TR Air Defence Programs

[Tornadoss]

İt makes more complicated. İf Siper Block 1 exist and could be quadpacked why will you need G40?
Why they are improving G40?

Gurcan Okumus said that there is technology but there is no request yet form Navy/SSB to materialize the G-40 and it's on hold. So most likely it won't turn into product.

 

[UkroTurk]

Gurcan Okumus said that there is technology but there is no request yet form Navy/SSB to materialize the G-40 and it's on hold. So most likely it won't turn into product.

Could we assume Hisar O+ RF( siper block 1 without booster) could be quadpacked and Turkish Navy will use it instead of ESSM?

IMO Siper block 1 (with booster ) won't be mass produced. We will see Siper Block 2 in navy and in the ground SAM systems.

Still i don't understand how they could quadpacked Hisar0+RF for hot launch.

 

[NitricAcid]

Isrealis Are Always Ahead Of Game

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1669051950850007070

 

[Huelague]

Isrealis Are Always Ahead Of Game

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1669051950850007070

Only if you believe they are the chosen people. Anything else is a myth.

 

[UkroTurk]

@Yasar

Dear what is your opinion about 30x173mm smart ammunition ?

The ammunition could be used in Turkish warship against Cruise missiles?:
(162x1,24g tungsten subprojectiles could stop?)
"The alternative name of this ammunition is KE-TF. Its a time fused projectile that uses a small explosive charge of 0.5g to eject 162 cylindrical subprojectiles made out of 1.24g of tungsten. The timed fuse is programmed at the muzzle of the gun to explode infront of the target and shower it in subprojectiles. It flies at 1075 m/s just like the HEI-T"
This turret weights just 2.5 tons

Here is the 35mm smart ammunition:
"Each round disperses 152 small tungsten projectiles weighing 3.3 grams (0.12 oz) each to form a lethal cone-shaped cloud to strike the incoming target."
But it weights 4.5 ton.

Look even single burrel Göker how bulky is.

Wouldn't be great 30*173mm Göker for our frigates?

 

[Afif]

@UkroTurk Gokdeniz already uses Aselsan's 35m ATOM smart ammunition.

 

[UkroTurk]

@UkroTurk Gokdeniz already uses Aselsan's 35m ATOM smart ammunition.

So what? Do you think i didn't know?

@Yasar instead of 35mm , 30mm Göker wouldn't be more compact as well as effective?

 

[Afif]

So what? Do you think i didn't know?

Then what is the point of proposing Goker for frigates when it already has Gokdeniz?



Edit-

instead of 35mm , 30mm Göker wouldn't be more compact as well as effective?

Did they develop 30mm version of Göker yet?

 

[Heartbang]

Isrealis Are Always Ahead Of Game

IDK man, looks like vaporware to me

 

[Afif]

idk man, looks like vaporware to me

Wait until the air show starts. (Let’s see what product they unveil) Even without that, current David's sling should be quite capable against Russian/Iranian 'hypersonic' weapons.

 

[zio]

Then what is the point of proposing Goker for frigates when it already has Gokdeniz?



Edit-


Did they develop 30mm version of Göker yet?

The point is göker can be used on both side of ship so it can be fired at the same time on both sides,so the ship become more resistant to multible attacks,the other point is göker canbe used at more fire angle than gökdeniz this also gives immunity to high angle attacks.If the fire rate of 500/dk is enough double göker is better than single gökdeniz

 

[Heartbang]

Even without that, current David's sling should be quite capable against Russian/Iranian 'hypersonic' weapons.

That would be due to the inadequacy of the Russo-Iranian "hypersonics", not because of the Israeli ingenuity.

 

[Heartbang]

Do we know the gun barrel traverse angle of GOKDENIZ CIWS?

 

[UkroTurk]

The point is göker can be used on both side of ship so it can be fired at the same time on both sides,so the ship become more resistant to multible attacks,the other point is göker canbe used at more fire angle than gökdeniz this also gives immunity to high angle attacks.If the fire rate of 500/dk is enough double göker is better than single gökdeniz

Current Gökdeniz even Göker systems are heavy and bulky. They engage too much space on the ship.


Imagine as if Göker used 30x173cal smart ammunition, the gun system would be lighter and more compact.

Again imagine as if Istif Class Frigates had:

Port and starboard: 2 X 30mm Göker
FORE and AFT : 2 X LEVENT


And 8 cell VLS

 

[Era_shield]

Current Gökdeniz even Göker systems are heavy and bulky. They engage too much space on the ship.


Imagine as if Göker used 30x173cal smart ammunition, the gun system would be lighter and more compact.
View attachment 58435

Again imagine as if Istif Class Frigates had:

Port and starboard: 2 X 30mm Göker
FORE and AFT : 2 X LEVENT


And 8 cell VLS

35mm ATOM/AHEAD type munitions are already too small to be effective against some threats, which is why we are still putting Phalanx on new ships. If anything we should move to 40mm ATOM or larger.

 

[TheInsider]

30mm airburst ammo has limited stopping power and it is more effective against infantry and smaller drones. It also has a shorter range.
30mm has an effective range of 2000m, a nominal range of 3000m, and a maximum range of 4000m. 35mm has an effective range of 4000m.

USA 30 mm (1.2") Bushmaster II Mark 46 Mod 1 and 40 mm (1.57") Bushmaster II - NavWeaps

www.navweaps.com

Oerlikon GDF - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[AzeriTank]

So what? Do you think i didn't know?

@Yasar instead of 35mm , 30mm Göker wouldn't be more compact as well as effective?

If 30mm hits the target from 3km away, 35mm hits from 4km and with supersonic antiship missiles(even hypersonic) thats very important.
Also, i believe Goker has higher(around 90 degree) elevation that Gokdeniz doesnt have because of design differences. That 90 degree is important for cruise missiles that goes to top attack mode at the end.

 

[AzeriTank]

He says its bulky, of course its bulky, you store more than 35mm ammunition inside, the more you have, longer you are safe as reloading it means you are defenseless. Thats the only advantage of 30mm, but we talk about a ship that has enough space

 

[Yasar_TR]

So what? Do you think i didn't know?

@Yasar instead of 35mm , 30mm Göker wouldn't be more compact as well as effective?

Compact? Yes.
Effective? No.
Anything less than 35mm for air burst is not going to cut it. I would rather go for a 40mm air burst round for a ship’s CIWS.
With supersonic and even hypersonic missiles becoming more widespread, it is important to intercept these missiles as far away from the ship as possible. A CIWS like Phalanx that has electronics that engages a missile at 2500m, can actually effectively hit that missile under 1500m. If there is a second target to engage as well, then even if it hits it, most of the debris carrying enough kinetic energy will damage the ship extensively. A Brahmos travelling at around 2.4mach at terminal stage has under 2 seconds to hit the ship at 1500 metres. This is a 3 ton missile. OK it will be lighter at terminal stage having expended most of its fuel. But will still have a lot of mass travelling at that speed.
Gokdeniz will form a steel wall at a distance of 4000m from the ship. Theoretically it should stop multiple targets coming in with no danger of fallout or collateral damage.

 

[boredaf]

I would rather go for a 40mm air burst round for a ship’s CIWS.

We do have Atom 40mm airburst round and Şahin (Hawk) system to use them with, but their range is extremely limited. I hope Aselsan is working on a longer range versions not just naval air defense but as an overall option.