Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[R4duga]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345087143593570306

AAAH... COME ON!!
Pleaseee....
View attachment 10342

better optimized the potential of our CN-235 platform , we still does not have dedicated MPA plane with Underwater sensing capabilty , give some of that CN-235 droppable sonobuoy and some magnetic anomaly detection sensor .

 

[Madokafc]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345087143593570306

AAAH... COME ON!!
Pleaseee....
View attachment 10342

You know how his prediction over US Made system fare so far? The most recent posts of him over Osprey is a sight to behold, and now he said this?

 

[Madokafc]

better optimized the potential of our CN-235 platform , we still does not have dedicated MPA plane with Underwater sensing capabilty , give some of that CN-235 droppable sonobuoy and some magnetic anomaly detection sensor .

CN235 only can do so far, not even the Turks satisfied over the platform itself

 

[Madokafc]

Refit and overhaul program of BTR 50 and RM70

 

[trishna_amrta]

They have buoyancy pump for propulsion, it isn't active propulsion?

What makes that any different from fish, or marine mammal? Also bear in mind there are plenty of both fish and marine mammal that far outsize & outweigh underwater glider or drone

 

[trishna_amrta]

better optimized the potential of our CN-235 platform , we still does not have dedicated MPA plane with Underwater sensing capabilty , give some of that CN-235 droppable sonobuoy and some magnetic anomaly detection sensor .

There is little point in having MAD these days. Best not having it at all

 

[Madokafc]

 

[Madokafc]

 

[Madokafc]

Lessons learned from foreign UUV discovery for Indonesia's defense​

2nd Jan 2021 14:46
By Rahmad Nasution, Teguh Nasutio

Bogor, W Java (ANTARA) - The recent discovery of an Unmanned Underwater Vehicle (UUV) belonging to a foreign nation deep inside Indonesia's territorial waters cannot be overlooked since it must be perceived as a real threat to national security.

However, how does Indonesia address this matter and prevent any future recurrence of a similar infiltration of foreign underwater drones into the country's territorial waters?

Sukamta, a member of the House of Representatives' (DPR's) Commission I overseeing security and foreign affairs, suggested that the government should improve Indonesia's defense and remote sensing capabilities.

To this end, Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto is glaring at the challenge of boosting Indonesia's capabilities to expedite the development of remote-sensing technology. To this end, the government should push its national research agencies to meet the demands.

Sukamta, who represents the Prosperous Justice Party (PKS) faction at the DPR, further suggested that Indonesia may also be able to collaborate with several countries in technology transfer to boost its mastery of defense technology.

The UUV was reportedly found by Saeruddin, a resident of Majapahit Village in Pasimarannu Sub-district, Selayar Islands District, South Sulawesi Province, on December 20, 2020.

However, after having kept it at his home for a week, this 60-year-old fisherman handed it over to a local military authority.

The discovery of this underwater drone that can be used for intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, deep water survey, and inspection-related purposes has come under the spotlight of Indonesia's and international media outlets.

Saeruddin was quoted by Detik.com as saying that the 175-kg drone was found floating while he was fishing at sea near Selayar Island on December 20, 2020.

On discovery, the drone was equipped with two cameras and a light that was still active. Its light was still blinking when he had secured it, Saeruddin was quoted as saying.

The local military authority then handed over the discovered underwater object to the Indonesian navy for investigation.

Pictures from the discovery show that the underwater drone found near Selayar Island could likely be related to the Chinese Sea Wing family of UUV.

This type of drone is also known as an underwater glider. Using variable-buoyancy propulsion and aided by a pair of wings, this drone can cruise along the sea gathering data on the surrounding ocean environment.

The Sea Wing family of UUV along with its western counterparts, such as the American LBS-G, can have dual civilian and military purposes. Typically, these drones accrue oceanographic data ranging from sea water temperature, turbidity, and salinity, to chlorophyll and oxygen levels.

While this type of data can be useful for scientific purposes, it can also be valuable to naval planners to support fleet positioning and naval maneuvers.

In particular, submarine operations rely heavily on a sound understanding of the oceanic environment that they operate in. Data collected by these drones can help submariners better position their submarines and increase their stealth and effectiveness during an operation (Sutton, 2020).

The latest finding of the drone deep inside Indonesia's territorial waters might be indicative of China expanding its naval reach.

The strategic waterways of the Indonesian archipelago are an important gateway for any Pacific powers intending to reach the Indian Ocean.

The fast-growing naval fleet of the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN), including its submarine force, which is projected to reach 76 submarines by 2030 (O'Rourke, 2020: 7), will require good oceanographic data and maritime charts to support operations beyond the Pacific and into the Indian Ocean.

In connection with the discovery of this foreign country's UUV, Deputy Speaker of the House of Representatives (DPR), Azis Syamsuddin, urged the government to strengthen Indonesia's underwater defense and security.

Syamsuddin affirmed that the discovery of the underwater drone, which resembles China's Sea Wing UUV in physical appearance, indeed poses a serious threat to Indonesia's underwater defense and security.

Hence, the Indonesian government must work to protect and secure the country's territorial waters by modernizing its underwater detection and tracking capability, he emphasized.

Any underwater drone and submarine of foreign countries cannot enter Indonesia's sea without the government's permission.

In response to the discovery, Syamsuddin echoed a call for the Indonesian foreign ministry to lodge a protest with the country that owns the recently discovered underwater drone.

In Syamsuddin’s opinion, the Foreign Ministry should also coordinate with the military (TNI) commander to take requisite measures in response to the discovery of the foreign UUV.

The TNI commander could also dispatch TNI units to bolster their early-detection capability and to prevent the UUV from sending data obtained from the covert operation.

This latest development clearly shows that Indonesia must improve its maritime surveillance. While these drones may turn out to be gathering data for seemingly innocuous purposes, including advancing scientific understanding, it is important for policy makers in Jakarta to retain a healthy dose of suspicion.

In view of all circumstances, drones, such as those of the Chinese Sea Wing family, have dual civilian and military purposes. Scientific data collected during peacetime may be used by naval planners to their advantage during wartime.

*Rahmad Nasution is an ANTARA journalist
**Muhammad Teguh Ariffaiz Nasution is a graduate of the University of Indonesia's international relations department.
Related news: Drone finding challenges RI's defense, remote sensing capabilities: MP

Related news: Indonesia must strengthen underwater defence, security: House

EDITED BY INE
By Rahmad Nasution, Teguh Nasutio
Editor: Fardah Assegaf

Lessons learned from foreign UUV discovery for Indonesia's defense

The recent discovery of an Unmanned Underwater Vehicle (UUV) belonging to a foreign nation deep inside Indonesia's territorial waters cannot be overlooked ...

en.antaranews.com

 

[Umigami]

Gw juga bingung sih gimana counter UUV beginian.
But This is just my silly idea.
How about making bounty for our Fisherman for this kind of drone they can capture?
It'll instigate them to hunt uuv for some extra bucks.

 

[Madokafc]

Gw juga bingung sih gimana counter UUV beginian.
But This is just my silly idea.
How about making bounty for our Fisherman for this kind of drone they can capture?
It'll instigate them to hunt uuv for some extra bucks.

Well there is almost nothing we can do except to give chance for your idea actually, it just pocket money as incentive for the fisherman to acts as Navy eyes for this matter.

The other thing is to properly giving warning and protest against China and stated we are not like what they are doing and this kind of activity is being hazard to the already strained bilateral relationship between Indonesia and China.

 

[Djketoprak]

Refit and overhaul program of BTR 50 and RM70

Well it's look like PT Lumindo has big contribution to retrofit all our marine toys

 

[Madokafc]

Well it's look like PT Lumindo has big contribution to retrofit all our marine toys

Yup look like this will become their inroad to future refurbished project deals in near future as actually there is plenty of assets lying on Army or Marines storage

 

[trishna_amrta]

Gw juga bingung sih gimana counter UUV beginian.

It can't. There isn't any technology that can. Which is the main reason their use is very popular these days. Moreover, unlike a large UAV, an underwater glider is cheap enough to be disposable.

How about making bounty for our Fisherman for this kind of drone they can capture?
It'll instigate them to hunt uuv for some extra bucks.

And how will our fisherman hunting down something that they can't even see or detect? Although having commercial fish finder can certainly help, it still takes a serious amount of training to use them. Considering that the vast majority of our traditional fisherman (small boats) doesn't even have carried any compass with them. Although most of them do carry android phone that do have compass & GPS, unfortunately even among the highly educated Indonesian in major cities, rarely do I found anyone who knew how to their phone compass or GPS, let alone know how to read any navigational chart.

 

[Umigami]

It can't. There isn't any technology that can. Which is the main reason their use is very popular these days. Moreover, unlike a large UAV, an underwater glider is cheap enough to be disposable.


And how will our fisherman hunting down something that they can't even see or detect? Although having commercial fish finder can certainly help, it still takes a serious amount of training to use them. Considering that the vast majority of our traditional fisherman (small boats) doesn't even have carried any compass with them. Although most of them do carry android phone that do have compass & GPS, unfortunately even among the highly educated Indonesian in major cities, rarely do I found anyone who knew how to their phone compass or GPS, let alone know how to read any navigational chart.

At least it will instigate them (not for a bad thing).
"Kalau ketemu, tangkap! Bisa jadi duit itu!"
Become more "niat" lah...

 

[Anmdt]

Well there is almost nothing we can do except to give chance for your idea actually, it just pocket money as incentive for the fisherman to acts as Navy eyes for this matter.

The other thing is to properly giving warning and protest against China and stated we are not like what they are doing and this kind of activity is being hazard to the already strained bilateral relationship between Indonesia and China.

+ Install nets at locations where streams occur, especially bottle neck areas which such a system would pass through, keep the nets wide that it wouldnt affect marine animals, but enough to capture gliders with a certain width. Since these glides up and down a diagonal net would keep it fixed. Such systems usually have " if motionless this amount of time, sink - or if desired to be retrieved- rise with a blow" mechanism.
+ Jam Chinese GPS signal in certain area to get these systems confused. But again they are equipped mainly with commercial multi-receiver GPS , satellite modems etc. Depends on amount of data meant to be collected, these systems spend a portion of time of each day on surface, to get a GPS correction for INS, to transmit data.
+reverse engineer, spot locations it has visited .There should be a simple computer similar to the rasberry pi or arduino, wont be a deal to decrypt data from logs. Find out,if they did, how did they get into Indonesian waters, last position of GPS fix would tell a lot about the history.

 

[Panca]

Well it's look like PT Lumindo has big contribution to retrofit all our marine toys

Yup look like this will become their inroad to future refurbished project deals in near future as actually there is plenty of assets lying on Army or Marines storage

AMX 10 by DelimaJaya, BTR50 and RM70 by Lumindo, BVP and LVT Does anyone know by whom?

 

[Parry Brima]

Gw juga bingung sih gimana counter UUV beginian.
But This is just my silly idea.
How about making bounty for our Fisherman for this kind of drone they can capture?
It'll instigate them to hunt uuv for some extra bucks.

Sonar that's used by mine countermeasures can detect an object as small as a football from a distance up to 1000 meters.

The key is to capture the tidy & measured zig-zag movement of the gliders caused by its buoyancy propulsion. That's how you distinguish it from fish or mines.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Sonar that's used by mine countermeasures can detect an object as small as a football from a distance up to 1000 meters.

The key is to capture the tidy & measured zig-zag movement of the gliders caused by its buoyancy propulsion. That's how you distinguish it from fish or mines.

THEORETICALLY that would be the case

 

[trishna_amrta]

+ Install nets at locations where streams occur, especially bottle neck areas which such a system would pass through, keep the nets wide that it wouldnt affect marine animals, but enough to capture gliders with a certain width. Since these glides up and down a diagonal net would keep it fixed.

Too large of sea area. And plenty sea creature around here are larger than those glider

+ Jam Chinese GPS signal in certain area to get these systems confused. But again they are equipped mainly with commercial multi-receiver GPS , satellite modems etc. Depends on amount of data meant to be collected, these systems spend a portion of time of each day on surface, to get a GPS correction for INS, to transmit data.

Bad idea (diplomatic & legal) to jam any RNSS signal without prior open hostility

+reverse engineer, spot locations it has visited .There should be a simple computer similar to the rasberry pi or arduino, wont be a deal to decrypt data from logs. Find out,if they did, how did they get into Indonesian waters, last position of GPS fix would tell a lot about the history.

Modern cryptanalysis is one aspect that the entire Indonesia establishment severely lack of (And I'm already softening my wording here)

What worrisome about this glider finding is, the location of their finding in Makassar Strait mean in the most likely case, the glider was mapping thermocline, which imply they intend to sneak sub or sub task force. And most likely intend to "park" them on the western edge of Banda Sea, which will put them in a very comfortable striking position of Surabaya. I won’t be surprised if there will be another glider found somewhere around Banda Sea