TR Naval Programs

[Spook]

TTHB project might have evolved into a new stage, i won't be surprised if i see two genre of FACs while one of them is being the jumbo FAC, other one is in reasonable sizes.
Will they make us wait until IDEF to figure this out? We will see.

I want an affordable modern FAC/patrol boat with modular deck which variety of systems can be integrated. Loitering munitions, guided artillery etc.

 

[Hexciter]

Korean’s new design’s STOBAR option looks good for us.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402419347797143556

 

[Zafer]

Korean’s new design’s STOBAR option looks good for us.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1402419347797143556

I want 2 catapults and a landing runway. The Korean design can only operate one plane on the move while two catapults and a runway can operate 3 planes at a time. If only we could get a Thorium reactor on it.

 

[Spook]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409253136611659785

MAYTOR Submarine-Laid Mobile Mine Project is ongoing

 

[Test7]

Fuel Replenishment Tanker is a real Fleet Support Ship with her F-76, F-44, fresh water and solid cargo transfer capability from 4 RAS stations, and F-76/F-44 transfer capability with her astern floating system. One of the most distinctive property of FRT is her maximum speed of 24 knots which provides high speed fleet transfer. She is able to carry min. 10.000 tonnes fuel, min. 750 tonnes fresh water liquid and min. 270 m3 sold cargo.

The construction and outfitting activities of the ship began in 2018 at Sefine Shipyard.

Missions​

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Primary Missions​

Replenishment at Sea (RAS) of solids and liquids Helicopter operations including HIFR and VERTREP operations Medical Support Humanitarian assistance Fight against piracy Natural disaster aid Search and rescue Non-combatant evacuation operation

Secondary Missions​

Sea air operations Defence againts asymmetric threats To support amphibious operations Training

General Specifications​

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General Information​

Length	:	195 m
Beam max	:	25 m
Depth	:	11 m
Draught	:	7,2 m
Displacement	:	22.000 tonnes

Performance​

Speed	:	20+ knots
Range	:	4.500 nm
Endurance	:	30 days

Accommodation​

Crew

:

162 Crew Members, 157 Ship Personnel

Technology & Combat Systems​

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Propulsion & Energy Systems​

Propulsion	:	2 x Controllable Pitch Propeller
Engines	:	CODOG
Power	:	40.000 MW

Navigation​

Nautical Eqp

:

Navigation Radars, Echosounder, Electromagnetic Log, GPS, AIS, Gyro-compass, Magnetic Compass, WECDIS, Auto Pilot, DDU, VDR, BNWAS, Meteo Measuring Sys.

Weapon & Sensor Suite​

Weapons	:	• CIWS(QAselsan-GOKDENIZ) • 25mm Gun
Communication	:	Military Communication Sys., Message Handling System, GMDSS, SATCOM, Interior Communication, SART, EPIRB, IFF, TACAN

 

[Cabatli_TR]

MKE 76mm maingun

Credit: @SavunmaSanayiST.com

 

[Yasar_TR]

MKE 76mm maingun

View attachment 24685

Credit: @SavunmaSanayiST.com

I don’t see the point of this gun as it is, when our new ships have a much better version of it, already on them.
Our companies like Aselsan and Roketsan have always produced an equipment that is at least as good if not better than the equivalent of current foreign alternative.
Atmaca, Bora, TRG series artillery rockets, Altay, Firtina, KGK, HGK, SOM.
This cannon is definitely inferior to what we are already using on our ships. Unless a “super rapid“ equivalent is offered, I can’t see it getting any acceptance from our Navy.
MKEK should stick their finger out and come up with a gun that is worthy of our Navy. Instead of next best thing!

 

[Anmdt]

I don’t see the point of this gun as it is, when our new ships have a much better version of it, already on them.
Our companies like Aselsan and Roketsan have always produced an equipment that is at least as good if not better than the equivalent of current foreign alternative.
Atmaca, Bora, TRG series artillery rockets, Altay, Firtina, KGK, HGK, SOM.
This cannon is definitely inferior to what we are already using on our ships. Unless a “super rapid“ equivalent is offered, I can’t see it getting any acceptance from our Navy.
MKEK should stick their finger out and come up with a gun that is worthy of our Navy. Instead of next best thing!

Probably they will deliver a few systems, and then will move onto SR equilavent. I don't think this will be permanent on I-Class, later will be shifted to some other platforms.

 

[Spook]

I don’t see the point of this gun as it is, when our new ships have a much better version of it, already on them.
Our companies like Aselsan and Roketsan have always produced an equipment that is at least as good if not better than the equivalent of current foreign alternative.
Atmaca, Bora, TRG series artillery rockets, Altay, Firtina, KGK, HGK, SOM.
This cannon is definitely inferior to what we are already using on our ships. Unless a “super rapid“ equivalent is offered, I can’t see it getting any acceptance from our Navy.
MKEK should stick their finger out and come up with a gun that is worthy of our Navy. Instead of next best thing!

MKE is not the sole developer

 

[Yasar_TR]

MKE is not the sole developer

Well, they are the project owners. They are the ones to decide what has to be done to achieve a first class gun.
Aselsan is the fire control system developer. We know that. And they already have a very good system that is operational on the Oto Melara guns.
Problem is with the speed of the gun which can be remedied by increasing the feed speed. MKEK’s gun is not even as fast as the compact version of Oto Melara and holds 10 rounds less in it’s armoury. We currently have Super Rapid version on our latest Milgem Corvettes.
Of course, real game changer is the guided Vulcano ammunition. MKEK should be developing this for our naval guns. For 76mm , Vulcano gives a 40km range. And for 127mm , 100km range.
But as @Anmdt mentioned earlier; The next versions should be more like Super Rapid.

 

[Spook]

Well, they are the project owners. They are the ones to decide what has to be done to achieve a first class gun.
Aselsan is the fire control system developer. We know that. And they already have a very good system that is operational on the Oto Melara guns.
Problem is with the speed of the gun which can be remedied by increasing the feed speed. MKEK’s gun is not even as fast as the compact version of Oto Melara and holds 10 rounds less in it’s armoury. We currently have Super Rapid version on our latest Milgem Corvettes.
Of course, real game changer is the guided Vulcano ammunition. MKEK should be developing this for our naval guns. For 76mm , Vulcano gives a 40km range. And for 127mm , 100km range.
But as @Anmdt mentioned earlier; The next versions should be more like Super Rapid.

Something like this

Navy, Navy Project Office (Sets out current and future requirements, roadmap)
Armerkom (TAKS etc., integration, tests)
Aselsan (TAKS, electronic subsystems etc.)
MKE (Manufacturing, subsystems, assembly etc.) and sub-industry manufacturers
TUBITAK, Universities (?) (Advanced materials development etc.)

SAGE and/or Roketsan (Guided Munitions)

 

[Abdelaziz]

I don’t see the point of this gun as it is, when our new ships have a much better version of it, already on them.
Our companies like Aselsan and Roketsan have always produced an equipment that is at least as good if not better than the equivalent of current foreign alternative.
Atmaca, Bora, TRG series artillery rockets, Altay, Firtina, KGK, HGK, SOM.
This cannon is definitely inferior to what we are already using on our ships. Unless a “super rapid“ equivalent is offered, I can’t see it getting any acceptance from our Navy.
MKEK should stick their finger out and come up with a gun that is worthy of our Navy. Instead of next best thing!

Its a tech that has been developed over decades ..how could u assume that mke can reach their level in this short time ? Lets be realistic ..there is a good point ..its domestic ..so it will be a solution against embargos ..but reaching the same level of otomerla will take long time

 

[Zafer]

Its a tech that has been developed over decades ..how could u assume that mke can reach their level in this short time ? Lets be realistic ..there is a good point ..its domestic ..so it will be a solution against embargos ..but reaching the same level of otomerla will take long time

They say that technology progresses at an exponential pace. Progress that took decades in the past can happen in a fraction of the time. You only need to apply the latest supporting tech and you will get the results.

 

[TheInsider]

Why the super rapid fetishism? I don't think there is a big performance difference between compact and super rapid. This is not a small-caliber short-range CIWS system that relies on fire rate. This is a navy project. The project requirements are handed to the MKE via the Navy project office. For shore bombardment, you won't be firing 120 rounds per minute non-stop. Sea surface warfare happens at longer distances and there is little difference between firing 2 rounds and 1.333 rounds per second. You need smart ammo like Vulcan. For air warfare, you need smart ammo like the dart. You won't be hitting any fast-flying targets without smart ammo for slow-flying targets you don't need an improved fire rate.

76mm/62cal maximum range @45 degrees 16km(i doubt you will easily hit a moving target at the maximum range)
Effective range 8km
A-A range @85 degrees maximum elevation 13200feet(4km, can't reach/hit UAVs like TB2)
The effective range of DART smart ammo 5km (effective against high-speed air targets like sea-skimming missiles)
The effective range of Vulcan smart ammo 40km (effective against surface targets)

 

[Anmdt]

Why the super rapid fetishism? I don't think there is a big performance difference between compact and super rapid. This is not a small-caliber short-range CIWS system that relies on fire rate. This is a navy project. The project requirements are handed to the MKE via the Navy project office. For shore bombardment, you won't be firing 120 rounds per minute non-stop. Sea surface warfare happens at longer distances and there is little difference between firing 2 rounds and 1.333 rounds per second. You need smart ammo like Vulcan. For air warfare, you need smart ammo like the dart. You won't be hitting any fast-flying targets without smart ammo for slow-flying targets you don't need an improved fire rate.

76mm/62cal maximum range @45 degrees 16km(i doubt you will easily hit a moving target at the maximum range)
Effective range 8km
A-A range @85 degrees maximum elevation 13200feet(4km, can't reach/hit UAVs like TB2)
The effective range of DART smart ammo 5km (effective against high-speed air targets like sea-skimming missiles)
The effective range of Vulcan smart ammo 40km (effective against surface targets)

DART, Vulcano, Programmable munitions only can be used if the necessary equipment are installed in.
MKE's version is bare, got nothing but simple 76/62 Compact.
SR for I-Class supposed to get programmable munition and Vulcano capability, that is the point.

the specs are not defined by Navy, but MKEK, told as "i can develop this far in limited time".
The renders are even missing a TAKS, so it means Navy is going to install that later just as done with Italian guns.
The point is, Navy wants a gun capable of firing programmable and guided shells but MKE in collaboration with MSB, for PR reasons opts for simple variant. I will not detail further.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Its a tech that has been developed over decades ..how could u assume that mke can reach their level in this short time ? Lets be realistic ..there is a good point ..its domestic ..so it will be a solution against embargos ..but reaching the same level of otomerla will take long time

They have done the hard work at a very short time. It doesn’t take long to reach to the final point.
I agree with @TheInsider about the Vulcano and Dart ammo. Especially Vulcano is a game changer. But high speed fire rate will increase kill rate drastically if you are not using smart ammo. It is a short burst fire rate. Even though it will be firing at 120rounds per minute, it will be expending a handful of rounds for a few seconds only. Surely, if there were no difference of the effectiveness between 1.33 rounds/min and 2 rounds/min, did Oto Melara introduce a higher rate of fire, just for the sake of it? Did Turkish Navy buy the faster rated guns for nothing for their Milgem Corvettes?

 

[TheInsider]

You can't compare today's battleground to the battleground when compact and super rapid first introduced. 76mm cannons(without smart ammo) lost a good portion of their effectiveness.

When you have advanced ammo fire rate became unimportant. You can gain a lot of effectiveness for a close-range Phalanx like CIWS by increasing the rate of fire(for example going a thousand to 5 thousand will net a lot of extra performance at the very close range) but you won't gain a lot by going compact to SR(you will still gain a slight performance uplift but not as much as phalanx).

We have Gökdeniz for the CIWS role (4km effective range with smart ammo vs 5km for dart)
76mm gun is lacking reach in A-A engagements on today's battlefield.
You don't need a high rate of fire for surface warfare and shore bombardments.
On today's battlefield going 120 rounds per minute for 76mm cannons has little merit.

 

[Test7]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410894036714594308

 

[Cabatli_TR]

In parallel with the 76/62mm Sea Cannon, the project team, which consists of MKEK and 3 private sector companies, is expected to produce 30 40L70 mm Twin Compact Sea Cannons (9 KILIÇ-I/II, 16+1 Tuzla Class YTKB and 4 SGK Exploration Cannons) that are currently on the DzKK and SGK platforms. @Defence Turkey

 

[Spook]

MKEK, 76mm Deniz Topunu Ölçekli Model Üzerinden AK-2021/2 Eğitimi Türk Savunma Sanayi Sergisinde Tanıttı

İbrahim SÜNNETCİ 21 Haziran - 02 Temmuz 2021 tarihleri arasında 3’üncü Ana Jet Üs Komutanlığı’nda icra edilen ve Basın Günü Faaliyeti 30 Haziran günü düzenlenen 44’ncü Anadolu Kartalı AK-2021/2 Eğitimi kapsamında MKEK, SDT ve Havelsan gibi Türk Savunma Sanayi Firmaları da Anadolu Kartalı Eğitim Merk

www.linkedin.com

• MKE is the main contractor with support of 3 private companies
• MKE is responsible manufaturing gun while private companies will develop gun mechanism and control systems
• Price and delays of Oto Melara even said to effect PN-MILGEM
• National gun is going to able to use more variety of munitions
• National gun will have an servo and hydraulic control capability. With hybrid design it will allow all functions of the gun to be controlled by operator console
• National gun will able to withstand difficult climate conditions. It will include deicing etc. cooling mechanism. Navy has other special capability demands that are not included in foreign guns.
• New gun coating technology allow fire up to 2500 rounds. Average is 1200-1700. MKE now uses boron nitride coating with said to increase lifespan of the gun. There is currently no info if it can be applied to 76mm naval gun.