TR Naval Programs

[Oublious]

@Anmdt

I think the price is not correct, the ship with sensor package would cost 400m dollar, with weapon package it could cost maybe 700 to 800 million dollar. Still cheaper then the France.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

@Anmdt

I think the price is not correct, the ship with sensor package would cost 400m dollar, with weapon package it could cost maybe 700 to 800 million dollar. Still cheaper then the France.

700-800 million for a 3 000 ton frigate? Pakistan got 4 corvettes for 1.5 billion, so 375 dollar each ship. I-class will probably be around 400 million pricetag.

 

[Anmdt]

@Anmdt

I think the price is not correct, the ship with sensor package would cost 400m dollar, with weapon package it could cost maybe 700 to 800 million dollar. Still cheaper then the France.

It won't be more than 400-450 excluding the missiles in the VLS. But the inflation et al. reasons, it is better to wait the bidding to be concluded.

The comparison was also wrong in some other levels i didn't interrupt. There is no verification whether Navy is interested in Atmaca Kara. Better to wait for those to unfold by time, Cenk-S is a rotating AESA while FDI uses 4-fixed AESA thus the APAR guidance.


-We don't know the cost of the VLS.
-We don't know the cost of the missiles that will be used within VLS.

Hard to talk without those but we will soon know the cost of the ship at least without the air defence missiles when the bidding is completed.

700-800 million for a 3 000 ton frigate? Pakistan got 4 corvettes for 1.5 billion, so 375 dollar each ship. I-class will probably be around 400 million pricetag.

With air defense missiles it may cost more, but it will definitely will not exceed 500-550.

Differently from PN Milgem ships, I-Class has;
-360 degrees dedicated IRST (vs Ahtapot E/P IRST, which is also available in I-Class)
-X band Satcom large bandwidth (vs N/A)
-Cenk-S Aesa MFR (vs Smart-S PESA)
-Ares-2NV2 ESM (vs Ares-2N Custom Export)
-Electronic attack and defense suite (vs N/A)
-possibly C-ESM (vs N/A)
-2x Akrep FCR (vs 1x Akrep FCR)
-16 VLS supports up to 64 quackpackable missile (vs 12 fixed CAMM-ER launchers)
-possibly VDS (vs N/A)

Natural to expect it to be expensive, i won't be even surprised if it hits $600M with missiles and spares.

 

[Oublious]

700-800 million for a 3 000 ton frigate? Pakistan got 4 corvettes for 1.5 billion, so 375 dollar each ship. I-class will probably be around 400 million pricetag.

Without weapon package, 400 million is really really cheap. Even the Chinese would not sell it for that price . light frigatte is the future, every body is going to lighter frifate.

 

[Oublious]

Well we are not paying 1 billion for 1 ship....

 

[Oublious]

Kozan reis have spoken....

 

[Akritas]

The price and some of the specifications of the Hellenic FDI are inaccurate.
E.g. the cost of the program(3 ships, armament, training, 3 years FOS) is 3 bil €.

 

[Turko]

The price and some of the specifications of the Hellenic FDI are inaccurate.
E.g. the cost of the program(3 ships, armament, training, 3 years FOS) is 3 bil €.

The FDI will have aster 30 block 1NT missiles? Block 1 NT might be the reason of expensive price. 4 huge, fixed panel AESA radars are also not cheap.

 

[Akritas]

The FDI will have aster 30 block 1NT missiles? Block 1 NT might be the reason of expensive price.

Hellenic FDI will have...

• up to 32 ASTER 30 surface-to-air missile
• 21-cell launcher of RAM Block 2B surface-to-air missiles
• 8 Exocet MM-40 Block 3
• 2 EuroTorp MU90 Impact torpedoes
• Canto decoys system
• Oto Melara 76 mm Super Rapid gun(mounted in stealth cupola)

French FDI will have......

• up to 16 ASTER 30 surface-to-air missile
• 8 Exocet MM-40 Block 3
• 2 EuroTorp MU90 Impact torpedoes
• Canto decoys system
• Oto Melara 76 mm Super Rapid gun(mounted in stealth cupola)

 

[kenny]

Hellenic FDI will have...

• up to 32 ASTER 30 surface-to-air missile
• 21-cell launcher of RAM Block 2B surface-to-air missiles
• 8 Exocet MM-40 Block 3
• 2 EuroTorp MU90 Impact torpedoes
• Canto decoys system
• Oto Melara 76 mm Super Rapid gun(mounted in stealth cupola)

French FDI will have......

• up to 16 ASTER 30 surface-to-air missile
• 8 Exocet MM-40 Block 3
• 2 EuroTorp MU90 Impact torpedoes
• Canto decoys system
• Oto Melara 76 mm Super Rapid gun(mounted in stealth cupola)

Aster 15*

 

[Turko]

French FDI will have......

• up to 16 ASTER 30 surface-to-air missile

I didn't ask about ASTER-30, i wondered if the deal included ASTER30 block 1 NT which is totally different. I hope you are aware about the block 1NT.

 

[Brave Janissary]

Hellenic FDI will have...

• up to 32 ASTER 30 surface-to-air missile
• 21-cell launcher of RAM Block 2B surface-to-air missiles
• 8 Exocet MM-40 Block 3
• 2 EuroTorp MU90 Impact torpedoes
• Canto decoys system
• Oto Melara 76 mm Super Rapid gun(mounted in stealth cupola)

French FDI will have......

• up to 16 ASTER 30 surface-to-air missile
• 8 Exocet MM-40 Block 3
• 2 EuroTorp MU90 Impact torpedoes
• Canto decoys system
• Oto Melara 76 mm Super Rapid gun(mounted in stealth cupola)

What about powerpack ? Same or not ?

 

[Akritas]

I didn't ask about ASTER-30, i wondered if the deal included ASTER30 block 1 NT which is totally different. I hope you are aware about the block 1NT.

ASTER 30 block 1 NT is under development, while there is no more information on what exactly the armament will bring.

 

[Akritas]

What about powerpack ? Same or not ?

The same.

 

[Brave Janissary]

The same.

So range, speed, agility is not very well , it's job very hard againts torpedo.

 

[Yasar_TR]

@Anmdt

I think the price is not correct, the ship with sensor package would cost 400m dollar, with weapon package it could cost maybe 700 to 800 million dollar. Still cheaper then the France.

That price is totally impossible.
I-Class should be around 350-400million dollars. That would include the VLS and the missiles. Siper can be more expensive. But if we don’t include development costs MILDAS should be cheaper than MK41 which was included in the original I-Class.
Aster 30 missiles cost around 2 million dollars each. Our Siper missiles should be cheaper.
A SAMP/T battery has three truck-mounted elements: an Arabel multi-function radar, a command-and-control vehicle, and four or six launch vehicles each carrying eight boxy vertical launch canisters with a missile inside ready for launch. (That is 32 to 48 missiles)
And each battery costs around 500million dollars.
You do the math!
There is no way a Belharra is going to carry 8 Aster30 missiles and they will be worth 1.2 billion Euros. (Even with 32 Aster30s that is around 64million dollars)
Those figures are most likely the development costs. According to some reports the development cost of Hisar A was more expensive at 332 million dollars than Hisar O at 255million dollars.

Europe Has Its Very Own Missile Defense System

The Aster missile defense idea might end up being a victim of politics.

nationalinterest.org

HISAR / T-LALAMIDS / T-MALAMIDS

www.globalsecurity.org

 

[Akritas]

So range, speed, agility is not very well , it's job very hard againts torpedo.

I disagree, speed is the one option to anti-torpedo defence.
The other is the anti-torpedo countermeasure systems, such as SYLENA MK2 and SEALAT-CANTO.

 

[Merzifonlu]

I disagree, speed is the one option to anti-torpedo defence.
The other is the anti-torpedo countermeasure systems, such as SYLENA MK2 and SEALAT-CANTO.

I agree with you. I think speed is actually the least important anti-torpedo measure. It can be important if the distance between the platform that throws the torpedo to the target and the target platform is large. Such distances are not uncommon in the Aegean Sea. In the Mediterranean Sea, I think the last thing war ships should worry about is the torpedo!

 

[Nutuk]

Hellenic FDI will have...

• up to 32 ASTER 30 surface-to-air missile
• 21-cell launcher of RAM Block 2B surface-to-air missiles
• 8 Exocet MM-40 Block 3
• 2 EuroTorp MU90 Impact torpedoes
• Canto decoys system
• Oto Melara 76 mm Super Rapid gun(mounted in stealth cupola)

French FDI will have......

• up to 16 ASTER 30 surface-to-air missile
• 8 Exocet MM-40 Block 3
• 2 EuroTorp MU90 Impact torpedoes
• Canto decoys system
• Oto Melara 76 mm Super Rapid gun(mounted in stealth cupola)

I think Greeks are over optimistic and wishful.

Sign first the contract and we will see on which the agreements are made, there is too much information rubbish produced by Greek forums and twitter accounts that many Greeks start to believe things like super FTDI for the lowest price.

Nice dreams but the French are everything but cheap. Either the specs that Greeks want to believe are not correct or the price they hope to pay.

Therefor talking on assumptions is a bit waste of time, wait for the signature and we'll see what the specs are

 

[Foulgrim]

I think Greeks are over optimistic and wishful.

Sign first the contract and we will see on which the agreements are made, there is too much information rubbish produced by Greek forums and twitter accounts that many Greeks start to believe things like super FTDI for the lowest price.

Nice dreams but the French are everything but cheap. Either the specs that Greeks want to believe are not correct or the price they hope to pay.

Therefor talking on assumptions is a bit waste of time, wait for the signature and we'll see what the specs are

The deal includes the purchase of 3 Belh@rra Helleniques(FDI) frigates worth 3 billion euros (+ 1 frigate with a locked price and weapons systems) with the possibility of air defense but with a lack of electronic warfare capabilities, at least in the beginning. The Belh@rra Helleniques(FDI) frigates will hypothetically include an Oto Melara 76 mm Super Rapid gun (mounted in stealth cupola), 2 × 20 mm remotely operated guns, anti-ship missiles: 8 × Exocet MM-40 Block 3, anti-air missiles: 2 × Sylver A50 8-cell VLS for MBDA Aster 30 and anti-submarine: 2 × dual torpedo tubes with EuroTorp MU90 Impact torpedoes while deliveries of warships will begin in 2025 and end in 2027. On 22/12/2021 the issue of the cost of frigates to ratify the supply was passed by the Greek Parliament.

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