Azerbaijan Armenia Tensions

[King_West]

I think they didn't use them because they would get shot down. The whole Armenian strategy was trying to bait Azerbaijan to attack Armenia directly and then the Russians would use it as an "excuse" to stop the conflict.

If you noticed the armenians had a free hand to attack and terrorise azerbaijan, but the slightest noise from Azerbaijan was screamed at internationally. Putin and Russia had nothing to say about the ballistic missile attacks on civilians in Azerbaijan, putin didnt once denounce armenian actions. But he was rushing to stop the Azerbaijani victory.

Like you said, the whole Armenian strategy was trying to bait Azerbaijan to attack Armenia directly and then the Russians would use it as an "excuse" to stop the conflict. But if Armenia would use it SU-3O, than that stragegy woudnt work. Since Armenia attacked first, it would mean the CSTO would do nothing and russia would not intervene.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Like you said, the whole Armenian strategy was trying to bait Azerbaijan to attack Armenia directly and then the Russians would use it as an "excuse" to stop the conflict. But if Armenia would use it SU-3O, than that stragegy woudnt work. Since Armenia attacked first, it would mean the CSTO would do nothing and russia would not intervene.

To the entire world it looked like Armenia was already attacking Azerbaijan directly. Honestly, i think they didnt use them because Azerbaijan had control of their skies, the Armenians didnt have control of theirs as witness by the fact the Drones operated with absolute freedom.

If armenia used her planes, the Russians would just pretend like it didnt happen, just like they pretended armenia wasn't launching ballistic missiles on civilian centres.

But i think even the armenian strategy of trying to bait Azerbaijan to directly hit armenia is also rests on failed presumptions. Because the reality was that if either Russia or Iran got involved Turkey would entered the game too, neither Russia or Iran really wanted a full scale war with Turkey over Azerbaijan reclaiming her land from the armenian occupiers.

I will say this Aliyev played the game exceptionally well. Went to every ceasefire understanding that ceasefire benefits Armenia only, agreed to every ceasfire only for the fighting to carry on.

 

[Nilgiri]

+ the maneuverability of su30mki makes it easier to dodge incoming AMRAAM C-5,they have good jammers too.
Su30mki was never downed.

It's off topic convo. Let people believe what they want on it with the facts on hand.

On topic wise, there was no Indian WLR in this conflict zone, though if evidence can be shown (rather than hearsay upon hearsay), I will stand corrected.

 

[Xenon54]

I wouldn't say Russian hardware is pure trash,but their capabilities are overly exaggerated by the Russians.

The Russians problem is they suck at EW capabilities and in todays Battlefield EW is the single most important factor, what use do thousands of SAM's and Tanks have if they are just sitting duck for the enemy?
And thats where their problems start, you can catch up with hardware lack but lacking behind in electronics and software is hard to catch up. We havent seen much action from Chinese military hardware but i wont be surprised if they actually overtook Russians, they have some good tech companies meanwhile and capable engineers in those fields unlike Russians.

 

[AzeriTank]

Why they didnt use it? Because using the SU-30 would mean Azerbeidjan could attack Armenia proper without getting the CSTO involved. Its as simple as that

its totally wrong, there was no airport in Karabagh region as since 30 years Azerbaijan declared that any aircraft, even if it is civilian fly over it, will be downed..
then where are Armenian Su-25 came from? obviously from Armenia. there are many videos with downed armenian jets.
second question. why did Azerbaijan sign ceasefire with Armenia? because they were part of it.. Azerbaijan only declared that in case Baku get attacked with ballistic missiles, Azerbaijan will destroy Irevan. Irevan is only 3km away from Nakhchivan but Baku is 450 km away from Armenia.. imagine who will be the looser,, also we got way so many rockets. They even used Iskender missiles to protect shusha, several of them, even they officially accepted it. Which is officially only sold to Armenia..
so saying that Su30 were not used for that reason is totally wrong...

The problem is during all 44 days of war, all the population of Armenia strongly demanded to use 2 weapons, Iskender balllistic missiles and Su30. they declared that they used one but even know people still talk about why they have not used it...

The main reason was any jet tried to come closer to Karabagh was downed immediately, many of them even within Armenian regions. Thats why Russia was kinda shocked and didnt knwo exactly what Turkey was using, as many knew Turkey doesnt have local air deffence missiles at that time.. or simply they didnt declare it yet..

 

[AzeriTank]

Like you said, the whole Armenian strategy was trying to bait Azerbaijan to attack Armenia directly and then the Russians would use it as an "excuse" to stop the conflict. But if Armenia would use it SU-3O, than that stragegy woudnt work. Since Armenia attacked first, it would mean the CSTO would do nothing and russia would not intervene.

Do you even understand that Azerbaijan took the live video when Armenian ballistic missiles, within Armenian territory close to Azerbaijan tried to shoot ballistic missiles to our cities right after first strike but our drones destroyed them.. this alone gave Azerbaijan full authority to attack Armenia...

this is after destruction

 

[Huelague]

if you asked me before the war started, i would say no, but the reality is Armenia not a single times used its SU-30 in Karabagh war that their army also accepted it. the question is why?
Why would you choose to loose your several Su-25 jets and their pilots when you got a better system which could save your pilots? while looking for an answer for this question, if i hear the mentioned things that Russia didnt allow them to do it, then its realistic for me. how about you?

Maybe afraid of AZ AD system, maybe not ready, technical problems, logistical problems?...

 

[AzeriTank]

Maybe afraid of AZ AD system, maybe not ready, technical problems, logistical problems?...

Brand new Su-30? their 30-40 years old(at least) SU-25 all working but not the new ones.. especially, everybody knew that the war will start within months..
I have nothing against that jet, its a wonderful jet, but Russian radar, air to air missiles, cameras, self protection systems, all are very old. just imagine, their Pantsir and SU-30 use the almost the same PESA radar, i guess they knew that it is open to EW attacks. Also, they might not trust Armenian pilots, as they got it only a year ago. that also might be the issue, but the reality is very famous Armenian opposition leader called Safilyan, said that Russia didnt let them to use it, and Russia didnt reply officially at all.

Su-30MKIs For Armenia: Russia To Sell Indian-Version Of Su-30 Jets To Armenia

The Armenian Government is negotiating with Russia for the possible acquisition of additional Su-30SM fighter jets for its air force. This was confirmed by the Armenian Defense Minister David Tonoyan. Amid Renewed Tensions With India, China Launches New ‘Indigenous’ Warships Armenian Air Force...

eurasiantimes.com

Those SU-30 jets were in Russian airbase, they didnt even let Armenia to take it..

Why didn’t Armenia dispatch Su-30 after being beaten? Expert: Too few people are afraid of giving away "heads" - DayDayNews

So far, it is known that two Armenian Air Force Su-30SM fighter jets are "hiding" in the Russian air base in Yerevan to avoid possible tactical attacks.

daydaynews.cc

 

[guest_07]

Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh to Muslim
& Good day to the rest

Baku’s Success in Using Turkish Drones Raises Question:
Could Ukraine Use Them Against Russia in Crimea?

The reasons Russia is likely to be concerned
directly echo the factors animating discussions among European defense analysts:

the fact that most anti-aircraft defense systems do not work well
against low-flying and slow-moving UAVs,

and that the real-time information these drones can provide
tends to mitigate whatever other advantages of the opposing side.

As one Russian analyst, Denis Fedutinov, contends,
Azerbaijan’s success in using drones against Armenia is

an obvious advertisement for the Turkish weapon
and for unmanned aerial systems as such.

source

 

[guest_07]

Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh to Muslim
& Good day to the rest

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344177538285891587

 

[Ghost soldier]

wasn't khojaly airport in Xaxendi supposed to be open by 25 december according to armenians or they backed off due to fear of azerbaijan hiiting the airport ?

 

[AzeriTank]

wasn't khojaly airport in Xaxendi supposed to be open by 25 december according to armenians or they backed off due to fear of azerbaijan hiiting the airport ?

it would never work... only there was a talk for Russians using it, as now, they need to fly 300km away to Yerevan and come there.. but one thing is clear, Armenians will never be able to fly unless they fly with Russians. But, even that wasnt allowed by our side...

Azerbaijan knew that we will get the land back. they first let Armenian spend lots of money to build that Airport. (they have very limited money, 2 billion economy) then when it was ready, their president said he will fly first and our side openly said that they would shoot down anything and got the full right to do it.. so the money spent on that airport still there but it was never used, even during the war..

 

[Oryx]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344363524563361794

 

[Orkunhun]

Thank you Oryx,
Very comprehensive work done to list all the equipment lost with photographic evidence.

 

[guest_07]

Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh to Muslim
& Good day to the rest

UK to start new drone program following
example of Turkey’s Bayraktar

Turkey realized its program of developing and producing drones
over a short span of 10 years.

The Bayraktar TB2 armed drones, produced by the country's leading unmanned aerial platform developer Baykar,
have been operationally used since 2015.

They have continued to support Turkey’s fight against terrorism in other regions
while providing effective surveillance, reconnaissance and fire support.

source

 

[AzeriTank]

To be honest, too.. the problem with the Russians is not their technology, as they have started to match the Western technology in recent years..the main problem with the Russians is that they sell you weapons and that's it ...without any right to manufacture it or manufacture it spare parts all they care about it is your money and that's not a fair deal

i wouldnt say that to be honest, for example, Azerbaijan produce every single ammunition of artillery, bullets, Ak-47, rpg grenade itself. or look at India, they produce many parts of SU-30 and t-90 tanks, but that alone will not save you... its cheap, but look at how many jet India loose every single year. Or, they dont have AESA radar, thermal cameras, even the air to air missiles use IR instead of IIR, which is very easy to jam with flares. problem was in Azerbaijan too. we bought 12 mig-29 and after 5 years only 6-7 left and we lost almost the best pilots in it as it was only air to air capable jets in our air force.
I will be honest, if we were using Turkish systems, we could stop most of the many death in the war. our SOF did amazing job, most of them trained in Turkey for years. but they didnt have mine rsistent vehicles, sniper location systems, laser warning systems against antitank missiles, UAV to support front soldiers with ammunition. we also didnt have weapon location radar, most of the soldiers (95%) died from mortar. every time our SOF took a high position, hundreds of non stop mortar fire directed to there. of course they had some tactic against it and as soon as they took the area, they digged their own trenches for every single soldier, as to save from mortar fire, but imagine in modern warfare, those mortar fires will be suppressed immediately.. they were using SOF tactic as moving around with 10-15 soldiers only, with limited food and ammunition. as the whole idea to take the height and eat their food and take their ammunition. also most of them went through tens of training in Turkey to attack without eating for 12 days. they even didnt drink water much because if you drink water and get wounded, your bleeding doesnt stop. good thing was that Armenian soldiers afraid of our soldiers very much. as soon as our side attacked(for last 30 years, almost every month our SOF went behind their possitions and killed tens of them to remind that they will never live in peace in our land), once their SOF units finished and left only army and police, they run away and only using mortar, didnt even want to fight. left behind wounded and dead soldiers which is a shame in our culture.
to make it short. Russian army tactic could work against those who doesnt have good technology, but wouldnt work well against a modern unit... imagine, Turkish tanks has active protection system. if we had those, war could look like totally different.. the whole armenian tactic was based on that. stopping tanks and armored vehicles with antitank missiles, install hundreds of thermal cameras(france helped them) so when SOF comes, shoot that area with hundreds of mortar or, their air defense radars, cannot differentiate if the target is AN-2 OR A REAL JET, which they need to turn on radar and shoot, as afraid it will bomb their ground targets,
in real war, those regular army shoudlnt be used much, they would lost many soldiers for mistakes. they are better used in artillery and securing the captured area. otherwise there would be many death at the end which could be many times less.. Turkey also use the same tactic, only professional army, but 300.000 strong. thats really hugeee

 

[Chakib larbi]

i wouldnt say that to be honest, for example, Azerbaijan produce every single ammunition of artillery, bullets, Ak-47, rpg grenade itself. or look at India, they produce many parts of SU-30 and t-90 tanks, but that alone will not save you... its cheap, but look at how many jet India loose every single year. Or, they dont have AESA radar, thermal cameras, even the air to air missiles use IR instead of IIR, which is very easy to jam with flares. problem was in Azerbaijan too. we bought 12 mig-29 and after 5 years only 6-7 left and we lost almost the best pilots in it as it was only air to air capable jets in our air force.
I will be honest, if we were using Turkish systems, we could stop most of the many death in the war. our SOF did amazing job, most of them trained in Turkey for years. but they didnt have mine rsistent vehicles, sniper location systems, laser warning systems against antitank missiles, UAV to support front soldiers with ammunition. we also didnt have weapon location radar, most of the soldiers (95%) died from mortar. every time our SOF took a high position, hundreds of non stop mortar fire directed to there. of course they had some tactic against it and as soon as they took the area, they digged their own trenches for every single soldier, as to save from mortar fire, but imagine in modern warfare, those mortar fires will be suppressed immediately.. they were using SOF tactic as moving around with 10-15 soldiers only, with limited food and ammunition. as the whole idea to take the height and eat their food and take their ammunition. also most of them went through tens of training in Turkey to attack without eating for 12 days. they even didnt drink water much because if you drink water and get wounded, your bleeding doesnt stop. good thing was that Armenian soldiers afraid of our soldiers very much. as soon as our side attacked(for last 30 years, almost every month our SOF went behind their possitions and killed tens of them to remind that they will never live in peace in our land), once their SOF units finished and left only army and police, they run away and only using mortar, didnt even want to fight. left behind wounded and dead soldiers which is a shame in our culture.
to make it short. Russian army tactic could work against those who doesnt have good technology, but wouldnt work well against a modern unit... imagine, Turkish tanks has active protection system. if we had those, war could look like totally different.. the whole armenian tactic was based on that. stopping tanks and armored vehicles with antitank missiles, install hundreds of thermal cameras(france helped them) so when SOF comes, shoot that area with hundreds of mortar or, their air defense radars, cannot differentiate if the target is AN-2 OR A REAL JET, which they need to turn on radar and shoot, as afraid it will bomb their ground targets,
in real war, those regular army shoudlnt be used much, they would lost many soldiers for mistakes. they are better used in artillery and securing the captured area. otherwise there would be many death at the end which could be many times less.. Turkey also use the same tactic, only professional army, but 300.000 strong. thats really hugeee

i totally agree with u and this is the reason for why we shift towards the Western technology cuz it gives you complete superiority on the battlefield Besides that , dealing with the West in matter of technology transfer is far better than dealing with the Russians ...the case of russia with china and india is not the same with arab world propably becuz they don't trust arabs from the days of isarel arab wars of 1973 when egyptians give the usa a lot of soviet arms after the end of wars And when Syrian and Iraqi pilots fled, with their Soviet fighter jets to Israel...

 

[Chakib larbi]

i wouldnt say that to be honest, for example, Azerbaijan produce every single ammunition of artillery, bullets, Ak-47, rpg grenade itself. or look at India, they produce many parts of SU-30 and t-90 tanks, but that alone will not save you... its cheap, but look at how many jet India loose every single year. Or, they dont have AESA radar, thermal cameras, even the air to air missiles use IR instead of IIR, which is very easy to jam with flares. problem was in Azerbaijan too. we bought 12 mig-29 and after 5 years only 6-7 left and we lost almost the best pilots in it as it was only air to air capable jets in our air force.
I will be honest, if we were using Turkish systems, we could stop most of the many death in the war. our SOF did amazing job, most of them trained in Turkey for years. but they didnt have mine rsistent vehicles, sniper location systems, laser warning systems against antitank missiles, UAV to support front soldiers with ammunition. we also didnt have weapon location radar, most of the soldiers (95%) died from mortar. every time our SOF took a high position, hundreds of non stop mortar fire directed to there. of course they had some tactic against it and as soon as they took the area, they digged their own trenches for every single soldier, as to save from mortar fire, but imagine in modern warfare, those mortar fires will be suppressed immediately.. they were using SOF tactic as moving around with 10-15 soldiers only, with limited food and ammunition. as the whole idea to take the height and eat their food and take their ammunition. also most of them went through tens of training in Turkey to attack without eating for 12 days. they even didnt drink water much because if you drink water and get wounded, your bleeding doesnt stop. good thing was that Armenian soldiers afraid of our soldiers very much. as soon as our side attacked(for last 30 years, almost every month our SOF went behind their possitions and killed tens of them to remind that they will never live in peace in our land), once their SOF units finished and left only army and police, they run away and only using mortar, didnt even want to fight. left behind wounded and dead soldiers which is a shame in our culture.
to make it short. Russian army tactic could work against those who doesnt have good technology, but wouldnt work well against a modern unit... imagine, Turkish tanks has active protection system. if we had those, war could look like totally different.. the whole armenian tactic was based on that. stopping tanks and armored vehicles with antitank missiles, install hundreds of thermal cameras(france helped them) so when SOF comes, shoot that area with hundreds of mortar or, their air defense radars, cannot differentiate if the target is AN-2 OR A REAL JET, which they need to turn on radar and shoot, as afraid it will bomb their ground targets,
in real war, those regular army shoudlnt be used much, they would lost many soldiers for mistakes. they are better used in artillery and securing the captured area. otherwise there would be many death at the end which could be many times less.. Turkey also use the same tactic, only professional army, but 300.000 strong. thats really hugeee

As for Azerbaijan, I think it is not about Russian technology ....the truth is that Russian technology today match Western ones in many areas and Russians could have given Azerbaijan everything it needed from the Mrap's to uav/ugv thermal sight portable counter artillery radar counter sniper devices laser disgnator system command and controle system communication system jamming systems and many more from what they got for their army and what thier industry could provide, but why they should do that for azerbaijan............azerbaijan is a rich tukrish nation and It has been out for a long time from the sphere of Russian influence and beside that she's a competitor for them in the export of gas to Europe ..so why they should make azerbaijan strong when their interest is to see her weak against their poor armenian allie ...that's the same think for algeria ..we are a gas competitor for them and we had a neutral relation with the west ...so its ok , they'll sell us weapons In order to not lose the Algerian arms market to China and the West But they will never give us the right to manufacture it

 

[AzeriTank]

As for Azerbaijan, I think it is not about Russian technology ....the truth is that Russian technology today match Western ones in many areas and Russians could have given Azerbaijan everything it needed from the Mrap's to uav/ugv thermal sight portable counter artillery radar counter sniper devices laser disgnator system command and controle system communication system jamming systems and many more from what they got for their army and what thier industry could provide, but why they should do that for azerbaijan............azerbaijan is a rich tukrish nation and It has been out for a long time from the sphere of Russian influence and beside that she's a competitor for them in the export of gas to Europe ..so why they should make azerbaijan strong when their interest is to see her weak against their poor armenian allie ...that's the same think for algeria ..we are a gas competitor for them and we had a neutral relation with the west ...so its ok , they'll sell us weapons In order to not lose the Algerian arms market to China and the West But they will never give us the right to manufacture it

I speak Russian language, nobody here knows Russians more than us probably... Azerbaijani people are very strong in Russia. more than 10 official billioners just those living in Russia like head of Lucoil and so on, we even control all their mafia. But, Russian divide and control policy and always on, thats why all their neighbors hate them now. even those who trusted them the most. Russia also only tried to sell those technology to us that Turkey is going to produce lets say in 2-3 years. problem was that even it was our land occupied, when we didnt have a single tank, a single helicotper, a single artillery, and only bullets that our people rush to Soviets army base, took hostage Russian soldiers and got from them. even at that time our people fought 6 years to loose these areas. the main problem was in 1st Karabagh war,
1) USSR never let any Azerbaijani to be a fighter or study in army school. they always afraid that one day Turkey might make us against them. we didnt have people who knows even how to use weapon or any tactic.
2) any time our people tried to make an attack, as we used Russian communication devices, Russia listenned to it and told all the plans to Armenia.. Armenia basically were waiting for our people there to come with their tanks and artillery. later our people used a new tactic, only group of friends, made of those who speak Armenian, those who are local people and knows all the roads in that area to go behind enemy and they didnt report about their attack to anybody.. when it started, our side killed thousands of Armenian soldiers, even the head of al Armenian forces who was French Armenian. that way they took hundreds of village and finally Russia came to push our side to sign the ceasefire.
if you are going to fight against Russian interests, better not to fight with Russian systems..

fun part, in Karabagh war, Armenia tried to make the same tactics against us. they were speaking fluent Azerbaijani, put our flag on their tanks and armored vehicles to make our soldiers not to shoot them until last moment, or come close. But, our side was ready for that, that had a code between them, they ask question, if th other side doesnt know the answer, simply kill them.,. they lost hundreds of soldiers for this stupidity in the beginning of war)

 

[adenl]

I speak Russian language, nobody here knows Russians more than us probably... Azerbaijani people are very strong in Russia. more than 10 official billioners just those living in Russia like head of Lucoil and so on, we even control all their mafia. But, Russian divide and control policy and always on, thats why all their neighbors hate them now. even those who trusted them the most. Russia also only tried to sell those technology to us that Turkey is going to produce lets say in 2-3 years. problem was that even it was our land occupied, when we didnt have a single tank, a single helicotper, a single artillery, and only bullets that our people rush to Soviets army base, took hostage Russian soldiers and got from them. even at that time our people fought 6 years to loose these areas. the main problem was in 1st Karabagh war,
1) USSR never let any Azerbaijani to be a fighter or study in army school. they always afraid that one day Turkey might make us against them. we didnt have people who knows even how to use weapon or any tactic.
2) any time our people tried to make an attack, as we used Russian communication devices, Russia listenned to it and told all the plans to Armenia.. Armenia basically were waiting for our people there to come with their tanks and artillery. later our people used a new tactic, only group of friends, made of those who speak Armenian, those who are local people and knows all the roads in that area to go behind enemy and they didnt report about their attack to anybody.. when it started, our side killed thousands of Armenian soldiers, even the head of al Armenian forces who was French Armenian. that way they took hundreds of village and finally Russia came to push our side to sign the ceasefire.
if you are going to fight against Russian interests, better not to fight with Russian systems..

fun part, in Karabagh war, Armenia tried to make the same tactics against us. they were speaking fluent Azerbaijani, put our flag on their tanks and armored vehicles to make our soldiers not to shoot them until last moment, or come close. But, our side was ready for that, that had a code between them, they ask question, if th other side doesnt know the answer, simply kill them.,. they lost hundreds of soldiers for this stupidity in the beginning of war)

I assume the Azerbaijani army is not going to buy Russian arms from now on only when absolutely necessary?