Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

archwings

Active member
Messages
41
Reactions
63
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
There is an alternative for single engine's ToT other than Grippen E: The India's LM F-21 program. If we can bargain to US for ToT, perhaps we can ask this F-21 program which apparently been abandoned by India. The F-21 is the F-16 accustomed to India's requirements for single engine fighter. It has basic design from F-16. Thus we have been very familiar with these F-16's technology, MRO, and spare parts. And to learn the design engineering and manufacturing from the platform that we've been known very well is more realistic for a "start-up" country like us. The commonality and interchangeability with existing F-16 technology and spare parts are also supported by worldwide established F-16 ecosystem.

In my opinion, For more than 70 units to be purchased, LM will consider this option
wouldn't such decision disrupt our IFX program?
 

Madokafc

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
5,913
Reactions
4 10,053
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
I'm pretty sure PT DI can't handle two massive identical project (fighter) at the same time.

PT DI can't handle much complex project beyond what is already in their portofolio to begin with and what they already doing is not quite right at several parameter if we are looking from business model and profit oriented market scheme they are doing
 

kooppyyy

Active member
Messages
95
Reactions
118
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
rumor that is, RAF are renting out (possibly sale) some of their MRTT. if we interested on that.
From what I remember, RAF actually rent its MRTT fleet exclusively from Air Tanker Service with some that is applicable to be rented out to a third-party (usually to Thomas Cook airline), but these ones are the without the Boom-tail refueler, only the wing mounted drogue-pod.
 

Parry Brima

Contributor
Messages
982
Reactions
1 1,057
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Not always been the money. Most of the time we take in more then we can chew.

If you want to chew more, you simply have to invest more.

We can always afford time, we also have enough brains to learn. What we didn't have was money, but now we do.

There is an alternative for single engine's ToT other than Grippen E: The India's LM F-21 program. If we can bargain to US for ToT, perhaps we can ask this F-21 program which apparently been abandoned by India. The F-21 is the F-16 accustomed to India's requirements for single engine fighter. It has basic design from F-16. Thus we have been very familiar with these F-16's technology, MRO, and spare parts. And to learn the design engineering and manufacturing from the platform that we've been known very well is more realistic for a "start-up" country like us. The commonality and interchangeability with existing F-16 technology and spare parts are also supported by worldwide established F-16 ecosystem.

In my opinion, For more than 70 units to be purchased, LM will consider this option

Yes, this is what the Indonesian forumers always said, that if we buy enough then LM will offer us production license for F-16V. Unfortunately there's no such offer until now. MoD have to insist this as the total package*.

*Along with F-35 ;)
 

Lordimperator

Experienced member
Moderator
Indonesia Correspondent
Indonesia Moderator
Messages
4,980
Reactions
3 2,843
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
MoD have to insist this as the total package*.

*Along with F-35 ;)
Hoaa, MoD quite persistence in negotiation 😅. i could imagine f35 AURI flying side by side with KFX in the next 20 years.
 

FoodSoldier

Active member
Messages
67
Reactions
93
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
PT DI can't handle much complex project beyond what is already in their portofolio to begin with and what they already doing is not quite right at several parameter if we are looking from business model and profit oriented market scheme they are doing
Remember that defence industry is a monopsoni.

Like what PAL hve been doing, PTDI can also expand their capacity and getting help from financial institution to boost their CAPEX and OPEX, as long as the user (ie TNI AU, the single buyer in monopsonical industry structure) commited to purchase a certain number of airframe that achieve economies of scale (which ensure PTDI’s return on investment and creditor’s approval).

How many airframe that we need to make such project to be economically viable? It needs a detail calculation, but looking into similar project in India and Brazil, at least TNI AU need to order 36-48 unit of F-21 (or Gripen) to PTDI in the time span of 4 years (12 unit per year).

This project structure can also be applied to IFX project simultaneously. Kertajati has plenty of space for these two projects. State owned banks also has plenty of liquidity to finance these projects as long as TNI AU/MoD commited for a longterm contract.

in term of ToT, we can get different key technology from the two projects (ie airframe design from IFX; system design/integration from F-21/Gripen).
 

Soman45

Well-known member
Messages
351
Reactions
674
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
This was revealed in a notice issued by the MoF on 26 April listing a total of 31 Ministry of Defence (MoD) programmes for which funding through foreign loans has been approved.
Issued after consultations with the MoD and the Ministry of National Development Planning (Kementerian Perencanaan Pembangunan Nasional: BAPPENAS), the list, which was initially classified, has been provided to Janes by a government source. The document also shows that a total of 56 requests for foreign funding were rejected.

Now this....i don't know why but it gives me anxiety (ya Allah i hope it's not the big tickets)
 

Umigami

Experienced member
Moderator
Indonesia Moderator
Messages
6,396
Reactions
5 5,218
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
This was revealed in a notice issued by the MoF on 26 April listing a total of 31 Ministry of Defence (MoD) programmes for which funding through foreign loans has been approved.
Issued after consultations with the MoD and the Ministry of National Development Planning (Kementerian Perencanaan Pembangunan Nasional: BAPPENAS), the list, which was initially classified, has been provided to Janes by a government source. The document also shows that a total of 56 requests for foreign funding were rejected.

Now this....i don't know why but it gives me anxiety (ya Allah i hope it's not the big tickets)
It's 26 April document. Far from this hingar-bingar 1700 trillion mega debt and Rafale-Fremm hype.
 

Madokafc

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
5,913
Reactions
4 10,053
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Remember that defence industry is a monopsoni.

Like what PAL hve been doing, PTDI can also expand their capacity and getting help from financial institution to boost their CAPEX and OPEX, as long as the user (ie TNI AU, the single buyer in monopsonical industry structure) commited to purchase a certain number of airframe that achieve economies of scale (which ensure PTDI’s return on investment and creditor’s approval).

How many airframe that we need to make such project to be economically viable? It needs a detail calculation, but looking into similar project in India and Brazil, at least TNI AU need to order 36-48 unit of F-21 (or Gripen) to PTDI in the time span of 4 years (12 unit per year).

This project structure can also be applied to IFX project simultaneously. Kertajati has plenty of space for these two projects. State owned banks also has plenty of liquidity to finance these projects as long as TNI AU/MoD commited for a longterm contract.

in term of ToT, we can get different key technology from the two projects (ie airframe design from IFX; system design/integration from F-21/Gripen).

They want to nurturing other companies in near future
 

Van Kravchenko

Contributor
Indonesia Correspondent
Messages
1,285
Reactions
2 872
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Most likely it will be a used airframe, with Garuda stock being one of them. The selling point of A330 MRTT is about using existing stock airframe rather than a new dedicated one
Learn frong Aussie, they got $403+- million for 2 repurpouse A220 to build as MRTT.

If we look at the loan, an if it will be used airframe, then price of airframe included in $700 million?
 

Panca

Committed member
Messages
244
Reactions
182
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Screenshot_20210622_155612.jpg


C-RAM SkyKnight ?
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom