Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Stuka Dive]

We need to start some where right ??? Perjalanan 1000 km dimulai dari langkah pertama

The gas turbine technology, be it for aero propulsions (turbo prop, turbo fan, turbo jet) or marine propulsions application, is not a rocket science...in fact, it's more than a rocket science.
We can see how many countries are more and more capable in rocket propulsion for their space program or missile program. We can name it : US, UK, French, Russia, China, India, Japan, South Korea, North Korea, Iran, and so on. The list become more and more in the near future.
But for gas turbine manufacturer, especially for aero propulsion, the list only left a few countries. The amount tends to stagnant for decades. Besides the traditional aero GT propulsion maker ( US, UK, French, Russia ), Perhaps only China has successfully applied its own indigenous jet engine to their indigenous fighter jet. India still struggle for it.
The nature of this engine continuously operating at high RPM ( could reach 33,000 RPM or more) to compressed air up to 200 psi or more and burned it in very high temperature ( above 1200 C ) then delivers tens-of-thousands pound of thrust. Not to mentioned it'll be brought turning upside down in high G-force maneuvers by the fighter jet.
It is not just designed with aerodynamically and thermodynamically optimized, but also built in highly precision. Those whom ever has disassembled and reassembled the gas turbine will know how tight are the fit and clearance check at hundreds of sections. Some expert says its precision is equal to swiss-made watches precision, though the size scale of GT is thousands of time from swiss watches.
We also need to have a very reliable control system, especially in controlling the combustion process. Not to mentioned the rotor dynamical behaviour. Even a relatively small vibration increase can eventually damage this high speed engine. It is consider as one of the highest technological achievement of human kind. If a country can master it, it is a prove of their technological advancement and become a distinguished country among others.
I am not a design engineer of gas turbine, only a field service engineer doing the field maintenance, repair, condition monitoring , and troubleshoting and have been in this job for more than 20 years covering industrial gas turbines and aero-derivative gas turbines. Most of the years served with OEM ( Siemens, Alstom, Solar Turbines) and some years served with the user (oil & gas company) and had experienced in early of my career for GT overhaul in gas turbine propulsion MRO facility (Universal Maintenance Center of IPTN, now PT. Nusantara Turbines & Propulsions).
IMHO, from my personal point of view, we can summarized what are the technology challenges in gas turbine design : Material technology and cooling system technology for turbines disks, nozzles, and blades.
Because all aerodynamic and thermodynamic aspects has been highly optimized with state of the art software running in super-computer. The air density can be compressed more and burning in higher temperature , but what kind of materials and how is the effective cooling design work to maintain that materials can withstand the high temperature combustion in a long service periods. These are some limitations to have a more efficient gas turbines. Even the manufacturing techniques of a single blade gas turbine also required high tech metallurgical method. Nowadays 3D printing technology already been introduced, but don't know yet if it can substitute the way of making gas turbine components more reliable or not.
What I want to pinpoint is : we need to start the works in our own gas turbine technology, but it should be by complete engineering disciplines team ( aero-thermodynamical engineering, rotor dynamics engineering, materials technology engineering, combustion engineering, control system engineering, etc).
Start to invest in human capital. Indonesia has ITB whom provide propulsion engineering study program. Perhaps the combination of its mechanical engineering and aeronautical engineering department. Any ITB alumni please correct me if i am wrong.
We also need to send some of the best brain to study abroad in top universities. US, French, Russia, UK are some of the country destination for this study. As an example, UK has Cranfield University-School of Aeronautical and Thermal Process which provide complete set of program study for gas turbines and propulsions technology design. I believe in other countries that I aforementioned has similar program offered.

 

[R4duga]

But for gas turbine manufacturer, especially for aero propulsion, the list only left a few countries. The amount tends to stagnant for decades. Besides the traditional aero GT propulsion maker ( US, UK, French, Russia )

dont forget the ukrainians , china was almost inch to getting that technology from ukraine but was hampered by US.

UPDATE 1-Ukraine president approves sanctions against China's Skyrizon

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy signed a decree on Friday imposing sanctions on Chinese aviation firm Skyrizon, which has sought to acquire control of the Ukrainian aerospace company Motor Sich, a statement said.

www.reuters.com

that's why i really hoping if coastal defense missile plan was continued , we'd buy that Neptune in a bulk and atleast asking motorsich for assistance in developing our own turbojet engine that capable of propelled something weighing around 500-1000 kg atleast in a subsonic speed .

 

[Parry Brima]

The gas turbine technology, be it for aero propulsions (turbo prop, turbo fan, turbo jet) or marine propulsions application, is not a rocket science...in fact, it's more than a rocket science.
We can see how many countries are more and more capable in rocket propulsion for their space program or missile program. We can name it : US, UK, French, Russia, China, India, Japan, South Korea, North Korea, Iran, and so on. The list become more and more in the near future.
But for gas turbine manufacturer, especially for aero propulsion, the list only left a few countries. The amount tends to stagnant for decades. Besides the traditional aero GT propulsion maker ( US, UK, French, Russia ), Perhaps only China has successfully applied its own indigenous jet engine to their indigenous fighter jet. India still struggle for it.
The nature of this engine continuously operating at high RPM ( could reach 33,000 RPM or more) to compressed air up to 200 psi or more and burned it in very high temperature ( above 1200 C ) then delivers tens-of-thousands pound of thrust. Not to mentioned it'll be brought turning upside down in high G-force maneuvers by the fighter jet.
It is not just designed with aerodynamically and thermodynamically optimized, but also built in highly precision. Those whom ever has disassembled and reassembled the gas turbine will know how tight are the fit and clearance check at hundreds of sections. Some expert says its precision is equal to swiss-made watches precision, though the size scale of GT is thousands of time from swiss watches.
We also need to have a very reliable control system, especially in controlling the combustion process. Not to mentioned the rotor dynamical behaviour. Even a relatively small vibration increase can eventually damage this high speed engine. It is consider as one of the highest technological achievement of human kind. If a country can master it, it is a prove of their technological advancement and become a distinguished country among others.
I am not a design engineer of gas turbine, only a field service engineer doing the field maintenance, repair, condition monitoring , and troubleshoting and have been in this job for more than 20 years covering industrial gas turbines and aero-derivative gas turbines. Most of the years served with OEM ( Siemens, Alstom, Solar Turbines) and some years served with the user (oil & gas company) and had experienced in early of my career for GT overhaul in gas turbine propulsion MRO facility (Universal Maintenance Center of IPTN, now PT. Nusantara Turbines & Propulsions).
IMHO, from my personal point of view, we can summarized what are the technology challenges in gas turbine design : Material technology and cooling system technology for turbines disks, nozzles, and blades.
Because all aerodynamic and thermodynamic aspects has been highly optimized with state of the art software running in super-computer. The air density can be compressed more and burning in higher temperature , but what kind of materials and how is the effective cooling design work to maintain that materials can withstand the high temperature combustion in a long service periods. These are some limitations to have a more efficient gas turbines. Even the manufacturing techniques of a single blade gas turbine also required high tech metallurgical method. Nowadays 3D printing technology already been introduced, but don't know yet if it can substitute the way of making gas turbine components more reliable or not.
What I want to pinpoint is : we need to start the works in our own gas turbine technology, but it should be by complete engineering disciplines team ( aero-thermodynamical engineering, rotor dynamics engineering, materials technology engineering, combustion engineering, control system engineering, etc).
Start to invest in human capital. Indonesia has ITB whom provide propulsion engineering study program. Perhaps the combination of its mechanical engineering and aeronautical engineering department. Any ITB alumni please correct me if i am wrong.
We also need to send some of the best brain to study abroad in top universities. US, French, Russia, UK are some of the country destination for this study. As an example, UK has Cranfield University-School of Aeronautical and Thermal Process which provide complete set of program study for gas turbines and propulsions technology design. I believe in other countries that I aforementioned has similar program offered.

How much investment do you reckon we need to build our own jet propulsion industry? I believe our problem hasn't been the human resources. It's the money. Without big potential market projection, any hi-tech expensive project will simply become national pride project a.k.a lighthouse project. We simply can't (or won't) afford it.

Heck, we've even been struggling to meet TNI's minimum demands (MEF) for new fighters/warships/subs/etc.

 

[Zuko]

Just sharing an article on KF-21 I found from The Drive.....(always find them as a good source for layman like me..)

Meet South Korea's New KF-21 "Hawk" Indigenous Fighter

Developed under an ambitious timeline, the fighter will complement F-35s and older fighters as part of a revamped Republic of Korea Air Force.

www.thedrive.com

 

[Indos]

The gas turbine technology, be it for aero propulsions (turbo prop, turbo fan, turbo jet) or marine propulsions application, is not a rocket science...in fact, it's more than a rocket science.
We can see how many countries are more and more capable in rocket propulsion for their space program or missile program. We can name it : US, UK, French, Russia, China, India, Japan, South Korea, North Korea, Iran, and so on. The list become more and more in the near future.
But for gas turbine manufacturer, especially for aero propulsion, the list only left a few countries. The amount tends to stagnant for decades. Besides the traditional aero GT propulsion maker ( US, UK, French, Russia ), Perhaps only China has successfully applied its own indigenous jet engine to their indigenous fighter jet. India still struggle for it.
The nature of this engine continuously operating at high RPM ( could reach 33,000 RPM or more) to compressed air up to 200 psi or more and burned it in very high temperature ( above 1200 C ) then delivers tens-of-thousands pound of thrust. Not to mentioned it'll be brought turning upside down in high G-force maneuvers by the fighter jet.
It is not just designed with aerodynamically and thermodynamically optimized, but also built in highly precision. Those whom ever has disassembled and reassembled the gas turbine will know how tight are the fit and clearance check at hundreds of sections. Some expert says its precision is equal to swiss-made watches precision, though the size scale of GT is thousands of time from swiss watches.
We also need to have a very reliable control system, especially in controlling the combustion process. Not to mentioned the rotor dynamical behaviour. Even a relatively small vibration increase can eventually damage this high speed engine. It is consider as one of the highest technological achievement of human kind. If a country can master it, it is a prove of their technological advancement and become a distinguished country among others.
I am not a design engineer of gas turbine, only a field service engineer doing the field maintenance, repair, condition monitoring , and troubleshoting and have been in this job for more than 20 years covering industrial gas turbines and aero-derivative gas turbines. Most of the years served with OEM ( Siemens, Alstom, Solar Turbines) and some years served with the user (oil & gas company) and had experienced in early of my career for GT overhaul in gas turbine propulsion MRO facility (Universal Maintenance Center of IPTN, now PT. Nusantara Turbines & Propulsions).
IMHO, from my personal point of view, we can summarized what are the technology challenges in gas turbine design : Material technology and cooling system technology for turbines disks, nozzles, and blades.
Because all aerodynamic and thermodynamic aspects has been highly optimized with state of the art software running in super-computer. The air density can be compressed more and burning in higher temperature , but what kind of materials and how is the effective cooling design work to maintain that materials can withstand the high temperature combustion in a long service periods. These are some limitations to have a more efficient gas turbines. Even the manufacturing techniques of a single blade gas turbine also required high tech metallurgical method. Nowadays 3D printing technology already been introduced, but don't know yet if it can substitute the way of making gas turbine components more reliable or not.
What I want to pinpoint is : we need to start the works in our own gas turbine technology, but it should be by complete engineering disciplines team ( aero-thermodynamical engineering, rotor dynamics engineering, materials technology engineering, combustion engineering, control system engineering, etc).
Start to invest in human capital. Indonesia has ITB whom provide propulsion engineering study program. Perhaps the combination of its mechanical engineering and aeronautical engineering department. Any ITB alumni please correct me if i am wrong.
We also need to send some of the best brain to study abroad in top universities. US, French, Russia, UK are some of the country destination for this study. As an example, UK has Cranfield University-School of Aeronautical and Thermal Process which provide complete set of program study for gas turbines and propulsions technology design. I believe in other countries that I aforementioned has similar program offered.

Bro, you need to make spaces between paragraphs for that long written to make people here get easy to read your writing

 

[Indos]

How much investment do you reckon we need to build our own jet propulsion industry? I believe our problem hasn't been the human resources. It's the money. Without big potential market projection, any hi-tech expensive project will simply become national pride project a.k.a lighthouse project. We simply can't (or won't) afford it.

Heck, we've even been struggling to meet TNI's minimum demands (MEF) for new fighters/warships/subs/etc.

We need to have 4-5 % of defense budget for R&D. Singapore has it around 3 percent. No need to be so hurry in completing MEF, that is not a holy book. Just think we are projected to have 4 trillion USD nominal GDP in 2034 by respected CEBR.

You can see India now only has 2.7 trillion USD of nominal GDP for comparison.

 

[HellFireIndo]

Indeed that any state affairs may have long term commitment needed for it to succeed, yet it is also what i think hampered our effort the most many times. We need to reform our budget and policy implementation system, yearly spending just doesn't cut it, on top of that leadership change also means policy change, making long-term and wide scale programs like this more difficult to manage, so many confusion. "Flexible" ministerial leadership can also means 'inconsistent policy", and budget control can also means "crippled programs".

Prabowo doing what he did so far is still kinda good, but we havent received the news of the final edict, which one of the programs are to be prioritized?. Besides, this system flaw cannot be fixed in a single term, best is 2 terms of office by the same minister, but this is unlikely was Prabowo might prepare for his next Presidential campaign. We wasted precious time for MEF, causing the current term effort to coincide with other big state projects one of them is Covid-19 mitigation which took whopping 47 billion USD.

 

[Stuka Dive]

Bro, you need to make spaces between paragraphs for that long written to make people here get easy to read your writing

Apologize for the inconvenience, my bad...will do next time

 

[trishna_amrta]

The gas turbine technology, be it for aero propulsions (turbo prop, turbo fan, turbo jet) or marine propulsions application, is not a rocket science...in fact, it's more than a rocket science.
We can see how many countries are more and more capable in rocket propulsion for their space program or missile program. We can name it : US, UK, French, Russia, China, India, Japan, South Korea, North Korea, Iran, and so on. The list become more and more in the near future.
But for gas turbine manufacturer, especially for aero propulsion, the list only left a few countries. The amount tends to stagnant for decades. Besides the traditional aero GT propulsion maker ( US, UK, French, Russia ), Perhaps only China has successfully applied its own indigenous jet engine to their indigenous fighter jet. India still struggle for it.
The nature of this engine continuously operating at high RPM ( could reach 33,000 RPM or more) to compressed air up to 200 psi or more and burned it in very high temperature ( above 1200 C ) then delivers tens-of-thousands pound of thrust. Not to mentioned it'll be brought turning upside down in high G-force maneuvers by the fighter jet.
It is not just designed with aerodynamically and thermodynamically optimized, but also built in highly precision. Those whom ever has disassembled and reassembled the gas turbine will know how tight are the fit and clearance check at hundreds of sections. Some expert says its precision is equal to swiss-made watches precision, though the size scale of GT is thousands of time from swiss watches.
We also need to have a very reliable control system, especially in controlling the combustion process. Not to mentioned the rotor dynamical behaviour. Even a relatively small vibration increase can eventually damage this high speed engine. It is consider as one of the highest technological achievement of human kind. If a country can master it, it is a prove of their technological advancement and become a distinguished country among others.
I am not a design engineer of gas turbine, only a field service engineer doing the field maintenance, repair, condition monitoring , and troubleshoting and have been in this job for more than 20 years covering industrial gas turbines and aero-derivative gas turbines. Most of the years served with OEM ( Siemens, Alstom, Solar Turbines) and some years served with the user (oil & gas company) and had experienced in early of my career for GT overhaul in gas turbine propulsion MRO facility (Universal Maintenance Center of IPTN, now PT. Nusantara Turbines & Propulsions).
IMHO, from my personal point of view, we can summarized what are the technology challenges in gas turbine design : Material technology and cooling system technology for turbines disks, nozzles, and blades.
Because all aerodynamic and thermodynamic aspects has been highly optimized with state of the art software running in super-computer. The air density can be compressed more and burning in higher temperature , but what kind of materials and how is the effective cooling design work to maintain that materials can withstand the high temperature combustion in a long service periods. These are some limitations to have a more efficient gas turbines. Even the manufacturing techniques of a single blade gas turbine also required high tech metallurgical method. Nowadays 3D printing technology already been introduced, but don't know yet if it can substitute the way of making gas turbine components more reliable or not.
What I want to pinpoint is : we need to start the works in our own gas turbine technology, but it should be by complete engineering disciplines team ( aero-thermodynamical engineering, rotor dynamics engineering, materials technology engineering, combustion engineering, control system engineering, etc).
Start to invest in human capital. Indonesia has ITB whom provide propulsion engineering study program. Perhaps the combination of its mechanical engineering and aeronautical engineering department. Any ITB alumni please correct me if i am wrong.
We also need to send some of the best brain to study abroad in top universities. US, French, Russia, UK are some of the country destination for this study. As an example, UK has Cranfield University-School of Aeronautical and Thermal Process which provide complete set of program study for gas turbines and propulsions technology design. I believe in other countries that I aforementioned has similar program offered.

Well said indeed I'm really glad when we have more poster with actual real world industrial experience and / or end user experience.

 

[R4duga]

I am not a design engineer of gas turbine, only a field service engineer doing the field maintenance, repair, condition monitoring , and troubleshoting and have been in this job for more than 20 years covering industrial gas turbines and aero-derivative gas turbines. Most of the years served with OEM ( Siemens, Alstom, Solar Turbines) and some years served with the user (oil & gas company) and had experienced in early of my career for GT overhaul in gas turbine propulsion MRO facility (Universal Maintenance Center of IPTN, now PT. Nusantara Turbines & Propulsions).

why do i feel like i know who is this ??? , i also see sudden influx of new indonesian member here , did the old kaskus senior just recently find out about this forum ?

 

[trishna_amrta]

Nowadays 3D printing technology already been introduced, but don't know yet if it can substitute the way of making gas turbine components more reliable or not.

Additive manufacturing still haven't reached that level yet. Maybe in the next 20 - 30 years or so, but I don't see it happening within the next 20 years

 

[Parry Brima]

We need to have 4-5 % of defense budget for R&D. Singapore has it around 3 percent. No need to be so hurry in completing MEF, that is not a holy book. Just think we are projected to have 4 trillion USD nominal GDP in 2034 by respected CEBR.

You can see India now only has 2.7 trillion USD of nominal GDP for comparison.

It turns even bleaker if you include GDP and particularly India into discussion

In the last 20 years, India's military spending has been around 2.4%-3% GDP. Indonesia? 0.6%-0.9% GDP.

This is despite the fact that in the last 10 years the gov debt to GDP ratio for India has been around 65%-69%, while Indonesia only around 23%-40%

How come our leaders (plural) have been reluctant to spend more? Are they cowards, or simply because they see what we don't?

(all data from Sipri and Trading Economics)

 

[Stuka Dive]

How much investment do you reckon we need to build our own jet propulsion industry? I believe our problem hasn't been the human resources. It's the money. Without big potential market projection, any hi-tech expensive project will simply become national pride project a.k.a lighthouse project. We simply can't (or won't) afford it.

Heck, we've even been struggling to meet TNI's minimum demands (MEF) for new fighters/warships/subs/etc.

We can do similar like Japan has did. Japan through its IHI group (Ishikawajima-Harima Industries) has manufactured by license some of US fighter jet engines for their own fleet.

Other Japan giant corporations like Hitachi has license from GE Power for power plant gas turbines, Mitsubishi has license from Westinghouse, and so does Kawasaki.

Japan, as close ally of US is very important on geo strategic point of view. It bordered with eastern front of communist countries ( North Korea, China, and in the past, Soviet Union) and Russia. Off course US approach to Japan is also special. Include it access to US cutting-edge technology such as Gas Turbine and jet propulsions.

But we also not a country without any geo-strategical importance for US, especially in the LCS issue. We also bought hundreds of Boeing commercial planes plus another hundreds of Airbus commercial planes in recent years ( mostly procured by Lion Air Group). If our administration can play an elegant role and approach to US and western country, we can also propose to become one of the global production chain for, at least, jet engines of commercial planes. Bring in the Lion Air into our long term strategy for ToT of Jet engines.

Lion air together with Garuda and other national airlines, all together can have more than 1000 jet engines population. Just make a bidding to jet engine's OEM ( Rolls Royce, P&W, Snecma, etc) to provide the engines for all the national fleet together with all long term service agreement ( MRO services plus a manufacturing license of the engine) in the Indonesian's soil. Since we don't have grand strategy for jet engine manufacturing and design, we've missed this huge potential from our own aerospace industries. Not to mentioned the winner OEM could also be propulsion supplier of our N-219 and future N-245, R-80 fleets (with note that engine is licensed to Indonesia). we have strong bargaining position actually, if we sit together, have a coffee, then plan together for jet engines roadmap.

You cannot just ask for fighter jet propulsion ToT to the French while you only purchase a few of Rafale fighter. Engine's MRO still possible, as the Dassault reps had visited PT. NTP in Bandung. (Note that PT NTP is only MRO facility just like GMF, not propulsions manufacturing facility). Even though we purchase 36 to 48 Rafale I still doubt French will allow us to have total manufacturing facility in here. If double the amount, could be. But, the investment to have jet engines manufacturing facility must be high only to support, lets say, 100 Rafale fighter.

Anyway, to learn how to make fighter jet propulsion is a super giant technological leap. We never manufactured any commercial jet engines or even gas turbines for power plant, suddenly we dream about to make our own fighter jet engine propulsion.

The more realistic way is the one that I wrote above, to have a licensed jet engine propulsion for commercial fleet. And the more realistic strategy for me is still the BJH concept of industrial transformation. In my opinion, there is no Pro-Habibie or Anti-Habibie. He is not just technological-wise, but also industrial-wise. Which concept is the most realistic? we don't have the capability of China and Israel in doing industrial & technological espionage for reverse engineering nor have privilege for USA's high technology access like Japan and South Korea.

To start with our own R&D would be much time consuming and as BJH says , will only make "re-invention of the wheel". Once again, please have a time to read below link. It is not a dream-boy concept, it was written by the man who knew precisely what the advance technology is and how do we, as a less developed country, can make shortcut to master it in a most realistic way.

Warisan Habibie dan Peningkatan Kapabilitas Industri Pertahanan Nasional

Warisan Habibie dan Peningkatan Kapabilitas Industri Pertahanan Nasional - Pustaka - TNI Angkatan Udara

tni-au.mil.id

Invest in Human capital is a must, not just count on Indonesia's Diaspora worldwide. The license products and manufacturing technology should go in parallel with government organized R&D and human capital investment for many generations to come. We will need regeneration of scientist and engineers for this long run race. That's for sure.

 

[Indos]

We can do similar like Japan has did. Japan through its IHI group (Ishikawajima-Harima Industries) has manufactured by license some of US fighter jet engines for their own fleet.

Other Japan giant corporations like Hitachi has license from GE Power for power plant gas turbines, Mitsubishi has license from Westinghouse, and so does Kawasaki.

Japan, as close ally of US is very important on geo strategic point of view. It bordered with eastern front of communist countries ( North Korea, China, and in the past, Soviet Union) and Russia. Off course US approach to Japan is also special. Include it access to US cutting-edge technology such as Gas Turbine and jet propulsions.

But we also not a country without any geo-strategical importance for US, especially in the LCS issue. We also bought hundreds of Boeing commercial planes plus another hundreds of Airbus commercial planes in recent years ( mostly procured by Lion Air Group). If our administration can play an elegant role and approach to US and western country, we can also propose to become one of the global production chain for, at least, jet engines of commercial planes. Bring in the Lion Air into our long term strategy for ToT of Jet engines.

Lion air together with Garuda and other national airlines, all together can have more than 1000 jet engines population. Just make a bidding to jet engine's OEM ( Rolls Royce, P&W, Snecma, etc) to provide the engines for all the national fleet together with all long term service agreement ( MRO services plus a manufacturing license of the engine) in the Indonesian's soil. Since we don't have grand strategy for jet engine manufacturing and design, we've missed this huge potential from our own aerospace industries. Not to mentioned the winner OEM could also be propulsion supplier of our N-219 and future N-245, R-80 fleets (with note that engine is licensed to Indonesia). we have strong bargaining position actually, if we sit together, have a coffee, then plan together for jet engines roadmap.

You cannot just ask for fighter jet propulsion ToT to the French while you only purchase a few of Rafale fighter. Engine's MRO still possible, as the Dassault reps had visited PT. NTP in Bandung. (Note that PT NTP is only MRO facility just like GMF, not propulsions manufacturing facility). Even though we purchase 36 to 48 Rafale I still doubt French will allow us to have total manufacturing facility in here. If double the amount, could be. But, the investment to have jet engines manufacturing facility must be high only to support, lets say, 100 Rafale fighter.

Anyway, to learn how to make fighter jet propulsion is a super giant technological leap. We never manufactured any commercial jet engines or even gas turbines for power plant, suddenly we dream about to make our own fighter jet engine propulsion.

The more realistic way is the one that I wrote above, to have a licensed jet engine propulsion for commercial fleet. And the more realistic strategy for me is still the BJH concept of industrial transformation. In my opinion, there is no Pro-Habibie or Anti-Habibie. He is not just technological-wise, but also industrial-wise. Which concept is the most realistic? we don't have the capability of China and Israel in doing industrial & technological espionage for reverse engineering nor have privilege for USA's high technology access like Japan and South Korea.

To start with our own R&D would be much time consuming and as BJH says , will only make "re-invention of the wheel". Once again, please have a time to read below link. It is not a dream-boy concept, it was written by the man who knew precisely what the advance technology is and how do we, as a less developed country, can make shortcut to master it in a most realistic way.

Warisan Habibie dan Peningkatan Kapabilitas Industri Pertahanan Nasional

Warisan Habibie dan Peningkatan Kapabilitas Industri Pertahanan Nasional - Pustaka - TNI Angkatan Udara

tni-au.mil.id

Invest in Human capital is a must, not just count on Indonesia's Diaspora worldwide. The license products and manufacturing technology should go in parallel with government organized R&D and human capital investment for many generations to come. We will need regeneration of scientist and engineers for this long run race. That's for sure.

We did make gas turbine for small power plant, it is BPPT research and design and PT Nusantara Turbin which made it

 

[Indos]

Turbine component for even big Power plant is made by PT Barata Indonesia, another state owned company, so we can easily make some kind of cooperation between them.

 

[Stuka Dive]

We did make gas turbine for small power plant, it is BPPT research and design and PT Nusantara Turbin which made it

Do you mean the one with cooperation with Siemens? or I maybe missed some of NTP activities.
My current direct superior was ex-NTP (and was one of my instructor at NTP) and he was involved in the project with Siemens in the past. If this project is that you mean , as far as i know NTP only became power plant system integrator of combined cycle power plant using aero gas turbine ( I forgot the engine type, perhaps P&W's JT8D ) and then coupled with boiler then the steam feed into Siemens steam turbine. Thus, the gas turbines is not our own indigenous engine.
Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Var Dracon]

Turbine component for even big Power plant is made by PT Barata Indonesia, another state owned company, so we can easily make some kind of cooperation between them.

View attachment 17976

What turbine is this? Gas turbine? Water turbine? Steam turbine? Air/wind turbine?

These types are differed in construction and material, also in dimension (as this was for generator it would be big). Gas turbine for vehicle is different matter.

 

[Stuka Dive]

Turbine component for even big Power plant is made by PT Barata Indonesia, another state owned company, so we can easily make some kind of cooperation between them.

View attachment 17976

This is what i said before, all the national stakeholders for gas turbine users and manufacturing plants, governmental researcher, universities, KKIP, etc... must have coordination and roadmap together (organized by R&D minister) in order to be able in designing and manufacturing our own gas turbine, and later on, our own fighter jet propulsion engines.

There at least 3 division that the roadmap can be works in parallel and support each other:
1. Power plant and industrial gas turbines
2. Commercial jet engines (Turbo prop, turbo fan, turbo jet)
3. Military jet engines for cargo planes ( CN-235, N-245, R-80) and for fighter jet.

 

[Indos]

What turbine is this? Gas turbine? Water turbine? Steam turbine? Air/wind turbine?

These types are differed in construction and material, also in dimension (as this was for generator it would be big). Gas turbine for vehicle is different matter.

I am referring to Stuika post who said Indonesian cannot even make small gas turbin for power plant

 

[Indos]

Do you mean the one with cooperation with Siemens? or I maybe missed some of NTP activities.
My current direct superior was ex-NTP (and was one of my instructor at NTP) and he was involved in the project with Siemens in the past. If this project is that you mean , as far as i know NTP only became power plant system integrator of combined cycle power plant using aero gas turbine ( I forgot the engine type, perhaps P&W's JT8D ) and then coupled with boiler then the steam feed into Siemens steam turbine. Thus, the gas turbines is not our own indigenous engine.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Nope. It is BPPT program, not Siemens. BPPT research and design it and then NTP built it for them