TR Navy Naval Programs

[OPTIMUS]

but what is funny about the matter; the Turkish Navy will know immediately when a Greek AIP submarine is on its way to Germany for refueling. And his absence in the Mediterranean will last a very long time.

 

[Chocopie]

Submarine builders like Germany‘s TKMS (Type 212 CD/214/218 SG) believe in fuel cell AIP coupled with Li-Ion batteries as future propulsion. Therefore also Norway, Italy, Singapore as customers.

Koreans (Hanwha Ocean, HHI) with their German sub tech roots and indigenious PEM fuel cell technology do as well couple AIP + Li-Ion.

Spanish Navantia will deploy bioethanol AIP on their S-80 subs.

French Naval Group (problem-ridden MESMA AIP) and Japanese MHI & KHI (outdated Stirling AIP) are betting on Li-Ion out of sheer necessity in my opinion.

PS: Chinese Type 39A diesel-electric subs use AIP as well. Not much is known about integration of Li-Ion packs but their commercial batteries tend to go up in flames easily

 

[mohammadtd]

NO!!

After TKMN paid a punishment of 100 million Euros to Turkey, the Germans insisted that the Turkish submarines must be refueled in Germany. But they didn't get through.

The Turkish submarines can get maintenance in Turkey but Greek submarines have to go to Germany.

AIP is a very valuable commodity in the submarine. You have to use this technology very sparingly. That's why AIP is primarily intended for creeping speed. Charging takes a very, very long time. Each additional knot reduces the underwater duration of the oversized. It also depends on the discipline of the crew. The Japanese have done 30 days underwater with their first SORYU's. For the Germans 16 days, for Italians 13 days, for the Greeks 11 days. The Japanese may have broken the record with their new SORYU's. Quite possibly. I am curious how long you Turkish submariners could stay under water.

How difficult to develop AIP technology for Milden?

 

[Anmdt]

Seawolves don't have the VLS but I believe could launch TLAMs from the torpedo tubes.

Now i am trying to figure out if there are two sub launched tomahawks. I recall one that is installed via a capsule allowing vertical swim out, does another one have a capsule container as well? This would be challenging if so, maybe a separate capsule to allow swim-out? Appearantly i found out early versions are torpedo tube launched as well.

 

[TheInsider]

Sub-Atmaca training capsule prototype.

Roketsan smart capsule concept

The smart capsule will have its own propulsion, battery, mission computer, INS, and cruise system. The capsule will carry the missile to a predetermined launch spot the missile will be launched from that spot.

Advantages
-Protection of submarine stealth (it can be launched from deep underwater like a torpedo and can travel a considerable distance away from the submarine)
-Optimal use of operation area
-Sudden attack capability and limited reaction time
-Underwater/surface orbit/concept optimization

Tomahawk TLAM Block IV launch from HMS Astute

 

[Kaan Azman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1827424896944894067

It looks like a test is on the horizon because the capsule looks pretty serious, I think we will have like six ATMACA variants in total.

 

[Huelague]

Yes, which Gezgin SLCM? The one that will launch from Reis and Gür, or the one that will launch from Milden?

Attention! Spoiler alert .
Gezgin SLCM, launch from Reis.

 

[Aloster]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1827424896944894067

It looks like a test is on the horizon because the capsule looks pretty serious, I think we will have like six ATMACA variants in total.

Just curiosity, at future, can we see 4 çakır in one encapsulated container. If çakır dimension reduced slightly, 4 can be packed. For example 2 çakır lir , 2 çakır as. Or 4 çakır sw.

 

[Quasar]

https://dam.hensoldt.net/m/21b4ae3b45d1d8e3/original/SERO-420-and-OMS-150-English.pdf

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1827475145201532982

AND concerning the capsule of SUB ATMACA and GEZGİN

 

[Kaan Azman]

Gezgin cant use the same capsule with Sub Atmaca as there is a huuuge difference in size. But we can say for sure tjat the capsule from ceremony is for Sub Atmaca and probably Hisar Derin

 

[dBSPL]

A general summary of the Navy and presidential statements at yesterday's ceremony:

1- National Destroyer: (President Erdoğan) The construction activities of the TF-2000 Air Defense Warfare Destroyer will soon begin at the Istanbul Naval Shipyard Command.

2- The systems mentioned as the aircraft that will serve on the National Aircraft Carrier:

• Hürjet Naval Attack jet,
• Kızılelma and ANKA attack jets,
• Baykar Tactical block-3
• and national helicopters.

While listing these systems, the President described the purpose of the AC as the protection of rights and interests in overseas spheres of influence.

3- New Shipyards: (Naval Forces Commander Admiral Ercüment Tatlıoğlu) Within the scope of increasing the current opportunities and capabilities of the Aksaz Shipyard Command, a dry-dock that can also dock the TCG ANADOLU and the aircraft carrier we will add to the inventory is planned to be put into service in the near future. Our next goal will be the establishment and opening of our Mersin Shipyard, which has critical importance in the Eastern Mediterranean theater of operations.

4- MILDEN National Submarine Project (Admiral Ercüment Tatlıoğlu) The construction of the first of our national submarines will begin in 2025. Our ultimate goal is to equip our national submarine with national systems and devices and use it entirely with national weapons. We will be one of the six countries in the world that can design and build its own submarines.

New Submarine Floating Dock: (Admiral Ercüment Tatlıoğlu) In this context, the 3000-ton indoor submarine pool, where construction, maintenance, repair and modernization activities of submarines can be carried out day and night under all types of climate conditions, was also put into service today. The closed submarine dock is a critical and strategically important part of the national submarine production target and will contribute to the development of national technology.

(With the ceremony held in Aksaz: TCG PİRİREİS Submarine was added to the inventory. TCG MURATREİS Submarine started its sea tests. TCG HIZIRREİS Submarine met with the water. Submarine Floating Dock put into service. Fuel oil vessels added to the inventory)

 

[Yasar_TR]

Turkish Submarine MİLDEN's Construction to Start in 2025 | TURDEF

Chief of the Turkish Navy Ercüment Tatlıoğlu has stated that the construction of MİLDEN national submarines will begin in 2025.

turdef.com

Milden construction to start in 2025 as disclosed whilst the first Reis Class is being accepted in to naval forces inventory.
Turkish Navy’s real indigenisation of submarine program is to start as a whole from design to finished article, as the MILDEN submarine will be Turkish through and through.
Milden will be the epitome of self sufficiency of Turkish navy in submarines.
As local companies are working on Hydrogen based solutions for the power systems it is expected that a form of AIP based power and drive system is to be utilised in Milden. But as the seas surrounding Turkish mainland are deep enough to support nuclear submarines, a nuclear powered sub can not be excluded either.

 

[Yasar_TR]

TF-2000 Hava Savunma Muhribi için beklenen açıklama geldi | SavunmaSanayiST

Cumhurbaşkanı Erdoğan, TF-2000 Hava Savunma Harbi Muhribi hakkında kritik bir açıklamada bulundu. TF-2000'in inşa faaliyetlerinin yakında başlaması bekleniyor.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Finally The President has disclosed that the long awaited construction work on the TF2000 destroyer is to start shortly in İstanbul shipyards.
Although 4 x TF2000 program was first planned to be the 9th to 12th ships of the Milgem series, with the decision of producing 4 more I-Class frigates these slots were given to the İstanbul Class frigates. In stead the 4 x TF2000 destroyers will be the 13th to 16th MILGEM ships of the series.
First of these ships is expected to be in the inventory by 2030.

 

[Quasar]

 

[Khagan1923]

Gonna some numbers out my behind for short while but if we say that entering the 2030s the Navy has;

2x TF-2000 (192 Cells)
8x Istif (128 Cells)
4x MLU MEKO-200 TNII (48 Cells)
2x Hisar OPV with 1x4(?) MIDLAS for Sapan (8 Cells)
4x Gabya (32 Cells)

they will have a VLS cell count of 408, not taking into account possible VLS cells on MILDEN if those even make it until then into the inventory of the Navy. Maybe Ada-Class MLU will also see VLS be added though I suppose the MLU for Ada will not happen before the early-mid 2030s.

By mid 2030s the Turkish Navy could have upwards of 600 VLS cells in its inventory Rivaling the UK and outnumbering countries such as France and Italy, of course they too will built and are building new ships and will see their VLS cell count grow.

Nevertheless in the near future the Turkish Navy will rival if not even outnumber other "Major" navies in VLS cell count.

Just as comparison, the Navy currently has 86 VLS Cells with TCG Istanbul.

In ten years that number could see itself be multipled by 10 depending on how many TF-2000 they are able to produce in the next 10 years (4-8) and if the 96 Cells are finalized.

 

[Anmdt]

Just curiosity, at future, can we see 4 çakır in one encapsulated container. If çakır dimension reduced slightly, 4 can be packed. For example 2 çakır lir , 2 çakır as. Or 4 çakır sw.

This may not be possible but it doesn't hold us back from thinking Çakır in Orka - kind capsule. If Roketsan pulls self propelled capsule tech for Atmaca and apply it to Orka, we may get our UUV / USV to utilize.

 

[Anmdt]

Gezgin cant use the same capsule with Sub Atmaca as there is a huuuge difference in size. But we can say for sure tjat the capsule from ceremony is for Sub Atmaca and probably Hisar Derin

Hisar Derin is a project of Aselsan and i doubt if it is alive. Meanwhile Navy has alternative plans and missiles to deploy for submarine based SAM.

 

[Oublious]

I assume this is Amerkom, so they did started the design phase of the AC. Looks like we are going to make Hurjet more then it is, otherwhise this will be a expensive DC Drone Carrier.

 

[TheInsider]

I assume this is Amerkom, so they did started the design phase of the AC. Looks like we are going to make Hurjet more then it is, otherwhise this will be a expensive DC Drone Carrier.

From what i see, this looks like they are slowly finishing the concept design phase and moving to the detailed design phase. You don't do detailed hydrodynamic calculations for Propeller, bulkhead etc in the concept design. It seems Armerkom put real manpower behind the project probably political will behind the project is off the charts.

 

[Lool]

A general summary of the Navy and presidential statements at yesterday's ceremony:

1- National Destroyer: (President Erdoğan) The construction activities of the TF-2000 Air Defense Warfare Destroyer will soon begin at the Istanbul Naval Shipyard Command.

2- The systems mentioned as the aircraft that will serve on the National Aircraft Carrier:

• Hürjet Naval Attack jet,
• Kızılelma and ANKA attack jets,
• Baykar Tactical block-3
• and national helicopters.

While listing these systems, the President described the purpose of the AC as the protection of rights and interests in overseas spheres of influence.

3- New Shipyards: (Naval Forces Commander Admiral Ercüment Tatlıoğlu) Within the scope of increasing the current opportunities and capabilities of the Aksaz Shipyard Command, a dry-dock that can also dock the TCG ANADOLU and the aircraft carrier we will add to the inventory is planned to be put into service in the near future. Our next goal will be the establishment and opening of our Mersin Shipyard, which has critical importance in the Eastern Mediterranean theater of operations.

4- MILDEN National Submarine Project (Admiral Ercüment Tatlıoğlu) The construction of the first of our national submarines will begin in 2025. Our ultimate goal is to equip our national submarine with national systems and devices and use it entirely with national weapons. We will be one of the six countries in the world that can design and build its own submarines.

New Submarine Floating Dock: (Admiral Ercüment Tatlıoğlu) In this context, the 3000-ton indoor submarine pool, where construction, maintenance, repair and modernization activities of submarines can be carried out day and night under all types of climate conditions, was also put into service today. The closed submarine dock is a critical and strategically important part of the national submarine production target and will contribute to the development of national technology.

(With the ceremony held in Aksaz: TCG PİRİREİS Submarine was added to the inventory. TCG MURATREİS Submarine started its sea tests. TCG HIZIRREİS Submarine met with the water. Submarine Floating Dock put into service. Fuel oil vessels added to the inventory)

So KAAN wont be deployed on the national AC to be built?