TR Naval Programs

UkroTurk

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Please not a rotating radar. At least X Band 4 AESA stationary plates + rotating L band.

Last but not least please two sided UMTAS launchers ( as anti USV)!!!!
 
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boredaf

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Last but not least please two sided UMTAS launchers ( as anti USV)!!!!
Or Alpagut once it is ready. Equal or heavier warhead with something like 8 times the range, with target tracking and swarm capability. It's going to be a game changer for us against armour or threats like USVs.
 

UkroTurk

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Or Alpagut once it is ready. Equal or heavier warhead with something like 8 times the range, with target tracking and swarm capability. It's going to be a game changer for us against armour or threats like USVs.
I would prefer faster missiles against semi submersible USV as they are very hard to detect from long distance. X Band AESA plates detect, UMTAS kills.
F2DvZ-CaUAE3xVY.jpeg
 

Brave Janissary

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We are missing one point. Barbaros MLU and İ class have a good sensor tandem for light air defence frigate. when cenk-s (400+ km ) search and track long range in s band like çafrad-umr on the other hand Mar-d on Gökdeniz will track dangerous air targets around 100+ km (same like siper b1 range) like çafrad-çfr, also with akr-d block 2 ship will give a 120 km target illumination support in x+ka band like çafrad-ayr. Also this ships will have a iff system.

Also all of this sensor family available in barbaros mlu.(with diffrent s band radar.)

But by the way istif and barbaros mlu have a enough sensor package for siper b1.

İf we achieve the packing siper b1 doublepack, ships will be able to carry 16x siper b1 and 32x essm/hisar-d rf.

Good Mid-point solution until Tf-2000
 
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Anmdt

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I dont think so thi Siper B1 can be quadpackable with his huge diametered booster.
Told maybe a dozen times, the booster is for initial batches of Siper B1 and likely won't be present in Quadpackable / Naval variant of Siper B1 (will be replaced with a booster, slimmer and capable of TVC - by logic). First in queue is Hisar-N.
 

Brave Janissary

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Told maybe a dozen times, the booster is for initial batches of Siper B1 and likely won't be present in Quadpackable / Naval variant of Siper B1 (will be replaced with a booster, slimmer and capable of TVC - by logic). First in queue is Hisar-N.
I dont see any official document about naval siper b1 will not be having a booster. If that stated before that. Sorry that's my fault.
On the other hand making a diffrent thrusted version of siper b1 is seems not logical for me when siper b2 will complete around 2-3 years.
 
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Anmdt

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I dont see any official document about naval siper b1 will doesnt have booster. If that stated before that. Sorry that's my fault.
No, but booster of Çakır has also changed on-the-go without much official disclosure. It was seen in brochures/figures. I am purely using my logic to say that B1 will be quadpacked, as dual-packing with current booster costs way more than quad-packing attempt + slimmer TVC booster. We have a way to go with quad-packing and B1 is not the first missile to receive such an update. Until then it will be used within single cell if TN demands a Siper B1N variant.

I am not getting into details of how much booster will be spent to gain altitude that will likely not be utilized and how long it can burn before a safe-separation to booster crash zone. Or how VL use going to affect range of the missile. In the end, it may provide little increase in range than Quadpacked Hisar-N and become pointless to use (occupying one cell and not much increment in engagement envelope).
 

uçuyorum

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I have a question about Gökdeniz and MAR-D. In the Barbaros modernization we see a MAR-D on a small second mast, alongside Smart-S but while Gökdeniz is not yet installed in concept it's missing an independent radar. Assumption is that it will use the ships radar. On TCG Istanbul however Gökdeniz comes with the Mar-D. My question is will rest of the ships systems on Istanbul be able to use the radar on the gökdeniz or is it independent like Phalanx? Because on Barbaros it makes a lot of sense to have 2 different S band and X band radars for different purposes. Also, does anyone know the range and performance of MAR-D? Is it enough to guide something like Hisar alongside Cenk-S in case of multiple engagements?

(The radar on Gökdeniz is Mar-D right?)
 

Anmdt

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I have a question about Gökdeniz and MAR-D. In the Barbaros modernization we see a MAR-D on a small second mast, alongside Smart-S but while Gökdeniz is not yet installed in concept it's missing an independent radar. Assumption is that it will use the ships radar. On TCG Istanbul however Gökdeniz comes with the Mar-D. My question is will rest of the ships systems on Istanbul be able to use the radar on the gökdeniz or is it independent like Phalanx? Because on Barbaros it makes a lot of sense to have 2 different S band and X band radars for different purposes. Also, does anyone know the range and performance of MAR-D? Is it enough to guide something like Hisar alongside Cenk-S in case of multiple engagements?

(The radar on Gökdeniz is Mar-D right?)
Gökdeniz has standalone mode (using it's own radar to scan/track), however this mode is also fed by main radar (upon detection and classification of the target). There were multiple images of Barbaros MLU which incorporated Phalanx, Gökdeniz (with AKR) and Gökdeniz (with MAR-D and AKR) in the forward position. The latest valid image is the latest. Based on logic i am speculating these;
  • MAR-D console provides a 3D scan screen to present what MAR-D sees / tracks / classifies. Since MAR-D is uplinked to ADVENT CMS, this information can be passed to any other console.
  • MAR-D on Gökdeniz may not be capable as a lone MAR-D on a mast, the power it can draw or the processing power available on gun may not as high-fidelity (in human terms) or farther in range.
  • Therefore, a standalone MAR-D is placed as a secondary X-band short range, high fidelity radar also to focus on sector scanning if necessary, while MAR-D on Gökdeniz is optimized for CIWS duties and secondarily for volume / sector scanning output.
  • MAR-D does not guide Hisar as in providing a datalink but it may acquire target parameters and pass it to datalink.
  • Barbaros may have 2 MAR-D but each optimized for different duties, while I-Class has Cenk-S and CIWS optimized MAR-D on Gökdeniz. (Cenk-S capabilities may supersede the Smart-S therefore a secondary MAR-D could have been pointless altogether).
  • You wasted my coffee break and you owe me a coffee.
 

UkroTurk

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I have a question about Gökdeniz and MAR-D. In the Barbaros modernization we see a MAR-D on a small second mast, alongside Smart-S but while Gökdeniz is not yet installed in concept it's missing an independent radar. Assumption is that it will use the ships radar. On TCG Istanbul however Gökdeniz comes with the Mar-D. My question is will rest of the ships systems on Istanbul be able to use the radar on the gökdeniz or is it independent like Phalanx? Because on Barbaros it makes a lot of sense to have 2 different S band and X band radars for different purposes. Also, does anyone know the range and performance of MAR-D? Is it enough to guide something like Hisar alongside Cenk-S in case of multiple engagements?

(The radar on Gökdeniz is Mar-D right?)
Dear i also can not understand it. Brain damaging.
İnstead of Three rotating radar, they could use 4 stationary AESA plates.
 

Anmdt

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Dear i also can not understand it. Brain damaging.
İnstead of Three rotating radar, they could use 4 stationary AESA plates.
Technically there is not 3 but 2 since one is for Gökdeniz, and i believe it is about the level of digitalization of the radar elements. I believe we will see a fixed face AESA surfacing with or after ARDA-X. Upscaled ARDA will be part of CAFRAD anyway.
 

UkroTurk

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Technically there is not 3 but 2 since one is for Gökdeniz, and i believe it is about the level of digitalization of the radar elements. I believe we will see a fixed face AESA surfacing with or after ARDA-X. Upscaled ARDA will be part of CAFRAD anyway.
Why shouldn't Gökdeniz use fixed face radars of the warship? Having an Autonomous CIWS is necessary? İf yes , i would put on Gökdeniz two fixed meteksans Retinar instead of rotating MAR-D since half turn of rotating radar is blind.
indir.jpeg


İmagine as if GÜRZ CIWS had just two fixed AESA panel. Or just need to fix two radars from GÜRZ on Gökdeniz.
images.jpeg
IMG_20231201_164448.jpg
 
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begturan

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Why shouldn't Gökdeniz use fixed face radars of the warship? Having an Autonomous CIWS is necessary? İf yes , i would put on Gökdeniz two fixed meteksans Retinar instead of rotating MAR-D since half turn of rotating radar is blind.
View attachment 63425

İmagine GÜRZ CIWS have just two fixed AESA panel. Or just need to fix two radars from GÜRZ on Gökdeniz.
View attachment 63426 View attachment 63428
images.jpg


There are two more AESA panels behind of Gürz
 

UkroTurk

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View attachment 63429

There are two more AESA panels behind of Gürz
I know there are 4. They are for 360degree real time coverage. But Gökdeniz at the back of the frigate so rear panels are useless.
2 plates could give 180 degree realtime coverage for Gökdeniz which positioned at the back.

IMG_20231201_220911.png

Edit: MAR-D is very powerful radar which consumes too much electric power for a autonomous CIWS. Retinal Radar is enough for Gökdeniz.


Edit2: if currently it is impossible to connect fixed plates, then let's make MAR-D antenna swinging thus you wouldn't waste half lifespan your expensive AESA antenna.



Or change the geometry of antenna like RAVEN AESA

DWLxjPgX4AA4Mq3.jpg_large.jpg



Or make it like fighters radar antenna


Long in short: instead of circular scan, Gökdeniz CIWS on the i -class and Barbaros class must have sectoral scan.
 
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