India AMCA Program

[Low IQ Techie]

CAD work in progress.
Only surface outline so far based on drawings.
At certain places like dorsal/upper curves, it's difficult to match exact contours from low res drawings, & 3D views.
Keeping low count of vertices, edges, polygons on old laptop.
I've removed some diagonal edges of low bending quadrilaterals where we don't need a crease, Blender displays them smooth enough.
Many small features are remaining like landing gear doors, sensors, etc.
Considering engine exhaust diameter = 90cm, the max dia. of F414.

 

[Low IQ Techie]

The gaps between control surfaces & body have to be angled, otherwise vertical side becomes side reflector.
The following is example of F-22's slat's gap with wing root -

AMCA Static models focus on broad outline & have not shown the feature yet, but the real jet would apparently have it.

 

[Garuda]

The gaps between control surfaces & body have to be angled, otherwise vertical side becomes side reflector.
The following is example of F-22's slat's gap with wing root -

View attachment 81955



AMCA Static models focus on broad outline & have not shown the feature yet, but the real jet would apparently have it.

View attachment 81957

View attachment 81956

Make seperate thread for these. Don't put these things here. Its for news and speculations.

 

[Low IQ Techie]

Make seperate thread for these. Don't put these things here. Its for news and speculations.

Just news can be obtained by news channels on TV or mobile apps or YT channels. AMCA project running slow since 2010 so news will also come slow. My kids will have kids by IOC of AMCA.
Hence purpose of casual chat forum is discussion, sharing ideas, speculation which can also be done PRECISELY through CADs, drawings, etc. Everybody doesn't like random text chat.
We don't exactly know how AMCA will look & evolve, its future weapons, so CADS, drawings can help a lot.
I don't think separate/multiple threads for foreign platforms would be permitted by mods.

 

[Nilgiri]

Make seperate thread for these. Don't put these things here. Its for news and speculations.

It is fine. Keep everything about AMCA in this thread....speculation or proven.

 

[Low IQ Techie]

Basic CAD model outline of AMCA is ready.
Solid & rendered views in green primer, stealthy tinted canopy.
Cockpit is empty, needs time to model small area with right measurements.
Full surface features remaining, will model 1 by 1.
Started with F-22 model but AMCA got ahead so far.
Fortunately my old laptop didn't crash or hang bcoz Blender's old versions also work sufficiently well for discussion purpose. No GPU needed, just 100-150 MB RAM with Core-2 Duo CPU.
I'll be tweaking this basic CAD as per my comprehension, but i wanted 1st to make a model closest to used in official infographics, so that we can discuss what improvements can be made with minimum modifications, like FOC & MLU.

 

[TR_123456]

Basic CAD model outline of AMCA is ready.
Solid & rendered views in green primer, stealthy tinted canopy.
Cockpit is empty, needs time to model small area with right measurements.
Full surface features remaining, will model 1 by 1.
Started with F-22 model but AMCA got ahead so far.
Fortunately my old laptop didn't crash or hang bcoz Blender's old versions also work sufficiently well for discussion purpose. No GPU needed, just 100-150 MB RAM with Core-2 Duo CPU.
I'll be tweaking this basic CAD as per my comprehension, but i wanted 1st to make a model closest to used in official infographics, so that we can discuss what improvements can be made with minimum modifications, like FOC & MLU.

View attachment 82094

View attachment 82095

When will you start producing a prototype?

 

[Low IQ Techie]

When will you start producing a prototype?

MoD/DoD say 2029.
If it was up to people like me then it would have flown when FC-31 flew.

 

[Nilgiri]

Basic CAD model outline of AMCA is ready.
Solid & rendered views in green primer, stealthy tinted canopy.
Cockpit is empty, needs time to model small area with right measurements.
Full surface features remaining, will model 1 by 1.
Started with F-22 model but AMCA got ahead so far.
Fortunately my old laptop didn't crash or hang bcoz Blender's old versions also work sufficiently well for discussion purpose. No GPU needed, just 100-150 MB RAM with Core-2 Duo CPU.
I'll be tweaking this basic CAD as per my comprehension, but i wanted 1st to make a model closest to used in official infographics, so that we can discuss what improvements can be made with minimum modifications, like FOC & MLU.

View attachment 82094

View attachment 82095

Its looking great, best of luck with the continued efforts buddy

 

[Gessler]

When will you start producing a prototype?

MoD/DoD say 2029.

2029 is scheduled first flight of P1.

But P1's structural modules are supposed to be complete by 2028. Meaning production of those modules should start next year i.e. 2027.

Of course this is all assuming they stick to the timeline.

 

[Afif]

@Gessler do you know if this rendering of AMCA radar is accurate? 1528 TRM.

 

[Gessler]

View attachment 82112

@Gessler do you know if this rendering of AMCA radar is accurate? 1528 TRM.

It roughly gels with the number counted by someone on the 1:2 model shown at last year's Aero India (1,536). I posted about that in another thread back then:

Aero India 2025

defencehub.live

Some other counters gave slightly different numbers, but all are in the ~1550 ballpark give or take a couple dozen. So yeah you can consider it accurate. And yes, it's meant for AMCA.

Though I'm not sure why the IFF dipoles have switched to the top of the array instead of the bottom in that chart.

 

[Afif]

It roughly gels with the number counted by someone on the 1:2 model shown at last year's Aero India (1,536). I posted about that in another thread back then:

Aero India 2025

defencehub.live

View attachment 82113

Some other counters gave slightly different numbers, but all are in the ~1550 ballpark give or take a couple dozen. So yeah you can consider it accurate. And yes, it's meant for AMCA.

Though I'm not sure why the IFF dipoles have switched to the top of the array instead of the bottom in that chart.

Bro, is there anything on AMCA's EOTS and DAS/MAWS?

I haven't seen any mock-ups on those.

 

[Gessler]

Bro, is there anything on AMCA's EOTS and DAS/MAWS?

I haven't seen any mock-ups on those.

I don't think AMCA Mk-1 will get an EOTS. The fact that models of the plane in beast mode always show it with external LDP supports that thesis. But all latest official graphics of AMCA (assuming they're showing the version after systems-level CDR was completed) show an optical sensor of some kind at the chin station (where F-35 has its EOTS):

There is a known development program for a sensor called GA-C/GA-R (R is 'Retractable' version while C has segmented-windows like F-35 EOTS). There's nothing to say if this is the sensor being shown on AMCA but I'm convinced it is. This housing has no laser emitter or laser spot-tracker in it though, just an IR camera & visible camera. So essential it's an EO/IR assembly performing functions similar to Rafale's FSO (sans LRF), except both sensors are combined into a single housing, and mounted upside down. So not a true EOTS due to lack of laser-targeting capabilities:

A private contractor had displayed a segmented-window assembly (probably made for this contract) at last Aero India, though they call it an 'EOTS' window:

Precision Optics Manufacturer & Supplier - Optica

www.opticsindia.com

All-aspect stealth is a requirement for AMCA program, so eventually they'll have to get rid of the external LDP for A2G missions. Probably will be achieved by AMCA Mk-2. I don't know why they aren't doing it on the Mk-1 itself, maybe the tech isn't ready or maybe it's a power limitation.

As of DAS, work on an engineering prototype to prove the sensor-fusion software started in 2024, I made a post on it before:

AMCA Program

Addendum to what I posted above: Wing area vs MTOW for F-22 vs F-35 and HAL AMCA (provisional) for basic L/D comparison i.e AMCA closer to ratio of F-22 here. F-22 MTOW = 38 ton, wing area = 78, wingspan = 13.56, AR = 2.36 F-35 MTOW = 30 ton, wing area = 43, wingspan = 11, AR = 2.81 AMCA*...

defencehub.live

We don't know yet what the DAS sensors themselves will be like at this point (at least for AMCA Mk-1). Same DC-MAWS as Tejas Mk-2 or a next-gen system? There's two known versions: DAS-DB (Dual-band) & DAS-HD (HighDef). I believe these comprise the next-gen DAS system whereas AMCA Mk-1 might just get the DC-MAWS. The DC-MAWS are already made keeping in mind sensor fusion as the Tejas Mk-2 itself comes with a high-bandwidth ethernet-based avionics/TSN architecture:

The Tejas Mk-2's MAWS are essentially ready hardware-wise:

The system in a pod-based version has been flying on MKI for a while now:

 

[Low IQ Techie]

I don't think AMCA Mk-1 will get an EOTS. The fact that models of the plane in beast mode always show it with external LDP supports that thesis. But all latest official graphics of AMCA (assuming they're showing the version after systems-level CDR was completed) show an optical sensor of some kind at the chin station (where F-35 has its EOTS):

View attachment 82145

View attachment 82146

There is a known development program for a sensor called GA-C/GA-R (R is 'Retractable' version while C has segmented-windows like F-35 EOTS). There's nothing to say if this is the sensor being shown on AMCA but I'm convinced it is. This housing has no laser emitter or laser spot-tracker in it though, just an IR camera & visible camera. So essential it's an EO/IR assembly performing functions similar to Rafale's FSO (sans LRF), except both sensors are combined into a single housing, and mounted upside down. So not a true EOTS due to lack of laser-targeting capabilities:

View attachment 82147

View attachment 82148

A private contractor had displayed a segmented-window assembly (probably made for this contract) at last Aero India, though they call it an 'EOTS' window:

View attachment 82149

View attachment 82151

View attachment 82152

Precision Optics Manufacturer & Supplier - Optica

www.opticsindia.com

All-aspect stealth is a requirement for AMCA program, so eventually they'll have to get rid of the external LDP for A2G missions. Probably will be achieved by AMCA Mk-2. I don't know why they aren't doing it on the Mk-1 itself, maybe the tech isn't ready or maybe it's a power limitation.

As of DAS, work on an engineering prototype to prove the sensor-fusion software started in 2024, I made a post on it before:

AMCA Program

Addendum to what I posted above: Wing area vs MTOW for F-22 vs F-35 and HAL AMCA (provisional) for basic L/D comparison i.e AMCA closer to ratio of F-22 here. F-22 MTOW = 38 ton, wing area = 78, wingspan = 13.56, AR = 2.36 F-35 MTOW = 30 ton, wing area = 43, wingspan = 11, AR = 2.81 AMCA*...

defencehub.live

We don't know yet what the DAS sensors themselves will be like at this point (at least for AMCA Mk-1). Same DC-MAWS as Tejas Mk-2 or a next-gen system? There's two known versions: DAS-DB (Dual-band) & DAS-HD (HighDef). I believe these comprise the next-gen DAS system whereas AMCA Mk-1 might just get the DC-MAWS. The DC-MAWS are already made keeping in mind sensor fusion as the Tejas Mk-2 itself comes with a high-bandwidth ethernet-based avionics/TSN architecture:

View attachment 82154

The Tejas Mk-2's MAWS are essentially ready hardware-wise:

View attachment 82155

The system in a pod-based version has been flying on MKI for a while now:

View attachment 82157

View attachment 82158

Today these are basic features & as decade passes they become even more basic.
Static models are mostly shown as basic outline.
Prototypes or TD could also be basic for testing different things like X-35, YF-22, YF-23, FC-31, Su-57, J-20, Kaan.
The IOC jet roll out reveals the minimum required config.
AMCA has enough (delayed) time for IOC.
Not in 1st flight model but afterwards, Kaan has fabricated EOTS & stealthy IRST in newer prototype itself.
I'll pray that DRDO does the same.