Live Conflict Military Operations Syria

[Anastasius]

There are no perfect proxies and especially in a region like Syria. If you want to be successful in the operation and go within the international law there is no way around. The fails are purely sourced at the Turkish security and foreign policy in Syria and it is not connected to the proxies in any way. These same proxies died with thousands for securing not only their but also our interests and they are not better or worst than any other non-government actor in Syria.

The problem here is not the proxies but the lack of clear structure and the low level of the propaganda system. People here are tiring their brains with philosophies that are of no importance in the big picture like who beheaded who and if someone is stealing or not. Those matters are the matters of the Turkish security forces to sort out and not you.

This is called unconventional warfare and if the nation is not ready for it better close the borders totally and isolate itself from the whole region leaving behind all the national interests of Turkey all around the globe. Like it or not this is how the modern warfare is conducted and there is absolutely no better alternative. I don't want to enter in details about the possible alternatives because I will do more bad than good.

The powerful countries from all around the world are securing their interests with groups like these from decades with different types of groups and their ideologies. Big countries used Jihadists, Marxists, Ultra-Nationalists, Coupists and every kind of human scum that you can imagine. In order to minimize the legal consequences countries are forced to do this. The reality of survival on the ground is based on actions like smuggling. The bare minimum for survival of an isolated entity is based on smuggling. We are talking about civil war here. The brave knights on white horses are fairy tales for the CNN, Sputnik and TRT audience. Like it or not this will continue to be like that and unconventional warfare will be the priority for the special forces and intelligence agencies of many big countries including Turkey to infinity and that kind of warfare will outlive us all and we will see probably many more controversial things in our lives. Better understand this as fast as you can and move on. Those things are wrong on many levels but this is how things work. We better focus on something we can change because this we will not be able to change for certain. Tomorrow someone could even come up with such a group with a banner showing Ataturk's face on it. Will it impress me or surprise me? Absolutely not! The methods will stay the same but the flag will be slightly different.

The things that must and can be improved are better structure layouts and propaganda but with time and experience these will be perfected also.

I'm sorry but you are wrong on every account. You do not let your proxies run around with Turkish flags committing blatant massacres. You do not understand why proxy warfare exists, it is to offload your dirty work on deniable goons who can keep your country and brethren safe and advance your interests while keeping good and clean PR. Not only has Turkey abysmally failed at hiding these connections seeing as how every cretin on the planet and his mother knows about these jihadist proxies but they are not even defending Turkey's interests anymore. TAF is essentially babysitting extremists who are now pursuing their own interests above all else and throwing our own under the bus for these assholes.

You can call whataboutism with Western nations using proxies all you like but the difference remains, they know how to reel them in and paint a good image. They also know how to cut loose proxies who are harming interests more than they are helping. An example of this are the rabble that eventually turned into ISIS, they were initially funded by and implanted within rebel ranks by NATO and the USA to overthrow Assad but once they morphed into an even bigger issue, they were dropped like a hot potato and all other nations washed their hands clean of them. They didn't just try to present increasingly more retarded propaganda to whitewash them. Turkish forces, frustratingly enough, still haven't learned that lesson and are excusing the actions of violent morons that should've been eliminated from the ranks years ago.

 

[Glass🚬]

I'm sorry but you are wrong on every account. You do not let your proxies run around with Turkish flags committing blatant massacres. You do not understand why proxy warfare exists, it is to offload your dirty work on deniable goons who can keep your country and brethren safe and advance your interests while keeping good and clean PR. Not only has Turkey abysmally failed at hiding these connections seeing as how every cretin on the planet and his mother knows about these jihadist proxies but they are not even defending Turkey's interests anymore. TAF is essentially babysitting extremists who are now pursuing their own interests above all else and throwing our own under the bus for these assholes.

You can call whataboutism with Western nations using proxies all you like but the difference remains, they know how to reel them in and paint a good image. They also know how to cut loose proxies who are harming interests more than they are helping. An example of this are the rabble that eventually turned into ISIS, they were initially funded by and implanted within rebel ranks by NATO and the USA to overthrow Assad but once they morphed into an even bigger issue, they were dropped like a hot potato and all other nations washed their hands clean of them. They didn't just try to present increasingly more retarded propaganda to whitewash them. Turkish forces, frustratingly enough, still haven't learned that lesson and are excusing the actions of violent morons that should've been eliminated from the ranks years ago.

You are the one who is wrong in every account, there are certain western nations which are supporting various islamist groups in Libya, are directly aiding salafi regimes in the middle east (I dont have to name them) and are supporting the PKK which are all known to cause mischief in the areas they are operating, so cut ur crap. The only thing the west has is a bigger PR machine but even that machine is declining. Yes the proxys Turkey is employing are crap but they are crap because they are cannon fodder not more not less, thats what proxys are and if the TSK has still a demand for them then they will keep operating and apparently there is still a demand for it - deal with it.

 

[Akhtar]

You are the one who is wrong in every account, there are certain western nations which are supporting various islamist groups in Libya, are directly aiding salafi regimes in the middle east (I dont have to name them) and are supporting the PKK which are all known to cause mischief in the areas they are operating, so cut ur crap. The only thing the west has is a bigger PR machine but even that machine is declining. Yes the proxys Turkey is employing are crap but they are crap because they are cannon fodder not more not less, thats what proxys are and if the TSK has still a demand for them then they will keep operating and apparently there is still a demand for it - deal with it.

The west has the proxy groups you name on terrorist lists. The US has the leaders of the PKK with million dollar bounties. Faylaq Al Sham, who persecutes Yezidis and invited Al Qaeda leaders is not penalized. Sultan Murad and other factions which SETA accidently outed as recruiting child soldiers, not penalized.

It's totally different. When was the last time Turkey penalized these factions? Published a bad news article about what one of them did?

Seems like a pretty good way to keep us from looking like we endorse it and maintaining a more disciplined fighting force - we going to do this with leaders of these militias who either openly associate with Al Qaeda and abuse civilians ? Or we going to keep praising them as they wear the Turkish flag and are rewarded with citizenship under the Reis?

I'm sorry but you are wrong on every account. You do not let your proxies run around with Turkish flags committing blatant massacres. You do not understand why proxy warfare exists, it is to offload your dirty work on deniable goons who can keep your country and brethren safe and advance your interests while keeping good and clean PR. Not only has Turkey abysmally failed at hiding these connections seeing as how every cretin on the planet and his mother knows about these jihadist proxies but they are not even defending Turkey's interests anymore. TAF is essentially babysitting extremists who are now pursuing their own interests above all else and throwing our own under the bus for these assholes.

You can call whataboutism with Western nations using proxies all you like but the difference remains, they know how to reel them in and paint a good image. They also know how to cut loose proxies who are harming interests more than they are helping. An example of this are the rabble that eventually turned into ISIS, they were initially funded by and implanted within rebel ranks by NATO and the USA to overthrow Assad but once they morphed into an even bigger issue, they were dropped like a hot potato and all other nations washed their hands clean of them. They didn't just try to present increasingly more retarded propaganda to whitewash them. Turkish forces, frustratingly enough, still haven't learned that lesson and are excusing the actions of violent morons that should've been eliminated from the ranks years ago.

Agreed completely. The west cuts loose the shit with actual sanctions. We promote the guys wearing Turkish flags, killing civilians as heroes who never do anything wrong and it fails abysmally on the world stage. Sultan Murad which has featured prominently for crimes still has a Turkish flag in most the promo videos and pictures they take. People shouldn't even seriously consider we tolerate it in UN reports.

Turkey chooses SNA leadership...of course it reflects badly.

 

[Glass🚬]

The west has the proxy groups you name on terrorist lists. The US has the leaders of the PKK with million dollar bounties. Faylaq Al Sham, who persecutes Yezidis and invited Al Qaeda leaders is not penalized. Sultan Murad and other factions which SETA accidently outed as recruiting child soldiers, not penalized.

The very same West is meeting with the very same leaders they have have on the terror list so what? The very same PKK which is persecuting Arabs is endorsed by the US, the forced recruitment of child soldiers by the PKK is endorsed by the US, that is something the US and the west needs to work on.

It's totally different. When was the last time Turkey penalized these factions? Published a bad news article about what one of them did?

When was the last time the US penalized the PKK for driving svbieds right into the city centers in the ob,os and ps zones? Published a bad news article about what one of them did?

Seems like a pretty good way to keep us from looking like we endorse it and maintaining a more disciplined fighting force - we going to do this with leaders of these militias who either openly associate with Al Qaeda and abuse civilians ? Or we going to keep praising them as they wear the Turkish flag and are rewarded with citizenship under the Reis?

you for the 400th time are not "We" your views dont align with the folks here at all and u should have figured that out already. Also for how long should the West ignore salafi countries which are known to abuse civilians, don't respect individual freedoms or the PKK which is known to engage in terror attacks or will they keep praising them as they wear the patches of the KCK orgs and reward them with fake pr?

 

[Melkor]

You do not understand why proxy warfare exists, it is to offload your dirty work on deniable goons who can keep your country and brethren safe and advance your interests while keeping good and clean PR.

Dirty work and deniable goons and then dump them when the PR goes bad… Righteo, Such admirable moral and ethical fibre...
There is a thing called credibility when criticizing, blaming, judging, setting expectations and making demands. If you have none, you can not talk, you can not make demands, you can not act as judge, jury and executioner. These are the rules that matter. Turkey should work hard to eliminate atrocious behavior no doubt, but it does not owe western cretins and their mothers any explanations considering those same cretins don’t and can’t hold their own governments to account regardless of all the tree hugger tantrums on Twitter or Amal Clooney types. Taking in millions of refugees should by far outweigh the bad PR of the rules these proxies break, but as expected, they don’t - it’s more effective PR for the west to focus on atrocities as the culture of Turkey and its military rather than anything good she does. Again, think recognition of Armenian genocide - a handy launch pad when you want to smear or validate big bad genocidal Turkey… When the west points a finger at Turkey, it also has three fingers pointing back at it.

 

[Anastasius]

Dirty work and deniable goons and then dump them when the PR goes bad… Righteo, Such admirable moral and ethical fibre...
There is a thing called credibility when criticizing, blaming, judging, setting expectations and making demands. If you have none, you can not talk, you can not make demands, you can not act as judge, jury and executioner. These are the rules that matter. Turkey should work hard to eliminate atrocious behavior no doubt, but it does not owe western cretins and their mothers any explanations considering those same cretins don’t and can’t hold their own governments to account regardless of all the tree hugger tantrums on Twitter or Amal Clooney types. Taking in millions of refugees should by far outweigh the bad PR of the rules these proxies break, but as expected, they don’t - it’s more effective PR for the west to focus on atrocities as the culture of Turkey and its military rather than anything good she does. Again, think recognition of Armenian genocide - a handy launch pad when you want to smear or validate big bad genocidal Turkey… When the west points a finger at Turkey, it also has three fingers pointing back at it.

Please re-read what you quoted again. I never said anything about moral and ethical fiber, I said that proxy warfare exists to keep good PR and a clean public image. If you're failing at even that, then what is the point of having proxies? The rest is just more whataboutism, what America and the West does is IRRELEVANT here, understand? This is about Turkey specifically and what it is doing wrong when handling these proxies. I am merely providing them as an example of how proxy warfare is done right.

You are the one who is wrong in every account, there are certain western nations which are supporting various islamist groups in Libya, are directly aiding salafi regimes in the middle east (I dont have to name them) and are supporting the PKK which are all known to cause mischief in the areas they are operating, so cut ur crap. The only thing the west has is a bigger PR machine but even that machine is declining. Yes the proxys Turkey is employing are crap but they are crap because they are cannon fodder not more not less, thats what proxys are and if the TSK has still a demand for them then they will keep operating and apparently there is still a demand for it - deal with it.

Which groups? Name them. You can't because there's no direct evidence to implicate them, only indirect speculation or occasional leaks. When Western nations utilize violent proxies, they don't let them traipse around with British or German flags. They don't make it abundantly clear that they might as well be Turkish forces since they are so closely embedded with them. They make sure to sever relations when these proxies get out of control or immediately clamp down on them doing something that might reflect badly on their "masters". And finally, Western nations are good at media warfare, something that Turkey absolutely sucks at so in lieu of having media domination, it must find workarounds, not press on with retarded ideas because "who cares?". People care. Do you think half the propaganda painting Turkey as monsters in Syria would be as effective if not for these jihadists?

The very same West is meeting with the very same leaders they have have on the terror list so what? The very same PKK which is persecuting Arabs is endorsed by the US, the forced recruitment of child soldiers by the PKK is endorsed by the US, that is something the US and the west needs to work on.

When was the last time the US penalized the PKK for driving svbieds right into the city centers in the ob,os and ps zones? Published a bad news article about what one of them did?

you for the 400th time are not "We" your views dont align with the folks here at all and u should have figured that out already. Also for how long should the West ignore salafi countries which are known to abuse civilians, don't respect individual freedoms or the PKK which is known to engage in terror attacks or will they keep praising them as they wear the patches of the KCK orgs and reward them with fake pr?

1) They don't do it openly. That's why the YPG exists. That's why they constantly paint it as "the Kurds" instead of "communist terrorists with separatist sentiments who happen to be majority Kurdish".

2) Several times actually. I've read more than one article in US media about PKK attacks in Turkey. Again, this is how you play smart PR.

3) Your views aren't absolute here either. And enough with the whataboutism, what don't you get about the fact that Turkey and the US are playing on different fields with different tools available to them? US has it on easy mode because they built their media empire up and because they know how to do proxy warfare correctly. Your response is that Turkey should be able to do it too, even though Turkey obviously can't.

 

[Ryder]

Please re-read what you quoted again. I never said anything about moral and ethical fiber, I said that proxy warfare exists to keep good PR and a clean public image. If you're failing at even that, then what is the point of having proxies? The rest is just more whataboutism, what America and the West does is IRRELEVANT here, understand? This is about Turkey specifically and what it is doing wrong when handling these proxies. I am merely providing them as an example of how proxy warfare is done right.

Which groups? Name them. You can't because there's no direct evidence to implicate them, only indirect speculation or occasional leaks. When Western nations utilize violent proxies, they don't let them traipse around with British or German flags. They don't make it abundantly clear that they might as well be Turkish forces since they are so closely embedded with them. They make sure to sever relations when these proxies get out of control or immediately clamp down on them doing something that might reflect badly on their "masters". And finally, Western nations are good at media warfare, something that Turkey absolutely sucks at so in lieu of having media domination, it must find workarounds, not press on with retarded ideas because "who cares?". People care. Do you think half the propaganda painting Turkey as monsters in Syria would be as effective if not for these jihadists?

1) They don't do it openly. That's why the YPG exists. That's why they constantly paint it as "the Kurds" instead of "communist terrorists with separatist sentiments who happen to be majority Kurdish".

2) Several times actually. I've read more than one article in US media about PKK attacks in Turkey. Again, this is how you play smart PR.

3) Your views aren't absolute here either. And enough with the whataboutism, what don't you get about the fact that Turkey and the US are playing on different fields with different tools available to them? US has it on easy mode because they built their media empire up and because they know how to do proxy warfare correctly. Your response is that Turkey should be able to do it too, even though Turkey obviously can't.

Us Special forces were wearing ypg patches.

Basically aligned themselves with terrorists LOL

Its obvious on the West's intentions against Turkey.

 

[Akhtar]

Us Special forces were wearing ypg patches.

Basically aligned themselves with terrorists LOL

Its obvious on the West's intentions against Turkey.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1417566877493104643

The US ministry of interior isn't visiting these factions. Do you see the difference ?

 

[Ryder]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1417566877493104643

The US ministry of interior isn't visiting these factions. Do you see the difference ?

Lets all ignore the us officials visting the pkk/ypg.

 

[Akhtar]

Lets all ignore the us officials visting the pkk/ypg.

Not anyone from the Whitehouse as far as I remember

 

[Glass🚬]

Not anyone from the Whitehouse as far as I remember

For years.
most recently.

Acting Assistant Secretary Joey Hood Travels to Northeast Syria - United States Department of State

On May 16, Acting Assistant Secretary Joey Hood, joined by Deputy Assistant Secretary and Acting Special Representative for Syria Aimee Cutrona, Deputy Envoy for Syria David Brownstein, and White House National Security Council Director for Iraq and Syria Zehra Bell, traveled to northeast Syria...

www.state.gov

 

[Glass🚬]

Which groups? Name them. You can't because there's no direct evidence to implicate them, only indirect speculation or occasional leaks. When Western nations utilize violent proxies, they don't let them traipse around with British or German flags. They don't make it abundantly clear that they might as well be Turkish forces since they are so closely embedded with them. They make sure to sever relations when these proxies get out of control or immediately clamp down on them doing something that might reflect badly on their "masters". And finally, Western nations are good at media warfare, something that Turkey absolutely sucks at so in lieu of having media domination, it must find workarounds, not press on with retarded ideas because "who cares?". People care. Do you think half the propaganda painting Turkey as monsters in Syria would be as effective if not for these jihadists?

1) They don't do it openly. That's why the YPG exists. That's why they constantly paint it as "the Kurds" instead of "communist terrorists with separatist sentiments who happen to be majority Kurdish".

2) Several times actually. I've read more than one article in US media about PKK attacks in Turkey. Again, this is how you play smart PR.

3) Your views aren't absolute here either. And enough with the whataboutism, what don't you get about the fact that Turkey and the US are playing on different fields with different tools available to them? US has it on easy mode because they built their media empire up and because they know how to do proxy warfare correctly. Your response is that Turkey should be able to do it too, even though Turkey obviously can't.

So what do you want? For the TSK to fully get rid of the proxys it build up for years which have now reached a lvl where they can be actively used in overseas conflicts? Get rid of that idea, the opinion of the west equals the weight of our shit, if ur so thin skinned to give a damn about PR then this ur problem. And no the US or any western newspaper have never linked the ongoing terror attacks on the ps,es,ob zones to the PKK despite it being so damn clear and if u dont want to face whataboutism dont engage in hypocrisy, when it comes to topics like these, its very easy to counter with whataboutism and I will capitalize on that.

 

[Ryder]

Not anyone from the Whitehouse as far as I remember

Two words Brett Mcgurk.

 

[Akhtar]

Two words Brett Mcgurk.

Good point,but he is not on the level of the minister of interior and the proxies are not using American flags when they commit crimes.

 

[Anastasius]

So what do you want? For the TSK to fully get rid of the proxys it build up for years which have now reached a lvl where they can be actively used in overseas conflicts? Get rid of that idea, the opinion of the west equals the weight of our shit, if ur so thin skinned to give a damn about PR then this ur problem. And no the US or any western newspaper have never linked the ongoing terror attacks on the ps,es,ob zones to the PKK despite it being so damn clear and if u dont want to face whataboutism dont engage in hypocrisy, when it comes to topics like these, its very easy to counter with whataboutism and I will capitalize on that.

No, I want Turkey to do two things:

1) Stop them from using the Turkish flag.

2) Stop them from blatantly committing horrific crimes with no repercussions and either put a leash on them or, yes, drop them.

3) Learn how to either engage in proper media warfare or don't give anti-Turkey elements ready material to use against Turkey's public image.

This has nothing to do with thin skin, it has to do with thinking two to three steps ahead on how this will help or harm Turkey in the future. I've been trying to explain this to you the whole time but you won't listen. And no, whataboutism is never a good counter and whenever you resort to it, it's a ready admission that you have lost the argument and your opponent is right. Which is something that Turkey absolutely shouldn't be doing.

 

[Glass🚬]

No, I want Turkey to do two things:

1) Stop them from using the Turkish flag.

Not something under TSK´s control, im pretty sure that they have been adviced to not use the Turkish flag, i wouldnt want to see them using the flag as well but they are not a branch of the TSK and are also not officialy affiliated with Turkey. Just because they are a proxy doesnt mean that Turkey has full controll over them.

2) Stop them from blatantly committing horrific crimes with no repercussions and either put a leash on them or, yes, drop them.

Well, thats difficult to enforce, its Syria after all and- no they wont be dropped.

3) Learn how to either engage in proper media warfare or don't give anti-Turkey elements ready material to use against Turkey's public image.

Judging how the French got triggered with the recent low lvl media campaigns, the psyops capabilities of Turkey are growing, and since u havent figured that out already, anti-Turkey elements will use anything to smear against Turkey and western PR is declining, there is a reason why biden is now looking to limit "misinformation" on social media lol

This has nothing to do with thin skin, it has to do with thinking two to three steps ahead on how this will help or harm Turkey in the future. I've been trying to explain this to you the whole time but you won't listen. And no, whataboutism is never a good counter and whenever you resort to it, it's a ready admission that you have lost the argument and your opponent is right. Which is something that Turkey absolutely shouldn't be doing.

It has something to do with skin, u are naive if u believe that the west is just cherry picking its sources for its smear campaigns, mate they are using anything in their basket to throw at us, its either giving a fck or not giving a fck, for a long time we chose to give a fck, now we choose to not give a fck and that has been the best decision imo and also whataboutism is a very good counter, it basically is a mirror and is just destroying ones arguments, its especially effective against westerners who rather not want to face the bullshit they are doing or western centrists who cant counter that.

If u want to be in a position to give critics u have to be free of the very same allegations ur accusing of. If u arent, then dont even attempt.

 

[Lool]

No, I want Turkey to do two things:

1) Stop them from using the Turkish flag.

2) Stop them from blatantly committing horrific crimes with no repercussions and either put a leash on them or, yes, drop them.

3) Learn how to either engage in proper media warfare or don't give anti-Turkey elements ready material to use against Turkey's public image.

This has nothing to do with thin skin, it has to do with thinking two to three steps ahead on how this will help or harm Turkey in the future. I've been trying to explain this to you the whole time but you won't listen. And no, whataboutism is never a good counter and whenever you resort to it, it's a ready admission that you have lost the argument and your opponent is right. Which is something that Turkey absolutely shouldn't be doing.

1- You cant drop the militias even if they commit crimes, you may wonder why? It is because there is no other party that will support turkey other than them.... the normal syrian ppl left their country, the shia groups are iran and russia slaves, and the pkk is an american pawn for dividing syria, and turkey in order to form great kurdistan

2- even if turkey performs perfect PR, us media giants will still accuse turkey.... it seems that you dont understand the core of the problem.... turkey current government is anti-US and are more to nationalism and use brute force in syria which disrupted their plans in syria and turkey and overall picture of the region!
Let me give you another example..... The UAE..... Do you think they have excellent PR? Hell no! In fact there are tons of evidences that pinpoints to UAE involvement in several war crimes but US media giants dont talk about it.... do you know why? It is because the UAE is doing america's work by sowing the seeds of chaos in the eastern midetteranean; thus, the UAE gets a pass! That is why even if turkey performs perfect PR or their proxies are at the epitome of decency and honour, you will find american media criticizing turkey and their proxies for breathing air! Yes that is right! So it is stupid to think about those rn tbh

 

[Akhtar]

Not something under TSK´s control, im pretty sure that they have been adviced to not use the Turkish flag, i wouldnt want to see them using the flag as well but they are not a branch of the TSK and are also not officialy affiliated with Turkey. Just because they are a proxy doesnt mean that Turkey has full controll over them.

Well, thats difficult to enforce, its Syria after all and- no they wont be dropped.

Judging how the French got triggered with the recent low lvl media campaigns, the psyops capabilities of Turkey are growing, and since u havent figured that out already, anti-Turkey elements will use anything to smear against Turkey and western PR is declining, there is a reason why biden is now looking to limit "misinformation" on social media lol


It has something to do with skin, u are naive if u believe that the west is just cherry picking its sources for its smear campaigns, mate they are using anything in their basket to throw at us, its either giving a fck or not giving a fck, for a long time we chose to give a fck, now we choose to not give a fck and that has been the best decision imo and also whataboutism is a very good counter, it basically is a mirror and is just destroying ones arguments, its especially effective against westerners who rather not want to face the bullshit they are doing or western centrists who cant counter that.

If u want to be in a position to give critics u have to be free of the very same allegations ur accusing of. If u arent, then dont even attempt.

You realize the UN reports are becoming really bad about these proxies using Turkish flags, their leaders being appointed by Turkey, they are being sent to Libya by Turkey, their salary comes from Turkey, the term proxy is being changed to the term paramilitary or auxiliary. HTS has a better reputation on fighting Assad then they do. It's getting ridiculous.

Yes Turkey can forbid the use of the Turkish flag on uniforms e.t.c. this is not difficult to do. They won't exist without Turkey.

If the world designated one of these groups as terrorists, Turkey will next be labelled a state sponsor of terrorism, like Gadaffi or Saddam. That's the point, this is dangerous and you giving things for the west to use against you for free, making it easy. It is negligence.

Even the Taliban made fun of the SNA. The Syrian interim government has no power on the ground in Syria, it's just the various factions we support acting like local warlords.

 

[Kartal1]

No, I want Turkey to do two things:

1) Stop them from using the Turkish flag.

2) Stop them from blatantly committing horrific crimes with no repercussions and either put a leash on them or, yes, drop them.

3) Learn how to either engage in proper media warfare or don't give anti-Turkey elements ready material to use against Turkey's public image.

This has nothing to do with thin skin, it has to do with thinking two to three steps ahead on how this will help or harm Turkey in the future. I've been trying to explain this to you the whole time but you won't listen. And no, whataboutism is never a good counter and whenever you resort to it, it's a ready admission that you have lost the argument and your opponent is right. Which is something that Turkey absolutely shouldn't be doing.

Point 1 can be partially implemented and 3 is within possibilities but point 2 is something I wanted to talk about in my last post. There is literally no such group in Syria and maybe at all. The bad results of point 2 can be minimized with improvement in point 3.

All of the groups in Syria committed similar crimes including YPG but why is nobody talking about them? Because their propaganda machine is powerful. We have to be realistic and understand that in this environment violence is part of the war and this is the reason there are proxy groups so the country supporting it don't face legal actions against it.

If we talk more deeply about the US way of unconventional warfare we should say that one of the most important points for a non-government actor to operate on the expected level is keeping the violence high and respond to violence with more violence. The US proxies are working that way and the task of teaching that important element of guerilla warfare is given to the US Special Forces personnel. The high level of violence is not a coincidence within these groups. The problem comes when the structure of the group is bad and the violence is used for personal needs more than it is used for the achievement of an X objective. YPG is engaged in looting, child soldier recruitment, forced conscription, extortion, targeted killings, smuggling of general goods, drugs and weapons, suicide bombings and what not. I am not talking about YPG with the intention of "whataboutism" but I am talking about them so you understand how the US unconventional warfare works and study more deeply about the whole initiative. With studying about that you can see what the US did right, what Turkey did wrong and me looking at the whole picture the fails are not sourced in the non-government actor Turkey used but Turkey's inability to structure the organization well, support the organization with the needed level of propaganda and convince the international community in its rightfulness. This in combination with the bigger and stronger propaganda machines of other countries is creating the horrible image of which the source we are debating today otherwise like I said it is not something specific for the organization but something normal with such groups.

"1-4. International actors in the current era have awakened to the potential of such “unconventional”
methods for compelling an enemy to do one’s will. Avoiding the advantages of U.S. military power, these
international actors seek to erode the ability of the United States to employ that comparative advantage.
Using the other instruments of power—especially the informational—they seek to employ what is variably
referred to as “irregular,” “asymmetric,” or “unrestricted” warfare. Even when violence is joined, direct
methods are generally avoided for the classic techniques of guerrilla warfare, terrorism, sabotage,
subversion, and insurgency."

Army Special Operations Forces
Unconventional Warfare
FM 3-05.130

The Turkish unconventional warfare doctrine is based on the US one but slightly different. Turkey's use of non-government actors in order to achieve its goals within that new concept is cleanly seen from the 50s till present day. If you look at the gaps of all the unconventional warfare initiatives it was always propaganda or as the unconventional warfare experts that written the FM 3-05.130 Army Special Operations Forces Unconventional Warfare field manual referred to as "the informational instrument of power" to which special attention is given.

Turkey is surprisingly good at field PSYOP and preparing the bases for UW operations on the ground but sucks big time at using propaganda on international level so Turkey can convince the international community in the rightfulness in what the X group supported by Turkey is doing as much as the local population/the targeted entity and whitewash the organization in question.

The only beautiful thing in war is how the good in the human behavior is able to come out in such environment surrounded by death and crimes. Unfortunately this is not something that is seen often and the nature of war is the opposite of these good qualities. My message to everybody interested in that issue is not to engage into ethical or moral conclusions when it comes to war and especially when it comes to unconventional warfare. I will again quote the US Army Special Operations Forces Unconventional Warfare FM 3-05.130

"Even when violence is joined, direct methods are generally avoided for the classic techniques of guerrilla warfare, terrorism, sabotage, subversion, and insurgency."

I think this is enough from me on that issue.

 

[Glass🚬]

You realize the UN reports are becoming really bad about these proxies using Turkish flags, their leaders being appointed by Turkey, they are being sent to Libya by Turkey, their salary comes from Turkey, the term proxy is being changed to the term paramilitary or auxiliary. HTS has a better reputation on fighting Assad then they do. It's getting ridiculous.

You realize that the UN reports are becoming more and more irrelevant about these proxies, their leaders are being appointed by Turkey and send at will to Libya, their salary comes from Turkey and the term proxy is being used for them. HTS is a terror org one which we would rather get rid of. Its getting ridiculous.

Yes Turkey can forbid the use of the Turkish flag on uniforms e.t.c. this is not difficult to do. They won't exist without Turkey.

We can, we probably do, if they dont follow because they are proxys then this beyond our means. They won't exist without Turkey.

If the world designated one of these groups as terrorists, Turkey will next be labelled a state sponsor of terrorism, like Gadaffi or Saddam. That's the point, this is dangerous and you giving things for the west to use against you for free, making it easy. It is negligence.

The reality is, its not the world, its just the west, no one else gives a fck about it. Thats the point, its irrelevant and if the west believes it can use it to start a smear campaign against Turkey, it wont come for free but always at a price especially at times when the Chinese and Russians becoming more and more emboldened starting such smear campaigns isnt the smartest thing to do. thats the point, it would be dangerous for them and would be giving things for the Russians and Chines efor free, making it easy. It is negligence.

Even the Taliban made fun of the SNA. The Syrian interim government has no power on the ground in Syria, it's just the various factions we support acting like local warlords.

The one who holds power on the ground is the TSK and the TSK backs the Syrian interim government, some factions act like warlords, the majority of them are not.