TR Naval Programs

[Yasar_TR]

Turkish Submarine MİLDEN's Construction to Start in 2025 | TURDEF

Chief of the Turkish Navy Ercüment Tatlıoğlu has stated that the construction of MİLDEN national submarines will begin in 2025.

turdef.com

Milden construction to start in 2025 as disclosed whilst the first Reis Class is being accepted in to naval forces inventory.
Turkish Navy’s real indigenisation of submarine program is to start as a whole from design to finished article, as the MILDEN submarine will be Turkish through and through.
Milden will be the epitome of self sufficiency of Turkish navy in submarines.
As local companies are working on Hydrogen based solutions for the power systems it is expected that a form of AIP based power and drive system is to be utilised in Milden. But as the seas surrounding Turkish mainland are deep enough to support nuclear submarines, a nuclear powered sub can not be excluded either.

 

[Yasar_TR]

TF-2000 Hava Savunma Muhribi için beklenen açıklama geldi | SavunmaSanayiST

Cumhurbaşkanı Erdoğan, TF-2000 Hava Savunma Harbi Muhribi hakkında kritik bir açıklamada bulundu. TF-2000'in inşa faaliyetlerinin yakında başlaması bekleniyor.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Finally The President has disclosed that the long awaited construction work on the TF2000 destroyer is to start shortly in İstanbul shipyards.
Although 4 x TF2000 program was first planned to be the 9th to 12th ships of the Milgem series, with the decision of producing 4 more I-Class frigates these slots were given to the İstanbul Class frigates. In stead the 4 x TF2000 destroyers will be the 13th to 16th MILGEM ships of the series.
First of these ships is expected to be in the inventory by 2030.

 

[Quasar]

 

[Khagan1923]

Gonna some numbers out my behind for short while but if we say that entering the 2030s the Navy has;

2x TF-2000 (192 Cells)
8x Istif (128 Cells)
4x MLU MEKO-200 TNII (48 Cells)
2x Hisar OPV with 1x4(?) MIDLAS for Sapan (8 Cells)
4x Gabya (32 Cells)

they will have a VLS cell count of 408, not taking into account possible VLS cells on MILDEN if those even make it until then into the inventory of the Navy. Maybe Ada-Class MLU will also see VLS be added though I suppose the MLU for Ada will not happen before the early-mid 2030s.

By mid 2030s the Turkish Navy could have upwards of 600 VLS cells in its inventory Rivaling the UK and outnumbering countries such as France and Italy, of course they too will built and are building new ships and will see their VLS cell count grow.

Nevertheless in the near future the Turkish Navy will rival if not even outnumber other "Major" navies in VLS cell count.

Just as comparison, the Navy currently has 86 VLS Cells with TCG Istanbul.

In ten years that number could see itself be multipled by 10 depending on how many TF-2000 they are able to produce in the next 10 years (4-8) and if the 96 Cells are finalized.

 

[Anmdt]

Just curiosity, at future, can we see 4 çakır in one encapsulated container. If çakır dimension reduced slightly, 4 can be packed. For example 2 çakır lir , 2 çakır as. Or 4 çakır sw.

This may not be possible but it doesn't hold us back from thinking Çakır in Orka - kind capsule. If Roketsan pulls self propelled capsule tech for Atmaca and apply it to Orka, we may get our UUV / USV to utilize.

 

[Anmdt]

Gezgin cant use the same capsule with Sub Atmaca as there is a huuuge difference in size. But we can say for sure tjat the capsule from ceremony is for Sub Atmaca and probably Hisar Derin

Hisar Derin is a project of Aselsan and i doubt if it is alive. Meanwhile Navy has alternative plans and missiles to deploy for submarine based SAM.

 

[Oublious]

I assume this is Amerkom, so they did started the design phase of the AC. Looks like we are going to make Hurjet more then it is, otherwhise this will be a expensive DC Drone Carrier.

 

[TheInsider]

I assume this is Amerkom, so they did started the design phase of the AC. Looks like we are going to make Hurjet more then it is, otherwhise this will be a expensive DC Drone Carrier.

From what i see, this looks like they are slowly finishing the concept design phase and moving to the detailed design phase. You don't do detailed hydrodynamic calculations for Propeller, bulkhead etc in the concept design. It seems Armerkom put real manpower behind the project probably political will behind the project is off the charts.

 

[Lool]

A general summary of the Navy and presidential statements at yesterday's ceremony:

1- National Destroyer: (President Erdoğan) The construction activities of the TF-2000 Air Defense Warfare Destroyer will soon begin at the Istanbul Naval Shipyard Command.

2- The systems mentioned as the aircraft that will serve on the National Aircraft Carrier:

• Hürjet Naval Attack jet,
• Kızılelma and ANKA attack jets,
• Baykar Tactical block-3
• and national helicopters.

While listing these systems, the President described the purpose of the AC as the protection of rights and interests in overseas spheres of influence.

3- New Shipyards: (Naval Forces Commander Admiral Ercüment Tatlıoğlu) Within the scope of increasing the current opportunities and capabilities of the Aksaz Shipyard Command, a dry-dock that can also dock the TCG ANADOLU and the aircraft carrier we will add to the inventory is planned to be put into service in the near future. Our next goal will be the establishment and opening of our Mersin Shipyard, which has critical importance in the Eastern Mediterranean theater of operations.

4- MILDEN National Submarine Project (Admiral Ercüment Tatlıoğlu) The construction of the first of our national submarines will begin in 2025. Our ultimate goal is to equip our national submarine with national systems and devices and use it entirely with national weapons. We will be one of the six countries in the world that can design and build its own submarines.

New Submarine Floating Dock: (Admiral Ercüment Tatlıoğlu) In this context, the 3000-ton indoor submarine pool, where construction, maintenance, repair and modernization activities of submarines can be carried out day and night under all types of climate conditions, was also put into service today. The closed submarine dock is a critical and strategically important part of the national submarine production target and will contribute to the development of national technology.

(With the ceremony held in Aksaz: TCG PİRİREİS Submarine was added to the inventory. TCG MURATREİS Submarine started its sea tests. TCG HIZIRREİS Submarine met with the water. Submarine Floating Dock put into service. Fuel oil vessels added to the inventory)

So KAAN wont be deployed on the national AC to be built?

 

[dBSPL]

So KAAN wont be deployed on the national AC to be built?

'I think' even if there is such planning, it may start at very late stage. I think the most important problem with the KAAN: The Air Force is in urgent need of a new generation fighter. Moreover, the planned procurement size is astronomical, even with different blocks. Apart from the Turkish Air Force, there are at least 2-3 countries looking for an advantageous procurement plan.

It is necessary to search the archives to see if there has been any announcement about this in the past years. Aside from the physical dimensions of the aircraft(almost double compared to any single engine jet), neither KAAN nor MUG is ready at the moment. However, I think that in the MUG design process, they considering an aircraft of these dimensions can of course be navalized and operated on board. The question of whether it can be done is beyond me, but as a home built and most strategic strike/fighter element in hand, this possibility must be evaluated.

On the other side, there is a light jet platform that has completed its 100th sortie and is nearing the end of its development in the aerobatic and jet training aircraft phase, ready for mass production and very close to moving to the next stage in the development roadmap. The development of this variant can be carried out with more modest budgets due to the class of the aircraft, and perhaps it can create the infrastructure for a development program of the kind you mentioned in the 2030s.

 

[Yasar_TR]

A 285 metre long 65000 ton carrier is a seriously large ship. Having said that, both Single and Twin engined KEs and Anka-3 drones are not too different than a fighter jet and a bomber jet in their potential capabilities. Just slightly smaller in size and a great deal cheaper. Instead of a 150m partly usable runway of TCG Anadolu (arguably difficult to believe that any jets can safely land on that LHD), they will have a 285 metre long dedicated runway for carrier operations.
A single or twin engined navalised and reworked Hurjet will definitely add a big plus to our naval force projection.

 

[Quasar]

frankly speaking to erase any potantial question marks TEI should be cooking up a supprise '' a new turbofan engine '' in F 404 class

 

[dBSPL]

Images published on TRT News. I got the photos from Avionot. I think 'around 50 aircraft' is one of the specs that are starting to become clear. This means that I think there are at least 30 combatant jet targets when we exclude tactical drones and various types of aircraft such as utility, CSAR, and AEW etc.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Turkish Submarine MİLDEN's Construction to Start in 2025 | TURDEF

Chief of the Turkish Navy Ercüment Tatlıoğlu has stated that the construction of MİLDEN national submarines will begin in 2025.

turdef.com

Milden construction to start in 2025 as disclosed whilst the first Reis Class is being accepted in to naval forces inventory.
Turkish Navy’s real indigenisation of submarine program is to start as a whole from design to finished article, as the MILDEN submarine will be Turkish through and through.
Milden will be the epitome of self sufficiency of Turkish navy in submarines.
As local companies are working on Hydrogen based solutions for the power systems it is expected that a form of AIP based power and drive system is to be utilised in Milden. But as the seas surrounding Turkish mainland are deep enough to support nuclear submarines, a nuclear powered sub can not be excluded either.

View attachment 70241

No news about stm 500 submarine??

 

[Nutuk]

Gezgin cant use the same capsule with Sub Atmaca as there is a huuuge difference in size. But we can say for sure tjat the capsule from ceremony is for Sub Atmaca and probably Hisar Derin

Our gezgin will most likely have similar dimensions as the Tomahawk
That is 5.56m (6.25 with booster)

 

[Strong AI]

frankly speaking to erase any potantial question marks TEI should be cooking up a supprise '' a new turbofan engine '' in F 404 class

Well, look at this then:

"TEI would assemble, inspect, and test the F404 engines, and provide MRO services"

https://www.tei.com.tr/en/media/press-releases/mou-tei-turkish-aerospace-and-ge-aerospace

 

[Baklava Consumer]

Images published on TRT News. I got the photos from Avionot. I think 'around 50 aircraft' is one of the specs that are starting to become clear. This means that I think there are at least 30 combatant jet targets when we exclude tactical drones and various types of aircraft such as utility, CSAR, and AEW etc.

It's just a bigger TCG Anadolu. It adds no new capability to the Turkish Navy whatsoever.
Waste of time and money.

 

[Khagan1923]

Images published on TRT News. I got the photos from Avionot. I think 'around 50 aircraft' is one of the specs that are starting to become clear. This means that I think there are at least 30 combatant jet targets when we exclude tactical drones and various types of aircraft such as utility, CSAR, and AEW etc.

This ship will change so often over the next few years we might not even recognize it anymore by then. Just like TF-2000 has changed with evolving needs and subsystems.

Anyone remember the first TF-2000 designs?

Its always to have discussion like this but we should keep in mind that with an evolving defense industry especially one as fast as Türkiye's things can change in an instant. Just like the Navies needs and wants can change. A couple years ago the talk was about a second LHD now we are at an full blown AC.

I fully expect this design to undergo major changes until it arrives at its first steel cut if it does even arrive there at all. Who knows where the next decade will lead us.

I also don't think that the Navy will be satisfied with Hürjet as its primary fighter. But that is another topic.

 

[Yasar_TR]

This ship will change so often over the next few years we might not even recognize it anymore by then. Just like TF-2000 has changed with evolving needs and subsystems.

Anyone remember the first TF-2000 designs?

Its always to have discussion like this but we should keep in mind that with an evolving defense industry especially one as fast as Türkiye's things can change in an instant. Just like the Navies needs and wants can change. A couple years ago the talk was about a second LHD now we are at an full blown AC.

I fully expect this design to undergo major changes until it arrives at its first steel cut if it does even arrive there at all. Who knows where the next decade will lead us.

I also don't think that the Navy will be satisfied with Hürjet as its primary fighter. But that is another topic.

It s a good and correct decision to design a carrier for the Turkish Navy, since we have the know how to build one; albeit with some help from UK and Spain. .
It will however be the wrong decision to build one under these economic conditions. It is too expensive to build and sustain with our current economy. But in a decade or so from now, it may become a feasible prospect.
Same is the case for TF2000 destroyer. When even a small frigate like I-Class costs best part of 500million dollars to build and equip, a destroyer like TF2000 will far exceed the billion dollar mark.
UK’s six type 45 destroyers each cost 1.4 billion dollars in 2003-2008 period. Pound in today’s inflation corrected is 1.67 times more. That makes 2.35 billion dollars a piece. They were planning to build 12 of them. But remained in 6. According to UK defense Journal, the Type 45 cost to operate is circa 126,000 pounds per day. That is 60million dollars a year.

The soft belly of our defence industry is the motor technology. We need engines for Kaan, Hurjet, KE, Anka-3, atak-t129, Atak-2, Altay, Firtina …….
The air defence project is also a priority case.
We need to turn these above mentioned platforms in to physical realities in our inventory. To do that we need financial resources channelled in to correct targets in accordance with a list of priorities. We also need to produce platforms that we can replace easily with least amount of hassle and pain should we, god forbid, lose them in a fight. At the end of the day, even a large platform like TF2000 is in the mercy of a single torpedo. And it is not a ship that you can send to fight or position in a sea like the Aegean.

Our priority should be Kaan, Anka-3, KE and air defence systems. Plus development of midrange ballistic missiles with capability to hit moving sea targets. (Similar to a Chinese DF21 or even DF21-D). Stationed well inside Anatolian mainland, these missiles can target any ship in the Eastern Med and the Aegean and the targets will not have reasonable means of effective defence against them. I hope we are moving towards that goal with Cenk missile. (There was talk of Tayfun having the capability to hit moving sea targets)

 

[zio]

Second LHD was not bad idea but one LHD is bad idea.You can need it when she was on repairs.