Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[archwings]

There is an alternative for single engine's ToT other than Grippen E: The India's LM F-21 program. If we can bargain to US for ToT, perhaps we can ask this F-21 program which apparently been abandoned by India. The F-21 is the F-16 accustomed to India's requirements for single engine fighter. It has basic design from F-16. Thus we have been very familiar with these F-16's technology, MRO, and spare parts. And to learn the design engineering and manufacturing from the platform that we've been known very well is more realistic for a "start-up" country like us. The commonality and interchangeability with existing F-16 technology and spare parts are also supported by worldwide established F-16 ecosystem.

In my opinion, For more than 70 units to be purchased, LM will consider this option

wouldn't such decision disrupt our IFX program?

 

[this is crunch]

wouldn't such decision disrupt our IFX program?

how so?

 

[archwings]

how so?

I'm pretty sure PT DI can't handle two massive identical project (fighter) at the same time.

 

[Madokafc]

I'm pretty sure PT DI can't handle two massive identical project (fighter) at the same time.

PT DI can't handle much complex project beyond what is already in their portofolio to begin with and what they already doing is not quite right at several parameter if we are looking from business model and profit oriented market scheme they are doing

 

[kooppyyy]

rumor that is, RAF are renting out (possibly sale) some of their MRTT. if we interested on that.

From what I remember, RAF actually rent its MRTT fleet exclusively from Air Tanker Service with some that is applicable to be rented out to a third-party (usually to Thomas Cook airline), but these ones are the without the Boom-tail refueler, only the wing mounted drogue-pod.

 

[Parry Brima]

Not always been the money. Most of the time we take in more then we can chew.

If you want to chew more, you simply have to invest more.

We can always afford time, we also have enough brains to learn. What we didn't have was money, but now we do.

There is an alternative for single engine's ToT other than Grippen E: The India's LM F-21 program. If we can bargain to US for ToT, perhaps we can ask this F-21 program which apparently been abandoned by India. The F-21 is the F-16 accustomed to India's requirements for single engine fighter. It has basic design from F-16. Thus we have been very familiar with these F-16's technology, MRO, and spare parts. And to learn the design engineering and manufacturing from the platform that we've been known very well is more realistic for a "start-up" country like us. The commonality and interchangeability with existing F-16 technology and spare parts are also supported by worldwide established F-16 ecosystem.

In my opinion, For more than 70 units to be purchased, LM will consider this option

Yes, this is what the Indonesian forumers always said, that if we buy enough then LM will offer us production license for F-16V. Unfortunately there's no such offer until now. MoD have to insist this as the total package*.

*Along with F-35

 

[Lordimperator]

MoD have to insist this as the total package*.

*Along with F-35

Hoaa, MoD quite persistence in negotiation . i could imagine f35 AURI flying side by side with KFX in the next 20 years.

 

[FoodSoldier]

PT DI can't handle much complex project beyond what is already in their portofolio to begin with and what they already doing is not quite right at several parameter if we are looking from business model and profit oriented market scheme they are doing

Remember that defence industry is a monopsoni.

Like what PAL hve been doing, PTDI can also expand their capacity and getting help from financial institution to boost their CAPEX and OPEX, as long as the user (ie TNI AU, the single buyer in monopsonical industry structure) commited to purchase a certain number of airframe that achieve economies of scale (which ensure PTDI’s return on investment and creditor’s approval).

How many airframe that we need to make such project to be economically viable? It needs a detail calculation, but looking into similar project in India and Brazil, at least TNI AU need to order 36-48 unit of F-21 (or Gripen) to PTDI in the time span of 4 years (12 unit per year).

This project structure can also be applied to IFX project simultaneously. Kertajati has plenty of space for these two projects. State owned banks also has plenty of liquidity to finance these projects as long as TNI AU/MoD commited for a longterm contract.

in term of ToT, we can get different key technology from the two projects (ie airframe design from IFX; system design/integration from F-21/Gripen).

 

[Lordimperator]

TNI AU/MoD commited for a longterm contract.

Which is rare

 

[Soman45]

Indonesia approves USD700 million in foreign loans for aerial tanker buy

The Indonesian Ministry of Finance (MoF) has granted approval for the country to obtain up to USD700 million in foreign loans to procure two aerial tankers for the...

www.janes.com

This was revealed in a notice issued by the MoF on 26 April listing a total of 31 Ministry of Defence (MoD) programmes for which funding through foreign loans has been approved.
Issued after consultations with the MoD and the Ministry of National Development Planning (Kementerian Perencanaan Pembangunan Nasional: BAPPENAS), the list, which was initially classified, has been provided to Janes by a government source. The document also shows that a total of 56 requests for foreign funding were rejected.

Now this....i don't know why but it gives me anxiety (ya Allah i hope it's not the big tickets)

 

[Umigami]

This was revealed in a notice issued by the MoF on 26 April listing a total of 31 Ministry of Defence (MoD) programmes for which funding through foreign loans has been approved.
Issued after consultations with the MoD and the Ministry of National Development Planning (Kementerian Perencanaan Pembangunan Nasional: BAPPENAS), the list, which was initially classified, has been provided to Janes by a government source. The document also shows that a total of 56 requests for foreign funding were rejected.

Now this....i don't know why but it gives me anxiety (ya Allah i hope it's not the big tickets)

It's 26 April document. Far from this hingar-bingar 1700 trillion mega debt and Rafale-Fremm hype.

 

[Madokafc]

Remember that defence industry is a monopsoni.

Like what PAL hve been doing, PTDI can also expand their capacity and getting help from financial institution to boost their CAPEX and OPEX, as long as the user (ie TNI AU, the single buyer in monopsonical industry structure) commited to purchase a certain number of airframe that achieve economies of scale (which ensure PTDI’s return on investment and creditor’s approval).

How many airframe that we need to make such project to be economically viable? It needs a detail calculation, but looking into similar project in India and Brazil, at least TNI AU need to order 36-48 unit of F-21 (or Gripen) to PTDI in the time span of 4 years (12 unit per year).

This project structure can also be applied to IFX project simultaneously. Kertajati has plenty of space for these two projects. State owned banks also has plenty of liquidity to finance these projects as long as TNI AU/MoD commited for a longterm contract.

in term of ToT, we can get different key technology from the two projects (ie airframe design from IFX; system design/integration from F-21/Gripen).

They want to nurturing other companies in near future

 

[Madokafc]

Pakar soal Jet KF-X/IF-X RI-Korsel di Antara Pusaran AS-China

Kepala kajian ASEAN dari KNDA mengatakan Korsel tak memiliki kerja sama lain dalam hal produksi alutsista selain dengan Indonesia untuk jet tempur.

www.cnnindonesia.com

 

[Umigami]

They want to nurturing other companies in near future

Which one?
SAAB or LM ?

 

[Madokafc]

Which one?
SAAB or LM ?

GMF and possibly Pelita

 

[trishna_amrta]

new airframes kah?

Most likely it will be a used airframe, with Garuda stock being one of them. The selling point of A330 MRTT is about using existing stock airframe rather than a new dedicated one

 

[Van Kravchenko]

Most likely it will be a used airframe, with Garuda stock being one of them. The selling point of A330 MRTT is about using existing stock airframe rather than a new dedicated one

Learn frong Aussie, they got $403+- million for 2 repurpouse A220 to build as MRTT.

If we look at the loan, an if it will be used airframe, then price of airframe included in $700 million?

 

[FoodSoldier]

GMF and possibly Pelita

GMF should be a better gamble.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Kertajati has plenty of space for these two projects. State owned banks also has plenty of liquidity to finance these projects as long as TNI AU/MoD commited for a longterm contract.

Working space is easy to get, project management on the other hand isn't.

 

[Panca]

C-RAM SkyKnight ?