TR Naval Programs

[Yasar_TR]

$ 6 billion for F-16V + kits??????

Key lawmakers signal allowing Turkey’s purchase of F-16s: US media - Türkiye News

If Turkey “plays its cards right,” it can convince the U.S. Congress to allow a roughly $6 billion purchase of 40 Block 70 F-16 fighter jets and approximately 80 modernization kits from Lockheed Martin to upgrade its existing fleet, the Defense News reported referring to comments by Congress...

www.hurriyetdailynews.com

It is around 6 billion dollar package!
There may be a good amount of suitable weapons and accessories etc too.

 

[Fighter_35]

Are you suggesting that we ditch one for the other, what are you saying?

Is the money that will build the Kanal Istanbul available to Navy projects?
Can a navy be built just because you have some money?
Have you paid the money you spent for refugees from your hard cash, could it be spent somewhere else?

NO!

Yes we have spent cash money , which could be kept in reserves for anything useful including defense spending, for refugees!!

 

[Huelague]

Key lawmakers signal allowing Turkey’s purchase of F-16s: US media - Türkiye News

If Turkey “plays its cards right,” it can convince the U.S. Congress to allow a roughly $6 billion purchase of 40 Block 70 F-16 fighter jets and approximately 80 modernization kits from Lockheed Martin to upgrade its existing fleet, the Defense News reported referring to comments by Congress...

www.hurriyetdailynews.com

It is around 6 billion dollar package!
There may be a good amount of suitable weapons and accessories etc too.

Even in this case...sounds overpriced.

 

[Altay2071]

Are you suggesting that we ditch one for the other, what are you saying?

Is the money that will build the Kanal Istanbul available to Navy projects?
Can a navy be built just because you have some money?
Have you paid the money you spent for refugees from your hard cash, could it be spent somewhere else?

NO!

Even in build operate and transfer the ownership projects we lose Money because we promise a certain (and usually unrealistic) revenue. Also for the refugees you either pay cash or borrow money again to pay cash! The borrowing can be done in general terms. We are not talking here project or revenue specific borrowing.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Turkiye is in very risky situation , i have seen an documentary how West imperialism want to destroy Turkiye in three countries (beyaz Turk-coastal areas) Siyah Turkiye and k*rdistan ) Now knowing this goverment should spent alot on weapons and hegenomy of Turkiye . Both are weak now with 5-10 million emmigrats which mostly low IQ people can easy became separatist from west agenda . Army still dont have in huge numbers tanks , warships and aircrafts . Turkiye goverment still lick West ass sometimes .
So tell me better to spent 10% of money on military or Turkiye to go like iraq syria libya which also they are destroyed from west imperilism . which option is worse ?
To let some bridges , hospitals and canals to build decades later or to splint and became iraq 2.0 ??

 

[Altay2071]

Even in this case...sounds overpriced.

Yes, it is overpriced. Why are we buying air to air missiles from these guys? If we cant integrate our missiles what use we have from those Planes? Imagine you run out missiles in the middle of war with Greece. Will US resupply us?

 

[Zafer]

Turkiye is in very risky situation , i just seen an documentary how West imperialism want to destroy Turkiye in three coutries (beyaz Turk-coastal areas) Siyah Turkiye and k*rdistan ) Now knowing this goverment should spent alot on weapons and hegenomy of Turkiye . Both are weak now with 5-10 million emmigrats which mostly low IQ people can easy became separatist from west agenda . Army still dont have in huge numbers tanks , warships and aircrafts . Turkiye goverment still lick West ass sometimes .
So tell me better to spent 10% of money on military or Turkiye to go like iraq syria libya which also they are destroyed from west imperilism . which option is worse ?
To let some bridges , hospitals and canals to build decades later or to splint and became iraq 2.0 ??

Turkish government is doing an amazing job by having the required infrastructure that is needed for a strong Türkiye now and not getting separated like some other countries all the while everything happen according to people's will. Really amazing.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Yes, it is overpriced. Why are we buying air to air missiles from these guys? If we cant integrate our missiles what use we have from those Planes? Imagine you run out missiles in the middle of war with Greece. Will US resupply us?

Remember we have 1.4 billion dollars in the kitty. We need to spend it. They know it.
If we can purchase with these planes, a good number of Amraam aim 120-D missiles, it would be a big asset to have. These are very long range (more than 160km) newest missiles US has. They have a dual pulse engine and better seeker electronics which gives them a very high probability to hit it’s target. If in the years to come, they are going to be in the inventory of our adversaries, we need to know all the details about them. What better way than having them. Also if we are to develop our Gokdogan to this level, it is easier if you have a sample in hand.

 

[Huelague]

Remember we have 1.4 billion dollars in the kitty. We need to spend it. They know it.
If we can purchase with these planes, a good number of Amraam aim 120-D missiles, it would be a big asset to have. These are very long range (more than 160km) newest missiles US has. They have a dual pulse engine and better seeker electronics which gives them a very high probability to hit it’s target. If in the years to come, they are going to be in the inventory of our adversaries, we need to know all the details about them. What better way than having them. Also if we are to develop our Gokdogan to this level, it is easier if you have a sample in hand.

We will not buy of the shelf. Most part will/can be build on TAI facility. That makes the price more reasonable.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Even in this case...sounds overpriced.

They do look overpriced. Yet we don’t know how much we are paying for the 40 new planes. Also what it entails? How much ammo are we buying with this package?
If you check how much other countries are paying for these planes you will see that the price of a V70-F16 has gone up a lot over the years. Taiwan paid 3.96 billion dollars for it’s current ~80-90+ f16s to be upgraded to V-70 status and another 4billion for 66 new planes. That makes around 60 million a plane. But we don’t know what they are getting with the planes. We don’t know what we are getting with the planes.
So the price of 6 billion doesn’t look overly expensive. But expensive nevertheless. Only consolation; Our 20-25 million dollar old f16s are becoming 60+ million dollar f16-V70s.

Taiwan Might Experience Buyers Remorse Over the F-16 Fighter

Nearly a decade after first requesting them, the Taiwanese air force finally could get 66 new F-16 fighters to begin replacing some of its older fighter aircraft.

nationalinterest.org

 

[Lool]

Yes, it is overpriced. Why are we buying air to air missiles from these guys? If we cant integrate our missiles what use we have from those Planes? Imagine you run out missiles in the middle of war with Greece. Will US resupply us?

Simply because the govt wants its 7-10 billion dollars it spent on the F-35 program
Lets not forget that the F16 wasnt a novel sale by the turkish govt but a proposal by the US to compensate Turkey simce they didnt want to give Turkey its money after being expelled from the F-35 program
The defense ministry is buying anything to adequate the lost money rather than leaving it as pure cash in the US govt coffers

 

[Altay2071]

They do look overpriced. Yet we don’t know how much we are paying for the 40 new planes. Also what it entails? How much ammo are we buying with this package?
If you check how much other countries are paying for these planes you will see that the price of a V70-F16 has gone up a lot over the years. Taiwan paid 3.96 billion dollars for it’s current ~80-90+ f16s to be upgraded to V-70 status and another 4billion for 66 new planes. That makes around 60 million a plane. But we don’t know what they are getting with the planes. We don’t know what we are getting with the planes.
So the price of 6 billion doesn’t look overly expensive. But expensive nevertheless. Only consolation; Our 20-25 million dollar old f16s are becoming 60+ million dollar f16-V70s.

Taiwan Might Experience Buyers Remorse Over the F-16 Fighter

Nearly a decade after first requesting them, the Taiwanese air force finally could get 66 new F-16 fighters to begin replacing some of its older fighter aircraft.

nationalinterest.org

In any case it is unlikely that they will sell us any of those. Maybe if the government changes and towards 2030. We should have started the f16 modernization program much earlier. Even if f35 delivery was a sure thing, we should have done this. They keep saying they have plans a, b, c, and d. I see only plan a and b both failing.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Yes, it is overpriced. Why are we buying air to air missiles from these guys? If we cant integrate our missiles what use we have from those Planes? Imagine you run out missiles in the middle of war with Greece. Will US resupply us?

doubtful, they will long sanction before you even have a chance to fire any missiles.

 

[Brave Janissary]

Dont act like Turkiye is very poor country and cant produce 15 Iclass frigates . We all lnow Turkiye is rich 3.5 trillion GDP (PPP)
just look at her cities at google earth and looks more like spain than egypt .
Aslo Turkiye is surrended by all side from opponents and enemies .
Now how u explain Little Taiwan have more powerful airforce & Navy than Turkiye ? How u explain poor Egypt buy so many weapons while Turkiye almost none expect S400 in low numbers .
How u explain Small greek have almost same firepower at sea and air as Turkiye ? Now stop talking about poor no money and talk how Turkiye needs 12 Tf 2000 & 16+ I class frigates not 4 or 2 or better 0

Money is the not only problem.

1- Meaning a equipping that kind of ship is 1+ year construction and test time for each.
2- Meaning a equipping that kind of ship is 10+ ships extra logistical costs.
3- Meaning a equipping that kind of ship is train a more personel on the naval cadet academy
4- Meaning a equipping that kind of ship is train a more personel so your school ships will make a more extra training surveys.
5- Meaning a equipping that kind of ship is train a more personel (civil or military academian) for train newe cadets.
6- Meaning a equipping that kind of ships mean adding minnimum 10+ subsystems all the production lines who already make a products very slowly due diffrent problems
7- Meaning a equipping that kind of ship is our subsytsteam contractors must make a be new investment.

That will goes like that.

From my side most important is this ships a total speed cant be aliagble for carrier duties. They need minimmum 25-30 knot speed for stobar missions.

 

[Fighter_35]

F-35s were supposed to replace f-4s in the first case and we were planning to have 100+ f-35 and more than 200 f-16s till 2030s when we will receive our stealth fighters!!
We were planning to have around 30-40 f-16s ,100+f-35s and 200-250+ TFX around 2050.
So we should have at least 260-270 aircarfts till 2025 and increase that numbers to 300+ till 2030.
This was the plan, we are at the moment not increasing the number but decrease in numbers due decreasing in f-4 fleet.
Some morons still were saying we don't need ,bla bla!!

 

[Combat-Master]

 

[UkroTurk]

View attachment 46925

They replaced frontal Gökdeniz 35mm with Phalanx that has own radar.

Those main radars of frigate would be blind and couldn't assist Gökdeniz so Autonomous Phalanx with own radar better solution IMO.

Frontal Gökdeniz as SHORAD could efficiently work just with non rotating AESA plates.
I think they decided old frigate platform not to load too much.
2 phalanx is Good solution.

There are two sided RC 25 guns, i wonder if they could adopt 35mm ATOM programmable ammunitions to 25mm cal!
İmagine two sided auto cannon work as SHORAD .

 

[Anmdt]

They replaced frontal Gökdeniz 35mm with Phalanx that has own radar.

Those main radars of frigate would be blind and couldn't assist Gökdeniz so Autonomous Phalanx with own radar better solution IMO.

Frontal Gökdeniz as SHORAD could efficiently work just with non rotating AESA plates.
I think they decided old frigate platform not to load too much.
2 phalanx is Good solution.

There are two sided RC 25 guns, i wonder if they could adopt 35mm ATOM programmable ammunitions to 25mm cal!
İmagine two sided auto cannon work as SHORAD .

View attachment 46947

As far as i know the latest model has Gökdeniz in the Forward position, Phalanx in the Aft position, and Gökdeniz was within the orders.

 

[Anmdt]

View attachment 46925

FYI, image has been changed to this, or i am not able to find the new document; earlier image used to be in this link:

https://www.aselsan.com.tr/en/capabilities/naval-systems/combat-system-design-and-integration/barbaros-mid-life-modernization-platform-integration-project

But now instead we got this:

Also modified in the PDF document;

 

[Anmdt]

Here is the Navy's plan on point defence and long-range air defence missiles, until further notice:

- Hisar - RF - Quadpacked, Point defence
- Siper Block - 0 (Hisar - RF + Booster and limited modification) - Quadpacked, Point defence + Long range air defence
- Siper Block - 1 - Single Pack - Long range + High altitude air defence
- Siper Block - 2 - Single Pack - Long range + High altitude air defence + Limited ABM capability
- Siper Block - 3 - Single Pack - Dedicated ABM

There is a chance of shifting / merging Block -1 and -2 (since Block - 2 will be derived from Block - 1 thus, capabilities might be projected on the Block - 1 if any progress recorded earlier), and renaming Block - 3 as Block - 2.

A wild cold launched G40 may appear to equip FACs / Corvettes, nothing clear yet but Navy wants to have PDM on large FACs and Light Corvettes, OPVs and hot launched Hisar proposes a volume and weight occupying solution that is not applicable.