don’t want to make promises about speed, but we’re moving as fast as we can.
For example, the foreign engine currently used in helicopters made its first flight after 8 years. You can check this online. We did it in 6 years so we were pretty fast.
God willing, we’ll see similar or better progress with the KAAN engine too.

 

[Hannibal]

They said TF-35000, will have:

Low Observability
Thrust Vector Control
Supercruise

Will they do this in steps or all at once?

 

[BaburKhan]

I think later Variants of the Engine will get TVC.

 

[Strong AI]

They said TF-35000, will have:

Low Observability
Thrust Vector Control
Supercruise

Will they do this in steps or all at once?

I think later Variants of the Engine will get TVC.

AFAIK this is the only official information we have.

Later prototypes (or maybe he means iterations) of KAAN's engine will have thrust vectoring. (at like 04:55 min)

 

[TheInsider]

He hinted IDEF. I hope SSB gives permission to speak

 

[zio]

I am very sad about TS-1400,that is waiting for civil certification,in fact for military version we do not need it.I remember for civil certification of hürkuş,waste of time and money.

 

[uçuyorum]

If baykar is already making their own KE engine maybe it was wiser to prioritize 6000 for ANKA 3 instead? Baykar doesn't seem too enthusiastic about using Tf 10000 or cooperating with TEI honestly

 

[mTT]

If baykar is already making their own KE engine maybe it was wiser to prioritize 6000 for ANKA 3 instead? Baykar doesn't seem too enthusiastic about using Tf 10000 or cooperating with TEI honestly

We do not know that Baykar is working on the Turbofan Engine, the only information we know is that it has purchased the furnace used in engine production.

TF6000 has to be ready for TF10000. In a play on words, he said that our priority is the KIZILELMA engine.

What Baykar wants is to deliver the engine quickly and respond to orders with mass production.

 

[sh. Abdj]

If baykar is already making their own KE engine maybe it was wiser to prioritize 6000 for ANKA 3 instead? Baykar doesn't seem too enthusiastic about using Tf 10000 or cooperating with TEI honestly

We do not know that Baykar is working on the Turbofan Engine, the only information we know is that it has purchased the furnace used in engine production.

TF6000 has to be ready for TF10000. In a play on words, he said that our priority is the KIZILELMA engine.

What Baykar wants is to deliver the engine quickly and respond to orders with mass production.

I think Baykar could be developing their own Turbofan engines for the following reasons:

1- They started engine development company with Ukrainian firms.
2- They know TAI works slowly and will take long time to enter big mass production.
3- unlike TAI they work as start up. They want everything fast and in mass.
4- They promised to have the capacity to produce 36 to 60 yearly wich will mean different variant with different engines.
5- They think of worst case scenario where the nation will be needing big numbers and big increase in production that TAI mostly will be slow to match.

In summary Baykar maybe will be Using tens of TF10000 in the coming years but needing much more to match the local and global demand. Baykar today can produce 200+ TB2 in first year of war and more than 300+ in second year. In my opinion they are the only institution understanding the importance of mass production economically and in case of War. Ukraine war is a clear lesson that NATO way of thinking of having small highly trained Army with small number of high tech weapons is not enough to bring victory and that numbers really still matter. US, China, Russia, france, Iran, South and north Korea, are all ramping production and capacity. And the biggest hike in production can be seen in two of Turkeye neighbors( Russia and Iran). So the government institutions should wake up and respond to the changes.

 

[Fairon]

If baykar is already making their own KE engine maybe it was wiser to prioritize 6000 for ANKA 3 instead? Baykar doesn't seem too enthusiastic about using Tf 10000 or cooperating with TEI honestly

We do not know that Baykar is working on the Turbofan Engine, the only information we know is that it has purchased the furnace used in engine production.

TF6000 has to be ready for TF10000. In a play on words, he said that our priority is the KIZILELMA engine.

What Baykar wants is to deliver the engine quickly and respond to orders with mass production.

Come to think of it, is there a possibility that the TF10000 could be produced at Baykar's facilities?

Perhaps Baykar is aiming for that as well. This way, they could align airframe production with engine production

 

[Ahlatshah]

There were some news about furnace that Baykar purchased and engine to be produced would be more powerful than the current Ukrainian engine but we are talking about 20.000 libres. I know Mr Özbek is one of the most trusted correspondent out there but that is completely unexpected:

"Baykar continues to invest 20.000 LIBRES of engine, similar to the ones that powered Hurjet"

 

[Strong AI]

There were some news about furnace that Baykar purchased and engine to be produced would be more powerful than the current Ukrainian engine but we are talking about 20.000 libres. I know Mr Özbek is one of the most trusted correspondent out there but that is completely unexpected:

"Baykar continues to invest 20.000 LIBRES of engine, similar to the ones that powered Hurjet"

Interesting information indeed, afaik he is the first and only one who mentions it.

"Well, from now on, Baykar will continue its investments in engines, and the next target is the design of an engine with high thrust power, capable of providing around 20,000 pounds of thrust, as used in Hürjet. Baykar is continuing its investments in this area. The aim here is to ensure that this engine can be used in the new versions of Kızılelma. Baykar is truly ambitious in this regard."

 

[Agha Sher]

Interesting information indeed, afaik he is the first and only one who mentions it.

"Well, from now on, Baykar will continue its investments in engines, and the next target is the design of an engine with high thrust power, capable of providing around 20,000 pounds of thrust, as used in Hürjet. Baykar is continuing its investments in this area. The aim here is to ensure that this engine can be used in the new versions of Kızılelma. Baykar is truly ambitious in this regard."

Woah, so Hurjet will also get a domestic engine if need be. Baykar keeps amazing with the ambition - hope they can keep delivering!

Also, whatever version of KE they are planning is going to be a monster.

 

[Sanchez]

so Hurjet will also get a domestic engine if need be.

This doesn't mean that, but it could be a possibility in far future.

 

[Agha Sher]

This doesn't mean that, but it could be a possibility in far future.

"if need be"

 

[Pokemonte13]

Perhaps once the f16 get out of service in 2040 we will have twin engine Hürjet kinda like Turkish f18 as the low cost option aside from kaan Eurofighter and perhaps f35
Also wouldn’t 20 000 pounds be overkill for Kizilelma

 

[Zoth]

Perhaps once the f16 get out of service in 2040 we will have twin engine Hürjet kinda like Turkish f18 as the low cost option aside from kaan Eurofighter and perhaps f35
Also wouldn’t 20 000 pounds be overkill for Kizilelma

Depends, Baykar was planning a twin engine version of KE, they may changed their minds to single engine KE with 20k lbf thrust

OR

They are still going for twin engined KE with twin 20k lbf thrust which means that later iterations of KE will be much bigger and more complex avionics wise.

 

[TheInsider]

Turkish Technic and Rolls-Royce are setting up an engine maintenance center at Istanbul Airport. The facility will do the maintenance of Trent XWB-97, Trent XWB-84, and Trent 7000 engines starting from 2027.