TR Attack & Utility Helicopter Programs

[Hexciter]

Source: Sinan Şal

 

[Cypro]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1371182502581260288

No T629 on the table and I haven't heard him mentioning it at least after I started to listen.

 

[Zafer]

No T629 on the table and I haven't heard him mentioning it at least after I started to listen.

They must be keeping the surprise element alive as it is supposed to be imminent now. IDEF21 should have the answer.

 

[Yasar_TR]

View attachment 16026
Source: Sinan Şal

All these helicopters that use this proposed engine are transport helicopters. They are not attack helicopters. They are not war machines.
An attack helicopter’s power requirement is very different to a transport helecopter’s. Sudden acceleration, manoeuvring and gaining altitude. These exert different loads on an engine.
That is why we are testing TS1400 on Gokbey first. To see if in less volatile conditions it is viable. Once confirmed. Then we can proceed to T-129 or T-629.
How can they be certain that this engine will be OK for Atak-2 (T-929)?
Our T700 engine that we build for our Blackhawks could be used for Atak-2. A less powerful version of that engine was powering the Apache helicopters.

 

[Test7]

ATAK 2 helicopters' engines will come from Ukraine​

Turkish Aerospace Industry (TAI) General Manager Prof. Dr. Temel Kotil announced that ATAK-II's engines will come from Ukraine.

Talking about the helicopter projects of TAI, Temel Kotil announced that the T929, known as ATAK-II, is in the 11-ton class and can carry 1,500 kg of ammunition. He stated that the engine will come from Ukraine since there is no domestic or national engine alternative. Kotil also stated that it will be equipped with 2500 horsepower engines and will make its first flight in 2023.

The helicopter to be developed with the Heavy Class Attack Helicopter Project Contract signed between the Presidency of Defense Industry (SSB) and TUSAŞ will have approximately twice the take-off weight of our current ATAK helicopter and will be among the top class attack helicopters with only two examples in the world. TUSAŞ General Manager Temel Kotil stated that Atak 2 would be flying in 2023.

The Heavy Class Attack Helicopter Project was launched to meet the needs of the Turkish Armed Forces in this field. With the project, an effective and deterrent attack helicopter, which can carry a high amount of useful load, resistant to challenging environmental factors, equipped with advanced technology target tracking and imaging systems, electronic warfare systems, navigation systems, communication systems and weapon systems, has high maneuverability and performance, is designed and produced. is planned.

The project also aims to maximize the use of domestic systems, ensure security of supply and freedom of export. It is believed that the Heavy Class Attack Helicopter Project will play an important role in reducing foreign dependency, realizing domestic, national and innovative solutions with the knowledge gained in our current domestic projects and increasing the effectiveness of our Turkish Armed Forces.

With the project, the Turkish Armed Forces (TSK) meets the heavy-class attack helicopter needs, can carry high payloads (ammunition), have advanced technology target tracking and imaging systems, electronic warfare systems, navigation systems, communication systems and weapon systems, with domestic facilities. It is aimed to develop a new attack helicopter platform, which is produced and is not affected by supply and export constraints.

 

[Anmdt]

All these helicopters that use this proposed engine are transport helicopters. They are not attack helicopters. They are not war machines.
An attack helicopter’s power requirement is very different to a transport helecopter’s. Sudden acceleration, manoeuvring and gaining altitude. These exert different loads on an engine.
That is why we are testing TS1400 on Gokbey first. To see if in less volatile conditions it is viable. Once confirmed. Then we can proceed to T-129 or T-629.
How can they be certain that this engine will be OK for Atak-2 (T-929)?
Our T700 engine that we build for our Blackhawks could be used for Atak-2. A less powerful version of that engine was powering the Apache helicopters.

Probably TEI /TAI will do the integration and tests or upgrades required for the engine.
They will be also working on certification of the TEI engines on helicopters and add on /upgrades required for attack helicopters.
It was told the certification of modifications for Attack helicopters may take up to 2025 so this move makes sense to start working on the prototype, i don't know how easy it will be to replace engines or how much modification will be required.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Probably TEI /TAI will do the integration and tests or upgrades required for the engine.
They will be also working on certification of the TEI engines on helicopters and add on /upgrades required for attack helicopters.
It was told the certification of modifications for Attack helicopters may take up to 2025 so this move makes sense to start working on the prototype, i don't know how easy it will be to replace engines or how much modification will be required.

Logical!
But in order to do said modifications some parts may have to be changed or rebuilt. To do that we should have access to the engine, or better still, produce it under license and alter what needs to be altered.

 

[Anmdt]

Logical!
But in order to do said modifications some parts may have to be changed or rebuilt. To do that we should have access to the engine, or better still, produce it under license and alter what needs to be altered.

Probably Ukraine has approved that access so that the decision was made, the cooperation seems solid for now.
And it is very likely Ukraine would be first customer of the platform with their own engine, while Turkey optionally changing to a local engine which suits better.
If the cooperation is intended for long term it could be even better for both countries to use same engines and spare parts and maintenance could go lower.

 

[Nilgiri]

I'm guessing this is the engine family being looked at?:

VK-2500-03 - Motor Sich

 

[Turko]

Probably Ukraine has approved that access so that the decision was made, the cooperation seems solid for now.
And it is very likely Ukraine would be first customer of the platform with their own engine, while Turkey optionally changing to a local engine which suits better.
If the cooperation is intended for long term it could be even better for both countries to use same engines and spare parts and maintenance could go lower.

Ukranian newspapers most likely call it "Ukranian-Turkish attack helicopter" as they call Bayraktar Ukro-Turk since it has Ukranian engine

 

[Nilgiri]

Ukranian newspapers most likely call it "Ukranian-Turkish attack helicopter" as they call Bayraktar Ukro-Turk since it has Ukranian engine

So you got your name from that, or they got the name from you?

 

[Tsenal]

Isn't the engine in question Russian Kamov design? Do the need Russian approval?

 

[Nilgiri]

Isn't the engine in question Russian Kamov design? Do the need Russian approval?

Motor Sich owns the IP (too, as does Klimov I believe).

I believe lot of this came from soviet days so both klimov and motor sich were involved in some of the same projects (Soviet doctrine to split production, RnD etc and not concentrate it)....but there was full transfer in 90s to either side so both would be whole.

 

[Bogeyman]

TUSAŞ General Manager Temel Kotil said last night that the TS1400 turboshaft engine was tested in the ATAK helicopter

ATAK-2 Apache'den Daha İyi Olacak - C4 Defence

Türk Havacılık ve Uzay Sanayii TUSAŞ Genel Müdürü Prof. Dr. Temel Kotil, Habertürk kanalında yayınlanan Teke Tek programına konuk oldu.

www.c4defence.com

 

[Zafer]

At a webinar that I was invited to watch today Turkey was cited as an emerging VTOL manufacturer by AviationWeek editor Graham Warwick and some other industry news frontrunners. Nothing that we don't know but it was particularly emphasized as existing makers and newcomer Turkey.

 

[Combat-Master]

TUSAŞ General Manager Temel Kotil said last night that the TS1400 turboshaft engine was tested in the ATAK helicopter

ATAK-2 Apache'den Daha İyi Olacak - C4 Defence

Türk Havacılık ve Uzay Sanayii TUSAŞ Genel Müdürü Prof. Dr. Temel Kotil, Habertürk kanalında yayınlanan Teke Tek programına konuk oldu.

www.c4defence.com

I watched the entire interview, I didn't hear him say anything of the sort - did i miss him saying that ?

 

[Fairon]

I watched the entire interview, I didn't hear him say anything of the sort - did i miss him saying that ?

I only get about the TS1400 engine is being tested at Gökbey. He said T129 engines are used for Gökbey prototypes. Maybe this cause a misunderstandment.

 

[Kartal1]

I would like to see TS-1400 tested on T-629.

 

[Fairon]

I would like to see TS-1400 tested on T-629.

T629 will be based on T625(like Huey and Cobra) so if TS-1400 will successfull on T625 it will be used on T629 as well.

 

[yusuf]

T629 will be based on T625(like Huey and Cobra) so if TS-1400 will successfull on T625 it will be used on T629 as well.

T625 means 6 ton,2 motor 5 pall so what the means of T629