Morocco Moroccan Armed Forces

Chakib larbi

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Knowledgeseeker

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The sand war in 1963

First I would like to clarify that this will not be a complete thread on this war. This post will not talk about the reason for the war, and every tiny detail around it. I will mention a few claims, and leave the rest of the information in the twitter post.

The information provided in the cia archive goes in line with the Moroccan view of the war. Morocco always made claims that algeria was supported by the The UAR (United Arab Republic) which was composed of a union between Egypt and Syria, as well as Libya and Cuba. Morocco made the claim after capturing officers including previous president Hosni Mubarak, who at the time held the rank of colonel in the Egyptian Air Force. He got captured in the Erfoud region in the kingdom of morocco with 5 other Egyptian officers boarded on a helicopter, which was tasked with reconnaissance of the Algerian-Moroccan border, and the combat zone.


Morocco captured the territories of tinjoub, hassi beida, and was only a few km from the tindouf- bechar road before the signing of the ceasefire. The americans were surprised that after weeks of encirclement and all the help received, the algerians still could not take the city of figuig in morocco. The brilliance of the Moroccan armed forces on the battlefield made the Americans wonder if the Grand Boumedienne (then Algerian Minister of Defense) was working for Morocco.

The sand war is the first, and last war where the Algerian army dared to face the Moroccan army in a direct confrontation. Other battles took place after the sand war but that will be discussed in another thread.

I will now post the Twitter post that shows the Cia archives :) Check for more pictures and a deeper explanation of the war that took place.


 

Chakib larbi

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The sand war in 1963

First I would like to clarify that this will not be a complete thread on this war. This post will not talk about the reason for the war, and every tiny detail around it. I will mention a few claims, and leave the rest of the information in the twitter post.

The information provided in the cia archive goes in line with the Moroccan view of the war. Morocco always made claims that algeria was supported by the The UAR (United Arab Republic) which was composed of a union between Egypt and Syria, as well as Libya and Cuba. Morocco made the claim after capturing officers including previous president Hosni Mubarak, who at the time held the rank of colonel in the Egyptian Air Force. He got captured in the Erfoud region in the kingdom of morocco with 5 other Egyptian officers boarded on a helicopter, which was tasked with reconnaissance of the Algerian-Moroccan border, and the combat zone.


Morocco captured the territories of tinjoub, hassi beida, and was only a few km from the tindouf- bechar road before the signing of the ceasefire. The americans were surprised that after weeks of encirclement and all the help received, the algerians still could not take the city of figuig in morocco. The brilliance of the Moroccan armed forces on the battlefield made the Americans wonder if the Grand Boumedienne (then Algerian Minister of Defense) was working for Morocco.

The sand war is the first, and last war where the Algerian army dared to face the Moroccan army in a direct confrontation. Other battles took place after the sand war but that will be discussed in another thread.

I will not post the Twitter post that shows the Cia archives :) Check for more pictures and a deeper explanation of the war that took place.


A short reply to your post

A year after Algeria gained independence from France 1962 Morocco's colonial ambitions started to rise Against a newly independent neighbor burdened by the legacy of colonialism and Without a real army or state institutions ...claiming that the algerian land around Bechar and Tindouf, which were liberated by the Algerian ALN from France and belonging to Algeria under the the principle of uti possidetis, are Moroccan lands ...After the end of the war, Morocco left the Algerian soil without obtaining any piece of Algerian land and without any political or military victory on the ground..Believe me, if we ever had nuclear We will wipe you with it
 
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Gary

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Yes they got upgraded between 2008-2010 but they been in service more then 50 years, the aircraft is ready for retirement. They could be used as aggressor training aircraft, but I only read reports claiming that all of them will b gradually retired with the delivered of vipers.. A order of around 20 f16 are also been reported, taking the total number to around 70 f16. Lets not forget the F-5 Tiger 3 modernization by IAI. According to the Israeli public channel"Kann News",Moroccan military officials have asked to modernize the F-5 to tiger 4 with the installations of Aesa radar, BVR capability aswell as news avionics, and general improvements.

View attachment 46230
The nosecones of the F-5s are pretty limited in terms of available volume to accommodate radars with large antenna size. That requires a downscaling of available AESA radars on sale right now and that means lesser detection range and resolution.

But 70 F-16 is good though, even better if you could secure the overhaul in the country.
 

Knowledgeseeker

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The nosecones of the F-5s are pretty limited in terms of available volume to accommodate radars with large antenna size. That requires a downscaling of available AESA radars on sale right now and that means lesser detection range and resolution.

But 70 F-16 is good though, even better if you could secure the overhaul in the country.
I see, time will tell. It was actually a british millitary magazine that mentioned the delilah cruise missile from IA. They said that the f5 would carry the delilah, not the f1 mirage. Yes 70 f16 would be enough for now to defend our interest.
4EACAFE9-1FEC-4587-B6D4-2DC4E2CEA65A.jpeg
 

Gary

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I see, time will tell. It was actually a british millitary magazine that mentioned the delilah cruise missile from IA. They said that the f5 would carry the delilah, not the f1 mirage. Yes 70 f16 would be enough for now to defend our interest.
View attachment 46272

the LM factory are kinda busy right now and I forecast RMAF F-16 order to be delivered around 2027- early 2030 (I could only find RMAF order for further 25 tho, for a total of 48 not 70). Upgraded MF1 and F5 will soldier on till that time around.

Not sure if upgrading the F1 is wise tho, consider the F-16s isnt known to carry the AASM or any French weapons. Once retired all those AASM bombs will be wasted as no more platform are able to carry one.

If it was me, the F5 should be retired ASAP while the upgraded F1 repurposed for deep strike role, that'll free up the F-16 jocks to train more on principal air to air mission.

Even tho the F-16s are multirole, the pilots will have to divide their time training air to air or air to ground. They cannot really excel at both. The Algerians are kinda smart retaining their Su-24s for this exact reason.

And this is not only my concern, the US navy aviators has the exact dilemma trying to figure out what to do with their fighters.

 
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Knowledgeseeker

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the LM factory are kinda busy right now and I forecast RMAF F-16 order to be delivered around 2027- early 2030 (I could only find RMAF order for further 25 tho, for a total of 48 not 70). Upgraded MF1 and F5 will soldier on till that time around.

Not sure if upgrading the F1 is wise tho, consider the F-16s isnt known to carry the AASM or any French weapons. Once retired all those AASM bombs will be wasted as no more platform are able to carry one.

If it was me, the F5 should be retired ASAP while the upgraded F1 repurposed for deep strike role, that'll free up the F-16 jocks to train more on principal air to air mission.

Even tho the F-16s are multirole, the pilots will have to divide their time training air to air or air to ground. They cannot really excel at both. The Algerians are kinda smart retaining their Su-24s for this exact reason.

And this is not only my concern, the US navy aviators has the exact dilemma trying to figure out what to do with their fighters.

Yes that's why i said it's reported that morocco will go for another 20 f16 to cover the space when f1, and f5 will retire. 48 is the official numbers, and it seems like morocco will get delivered the vipers before the time you mentioned. Morocco has already received the first batch of 12, and the second batch is expected to enter the inventory in 2024. The initial order took place in secrecy late 2017. The rest of the 24 f16 block 52 will be modernized at the mro center by Moroccan engineers in cooperation with sabeena and locked martin. The 15 000 square meter center is being built right now, and will be finished by the end of this year.

I do agree with you when it comes to dividing the mission task, and I don't think Morocco will only go for the 48 f16 jets. From what's circulating around the media is either around 20 more f16 jets, or getting around 30 Mirage 2000-9 from UAE. I can only find reports talking about morocco retiring the f1 mirage, and the case of the f5 upgrade is new news from when the defense minister of Israel visited morocco in late 2021. For now only the f1 will be retired gradually with the delivers of vipers, so we can expect it to be in service for some more years to come.
 

Chakib larbi

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So what kind of communications systems, command and control systems..Tactical Management Systems ..Operated by the Moroccan land forces...In addition to this, it is not noticeable at all... that the Moroccan army uses night vision and thermal devices within its regular soldiers ...armored vehicules.. special forces etc.....are you plan to fight only by daylight ...any info pics about this too..
 

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So what kind of communications systems, command and control systems..Tactical Management Systems ..Operated by the Moroccan land forces...In addition to this, it is not noticeable at all... that the Moroccan army uses night vision and thermal devices within its regular soldiers ...armored vehicules.. special forces etc.....are you plan to fight only by daylight ...any info pics about this too..
You can find more information about BMS on page 23. The M1 abrams tanks have 2nd generation FLIR, and the rest of the tanks do off course have thermal viewers. Everything from the MBT-2000, T72, and m603. I do agree with you that a lot of things are not noticeable, and that's because morocco doesn't show its capabilities a lot in the media. Search for Moroccan military soldiers with night googles, and you won't find even 2 pictures. When it comes to infantry then I do think that morocco still lacks behind when it comes to equipment of the regular soldiers, but that will change within the next year. A huge budget of 12.8 billion USD will strengthen the Moroccan army, and the local defense industry in the coming years. A lot of changes will be made in the next 8 years all the way until 2030.
 

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So what kind of communications systems, command and control systems..Tactical Management Systems ..Operated by the Moroccan land forces...In addition to this, it is not noticeable at all... that the Moroccan army uses night vision and thermal devices within its regular soldiers ...armored vehicules.. special forces etc.....are you plan to fight only by daylight ...any info pics about this too..
Night vision goggles and thermal devices are now top secrets!
 

Gary

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damn it man, its ABRAMS, not Abraham. The US does not name their main battle tanks after prophets. 🙄
 

Knowledgeseeker

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I find this video very interesting. Apparently its a prototype of an IFV made by an atlas emerald company. I don't see any information about the company, or this project. It's basically a leak by Mr Anas. He is a social media figure on social media that often gives news and leaks regarding the Moroccan armed forces.

This video is from 2020

 

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Not all systems in this picture is in the inventory, but most of them are. This network is already in progress, and the merging of both western weapon systems, and Chinese are within the same system of the cobra system. We can expect this system to fully materialize within the next 2-3 years when all the systems have been delivered as the apaches, vipers, and the ISR planes.



 

Gary

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@Knowledgeseeker , what unit is considered the elite of the Moroccan army ? I don't mean special forces but more conventional army level elite (the best equipped, the best trained)
 

Gary

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Not all systems in this picture is in the inventory, but most of them are. This network is already in progress, and the merging of both western weapon systems, and Chinese are within the same system of the cobra system. We can expect this system to fully materialize within the next 2-3 years when all the systems have been delivered as the apaches, vipers, and the ISR planes.



Is this for real or just in planning stage? What defense contractors got the job to integrate these C4ISR ?
 

Knowledgeseeker

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Is this for real or just in planning stage? What defense contractors got the job to integrate these C4ISR ?
Im gonna be transparent with you, when it comes to the Moroccan military you don't find a lot of information about it in the media. That sucks for us who are interested in defense news. Most of the information I find when it comes to acquisition is most of the time based on articles made by either official US defence websites, or general American media outlets. I will try my best to answer your question.

Morocco installed Link16 earth stations in 2011 with all encryptions. C4ISR is reportedly set up around 2016, but I don't have any source to provide for you right now. As I told you that a lot of new weapons will enter the inventory within the next 2-3 years so we can expect the structure to be fully ready by 2025.


In 2021 (ATSC) has been awarded a competitive bid task order under the Navy C4I Integrated International Solutions (CIIS) IDIQ for a Microwave Transmission Network in Morocco. This award is through the PEO C4I. https://www.atscva.com/news/Default.aspx?id=194


if we take a little information from different news outlets, and leaks we can assume that the hole BMS system have been in progress since years ago, and will fully materialize with the ISR planes, Apache, vipers, and the M1A2 deliveries.

All MAF military purchases are focusing on quality, rapid flow of information, interoperability between different equipment on Land-Air-Sea, according to a C4i architecture. I will mention a few platforms that use different systems. I will quote one of the older post:


- We have the Blue Force Tracking system on our M1 Abrams.
- When it comes to our navy the fremm heavy frigate use "Setis combat management system, while our sigmas use the "Tacticos" system.
- All our air defense systems of Chinese, french, and American will be integrated into the central air defence management system.
- MUMT-2 kits ordered with AH-64E will allow high level of interoperability between our Apache's and drones ( Hermes900, tb2 etc) by sharing video streams in real time, also with ground troops or ships for example. Link 16.

https://defencehub.live/posts/199876/reactions?reaction_id=1

LINK 16.png


 

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