actualy before we rarely seen our name in the mock or other banner, and maybe now Sokor already realize when you deal with Indonesian, you must take them higher and don't neglect them.Agree to all of the above. Korea play a good move by inviting Indonesia President for the launching thus give us the political pressure to respon the IFX issue, good move from them. Will the President attend? Or politely turn down due to "schedule" issue? Perhaps sending someone to accept the invitation? It would be interesting to see our respond as it might reflect our standing to the project.
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Basically final design of C 109 is a refinement of C 103 design that is developed by ADD Korea and Indonesia Aerospace in first phase of development.
C 103 design under Indonesian wind tunnel
This is KAI design that is rejected (single engine). It is actually a development of T 50 that they try to propose.
C 103 design under Indonesian wind tunnel
This is KAI design that is rejected (single engine). It is actually a development of T 50 that they try to propose.
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I will bring more information about design process in first phase of development
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February 6, 2014 (Angkasa/Space Magazine)
KFX / IFX program continued , Government Asked to Immediately Selecting Design
Korea was once considered Indonesia engineer do not understand about the design of a jet fighter. But the notion was quickly turned , when the Indonesian team describes the design and the various inputs. The Indonesian side also the one who finally managed to convince that the aircraft take-off weight of 50,000 pounds must .
Confirmation of the Parliament of South Korea on the resumption of the program KFX / IFX team warmly welcomed designers from Indonesia. They include asking both governments immediately call the engineers involved in preparing work that has been long overdue. They also want the governments of both countries to make sure one of the two designs that have been produced in the Technology Development phase for cultivation in the next phase .
"Program KFX / IFX is a multi - program years , costly, and involve various sectors and foreign partners. For that there must be a definite declaration on it goes. For Indonesia it is important to determine the financing schemes and their human resources planning, "said Dr Rais Zain, M. Eng , KFX / IFX Configuration Design Leader for Angkasa , in late January.
"In the near future Indonesia will also work on the N219 and R - 80. We do not have enough engineers to work three programs, especially KFX / IFX will take place until the 2020s. The government is expected to call home engineers who are now working abroad to come help the regeneration process. Outside there are approximately 200 people . If half of it can be returned to the country, it is enough to help, " added Rais who is also a lecturer at the Faculty of Aerospace Engineering ITB, Bandung.
As reported by the national media, the confirmation of the continuation of the program of making front - liner Korean - Indonesian fighter jets received by the Ministry of Defense on January 3, 2014. Notice is further announced Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro told reporters, Wednesday, January 8, 2014, on the sidelines of Rapim Kemenhan in Jakarta. Explanations related to exposure delivered weapon system procurement plans in the Strategic Plan II, 2015-2019.
The Indonesian government hopes the project of making the 4.5 generation fighter jet could be done because it would be a referral program to remove the dependence of the transfer of technology from other countries. Besides KFX / IFX, Indonesia is also pursuing a program of making submarines , warships, propellants , rockets, and tank size medium. For submarines, Indonesia is also cooperating with the same country.
Superior to the Su - 35Program KFX / IFX was stopped temporarily by Korea's new leader Park Geun - Hye end of 2012 after reviewing the state financially in the country. This prestigious project was worked on since the beginning of 2011, shortly after President Lee Myung - bak and President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono confirmed the bilateral cooperation in the defense field in Jakarta. From the Technology Development Phase that has been completed, a team of scientists has completed a number of conical design that later became two.
The two designs is a model of the stealth fighter jet -winning twin-engine air superiority with horizontally - tails in the back, and the other one is with canards on the front. "Each has consequences different financing and partners. Thus , it must first be decided which one is selected. It is important that when followed, all parties are ready to do it , "said Rais Zain , whose day-to- day lecturer at the Faculty of Engineering, Aerospace Engineering,ITB, Bandung.
As stated Wamenhan Sjafrie, Korean parliament has prepared 20 million U.S. dollars (temporary , Indonesia : $ 5 million) to continue this program in 2015. At that time , the team will go to the Engineering Manufacturing Development Phase. In addition must have a high thrust engine with a power to be able to fight in the air, the aircraft must also have weapons stored in the internal weapons bay , the data - link capable of randomizing communications, advanced radar target voters, and anti - jamming device.
The prototype is expected to finish by the end of the Strategic Plan II . Even if there are things that need to be criticized , it is a matter of operation requirements are much more determined the Korean Air Force . This was inevitable because the Korean bear 80 percent of the funding, and the country actually have a real enemy. This program is targeted to spawn a jet fighter with performance equivalent or superior to the opponent fighter jets which are the Sukhoi Su - 35.
Prerequisites itself dismissed the proposed counter designs KAI ( Korean Aerospace Industrie) recently, rather than to cut development costs are too great. In configuration ( see Space, December 2013 ), looks KFX type E is only one engine powered with weapons outside the radar sweep prone opponent.
Angkasa examine admiration of ADD ( Agency for Defense Development, Defence Research and Development Agency of Korea ) submitted to the Indonesian engineer team. Initially, the team assumes Korea really had no idea about the design of Indonesian fighter jets. However, the assumption was turned when Indonesian engineers began to describe the design and the various inputs to the design of Korea. The Indonesian side also who ultimately ensure that the aircraft must have a takeoff weight of 50,000 pounds.(A.Darmawan/Angkasa magazine).
http://www.angkasa.co.id/index.php/...tkan-pemerintah-diminta-segera-memilih-desain
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This is the most respected aerospace media in Indonesia but unfortunatelly they have erased that 2014 page but I have posted the translation in previous KFX/IFX thread in 2014.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/kf-x...of-south-korea-indonesia-images.182361/page-4
----------------------------------------------------------------------
February 6, 2014 (Angkasa/Space Magazine)
KFX / IFX program continued , Government Asked to Immediately Selecting Design
Korea was once considered Indonesia engineer do not understand about the design of a jet fighter. But the notion was quickly turned , when the Indonesian team describes the design and the various inputs. The Indonesian side also the one who finally managed to convince that the aircraft take-off weight of 50,000 pounds must .
Confirmation of the Parliament of South Korea on the resumption of the program KFX / IFX team warmly welcomed designers from Indonesia. They include asking both governments immediately call the engineers involved in preparing work that has been long overdue. They also want the governments of both countries to make sure one of the two designs that have been produced in the Technology Development phase for cultivation in the next phase .
"Program KFX / IFX is a multi - program years , costly, and involve various sectors and foreign partners. For that there must be a definite declaration on it goes. For Indonesia it is important to determine the financing schemes and their human resources planning, "said Dr Rais Zain, M. Eng , KFX / IFX Configuration Design Leader for Angkasa , in late January.
"In the near future Indonesia will also work on the N219 and R - 80. We do not have enough engineers to work three programs, especially KFX / IFX will take place until the 2020s. The government is expected to call home engineers who are now working abroad to come help the regeneration process. Outside there are approximately 200 people . If half of it can be returned to the country, it is enough to help, " added Rais who is also a lecturer at the Faculty of Aerospace Engineering ITB, Bandung.
As reported by the national media, the confirmation of the continuation of the program of making front - liner Korean - Indonesian fighter jets received by the Ministry of Defense on January 3, 2014. Notice is further announced Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro told reporters, Wednesday, January 8, 2014, on the sidelines of Rapim Kemenhan in Jakarta. Explanations related to exposure delivered weapon system procurement plans in the Strategic Plan II, 2015-2019.
The Indonesian government hopes the project of making the 4.5 generation fighter jet could be done because it would be a referral program to remove the dependence of the transfer of technology from other countries. Besides KFX / IFX, Indonesia is also pursuing a program of making submarines , warships, propellants , rockets, and tank size medium. For submarines, Indonesia is also cooperating with the same country.
Superior to the Su - 35Program KFX / IFX was stopped temporarily by Korea's new leader Park Geun - Hye end of 2012 after reviewing the state financially in the country. This prestigious project was worked on since the beginning of 2011, shortly after President Lee Myung - bak and President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono confirmed the bilateral cooperation in the defense field in Jakarta. From the Technology Development Phase that has been completed, a team of scientists has completed a number of conical design that later became two.
The two designs is a model of the stealth fighter jet -winning twin-engine air superiority with horizontally - tails in the back, and the other one is with canards on the front. "Each has consequences different financing and partners. Thus , it must first be decided which one is selected. It is important that when followed, all parties are ready to do it , "said Rais Zain , whose day-to- day lecturer at the Faculty of Engineering, Aerospace Engineering,ITB, Bandung.
As stated Wamenhan Sjafrie, Korean parliament has prepared 20 million U.S. dollars (temporary , Indonesia : $ 5 million) to continue this program in 2015. At that time , the team will go to the Engineering Manufacturing Development Phase. In addition must have a high thrust engine with a power to be able to fight in the air, the aircraft must also have weapons stored in the internal weapons bay , the data - link capable of randomizing communications, advanced radar target voters, and anti - jamming device.
The prototype is expected to finish by the end of the Strategic Plan II . Even if there are things that need to be criticized , it is a matter of operation requirements are much more determined the Korean Air Force . This was inevitable because the Korean bear 80 percent of the funding, and the country actually have a real enemy. This program is targeted to spawn a jet fighter with performance equivalent or superior to the opponent fighter jets which are the Sukhoi Su - 35.
Prerequisites itself dismissed the proposed counter designs KAI ( Korean Aerospace Industrie) recently, rather than to cut development costs are too great. In configuration ( see Space, December 2013 ), looks KFX type E is only one engine powered with weapons outside the radar sweep prone opponent.
Angkasa examine admiration of ADD ( Agency for Defense Development, Defence Research and Development Agency of Korea ) submitted to the Indonesian engineer team. Initially, the team assumes Korea really had no idea about the design of Indonesian fighter jets. However, the assumption was turned when Indonesian engineers began to describe the design and the various inputs to the design of Korea. The Indonesian side also who ultimately ensure that the aircraft must have a takeoff weight of 50,000 pounds.(A.Darmawan/Angkasa magazine).
http://www.angkasa.co.id/index.php/...tkan-pemerintah-diminta-segera-memilih-desain
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the most respected aerospace media in Indonesia but unfortunatelly they have erased that 2014 page but I have posted the translation in previous KFX/IFX thread in 2014.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/kf-x...of-south-korea-indonesia-images.182361/page-4
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People inside the program (engineers) is not against the continuation by the way. They want government has consistency since it is a long term process to build capability in mastering whole fighter jet technology.
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It is stupid to the max to put Faith on corrupted company like PT DI to do the research and development of newly designed aircraft program. That's not their Forte to begin with. Just look at N219 program, the one who get the biggest credits is actually BPPT and LAPAN, and they actually the one who sourcing the Aircraft maker assembler aka PT DI to do the aircraft assembly according what being researched and developed by BPPT and LAPAN.
The same case happened in KFX program, DAPA is actually the one who work as leader for the entire project and they giving share of work project toward KAI, PT DI , LIG NEXT 1 , SAMSUNG TECHWIN and other companies to do their share. And Indonesian PT DI in this case got work, as sparepart maker and some minor assembly work. If Indonesia at the time of negotiation got some working brain, they should put BPPT and LAPAN as Development partner instead of PT DI, as BPPT-LAPAN actually can outsourcing their Development working share (if we got the negotiation right in the first place) to other party in Indonesia like PT LEN, PT DI, Harrist Utama and so on.
PT DI who had more than five decades experience actually can only build or assembly dozen aircraft per year is not one you can expect to do right thing, you can expect them to do corruption case, put blind Nationalism as their slogan but with empty results.
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DI is mostly responsible on design, if we talk about avionics so we should bring PT LEN Industry. Saying it is LAPAN and BPPT who should get credit on N 219 program, yes in term of financial, but no interm of design and manufacture. LAPAN engineers working in N219 program is to learn from PTDI designers. Your statement above shows you actually dont have much knowledge on the program.
LOL spare part maker, article above shows DI contribute on overall design. Part design is conducted during detail design which is actually started in July 2018. They are already in Korea since 2011.
I know people who works in foreign defense equipment dont like the program.....
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Design of spare part LoL
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Is he talking about DI too?
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If it so, is it there still has possibility to developt KFX version with Full Indonesian specs such as Boom air refueling system ?
Since there's no credible media that bring bright news about KFX and yet recent payment of joint venture being deliver by Indonesian side as well.
Further more, the hurdle that make me pesimistic about this program is our capability to produce avionics and electric system.
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Well it is well documented that we will have that version, you can just google that
Media doesnt interview the engineers who understand that we need steps and it is a long process to acquire jet fighter technology, particularly the 5 generation one. No one will give you TOT 100 %, even when we develop CN235 with CASA, there is no TOT on avionics, despite it is 50:50 %. But maybe the engineers will not publicly dare to say it in front of the press since they know that their boss is those people who speak with the press.
While politician said the restriction to understand the critical technology is something that make the program look bleak and should be stopped, the engineer said that it is a challenge, not something that should make us back down and discontinued the program. No one will open the secret 100 % to you.
While "awam" even said we will not get AESA radar and other critical stuff which is not true.
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We have avionics company like PT Infoglobal and electronics company like PT LEN Industry. PT LEN Industry for instant is making flight control system (FCS) for our UAV MALE program. That is a good step. What has been said by the engineers is that in order to master the latest 5 generation technology we need to have the road map. It is not only PTDI duty but many institutions should be called, something that is like our MALE UCAV and cruise missile consortium. There should be long term goal and adequate budget and commitment to achieve that.
Currently such road map hasnt been created according to him. Although there is work going on to make the road map in aerospace industry and many engineers working outside will also contribute. IMO if we still continue the KFX/IFX program, it create the opportunity to have the road map for fighter jet as well, not only transport planes.
Other thing to support the development of local defense industry is the Defense Ministry role. Military budget should support our own program instead of keep buying from the outside or at minimum we should make joint production with foreign OEM.
Hawk refurbished and upgrade for instant could use avionics made by PT InfoGlobal, it has been used before so there is good precedent that recent government could repeat that. Other example like Lithium battery for submarine could have been supplied by local company that has already had the ability to make it like PT NIPRESS, just an example. CMS for Navy should use the one that has been made by PT LEN Industry in other example or at least cooperation with foreign companies to increase the local content and sophistication of the system.
Currently such road map hasnt been created according to him. Although there is work going on to make the road map in aerospace industry and many engineers working outside will also contribute. IMO if we still continue the KFX/IFX program, it create the opportunity to have the road map for fighter jet as well, not only transport planes.
Other thing to support the development of local defense industry is the Defense Ministry role. Military budget should support our own program instead of keep buying from the outside or at minimum we should make joint production with foreign OEM.
Hawk refurbished and upgrade for instant could use avionics made by PT InfoGlobal, it has been used before so there is good precedent that recent government could repeat that. Other example like Lithium battery for submarine could have been supplied by local company that has already had the ability to make it like PT NIPRESS, just an example. CMS for Navy should use the one that has been made by PT LEN Industry in other example or at least cooperation with foreign companies to increase the local content and sophistication of the system.
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What's the target for that kind of fox two exercises?
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[In-depth analysis] "Sufficient development of KF-X even without joint development in Indonesia" The source of Korea's confidence
[심층분석] "인니 공동개발 아니라도 KF-X 충분히 개발" 한국의 자신감 원천은
[서울=뉴스핌] 하수영 기자 = 대한민국 자체 전투기 개발 및 노후 전투기 대체사업의 결과물인 한국형전투기(KF-X) 1호 시제기가 다음 달 출고된다. 20년을 묵혀 온 숙원사업이 곧 빛을 보는 것이다. 그런데 KF-X 공동개발국인 인도네시아가 현 시점 분담
I got the impression, parts that we produce (and designed) maybe not a critical part afteral (because of how quick they replace it with their own).
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[In-depth analysis] "Sufficient development of KF-X even without joint development in Indonesia" The source of Korea's confidence
Some other source say korean already can produce the part that supposed to be supplied by Indonesia.[심층분석] "인니 공동개발 아니라도 KF-X 충분히 개발" 한국의 자신감 원천은
[서울=뉴스핌] 하수영 기자 = 대한민국 자체 전투기 개발 및 노후 전투기 대체사업의 결과물인 한국형전투기(KF-X) 1호 시제기가 다음 달 출고된다. 20년을 묵혀 온 숙원사업이 곧 빛을 보는 것이다. 그런데 KF-X 공동개발국인 인도네시아가 현 시점 분담m.newspim.com
I got the impression, parts that we produce (and designed) maybe not a critical part afteral (because of how quick they replace it with their own).
But but they are sincere enough to wait for us for long this is will be our last time chance to produce our own fighter !!! LMAO, PT DI input for this projects since long had been a suspicious enough to raise attention of what they are doing excactly in South Korea, if we are critical enough there is almost surely there is delay in this project. BUT IT IS NOT, South Korean doesn't need our right participation in this project, they only need our presence as market place and in some minor extension our money for sharing cost Development but with deep pocket and their sheer determination this not much to begin with.
Parry Brima
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[In-depth analysis] "Sufficient development of KF-X even without joint development in Indonesia" The source of Korea's confidence
Some other source say korean already can produce the part that supposed to be supplied by Indonesia.[심층분석] "인니 공동개발 아니라도 KF-X 충분히 개발" 한국의 자신감 원천은
[서울=뉴스핌] 하수영 기자 = 대한민국 자체 전투기 개발 및 노후 전투기 대체사업의 결과물인 한국형전투기(KF-X) 1호 시제기가 다음 달 출고된다. 20년을 묵혀 온 숙원사업이 곧 빛을 보는 것이다. 그런데 KF-X 공동개발국인 인도네시아가 현 시점 분담
I got the impression, parts that we produce (and designed) maybe not a critical part afteral (because of how quick they replace it with their own).
What really surprises me is this part :
"In addition, Indonesia produces about 40 KF-X through joint development, of which Korea is known to produce only a small amount. Since most of them are produced by Indonesia after receiving technology transfer from Korea, the worst-case scenario of co-development with Indonesia will have little effect on the target production volume."
So we plan to produce 40 KFX and we will be able to produce most of the aircraft after ToT. Really?
Gundala
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Ameen to that.....
Hard to say, its in Korea and translation is crappy. The word produce most likely mean assembly, but assembly it self have broad scope. We have to look into detail agreemant/contract to determine the work participation scope. Is the fuselage come CBU? Tail part CBU as well? Are we just going to be in charge in final asembly? etc.
Let this KFX saga flow, looks like this project doesnt have domestic political support as well. It can only be saved with combination of other significant counter trade/economic deal.
ingnoring no warrant warned by russian for this engine if MRO done by ukraine company , seems like we don't want to keep the fleet(sukhoi) for long time .....
