TR Navy Naval Programs

[Sanchez]

TCG Akhisar is set to start its testing phase next month.

And here she is as promised. I see the 76mm gun, AKR-D for the gun, MAR-D radar, Ahtapot Denizgözü EO system, with LPI radars at the mast and aft and an ESM system.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1867232520435331579

 

[TheInsider]

Yeah, it looks like Unirobotics is chosen even after replacing some people in the Asfat administration.

 

[Anmdt]

Looks like they went with Unirobotics.

Unirobotics didn't complete the harbor acceptance tests on time and didn't complete the majority of the tests required to accept the system.

They also didn't complete the integration process in time.

So at the moment it's the only system that's sailing that hasn't completed the Harbour Acceptance Tests (HAT).

They are going with unirobotics since they made the deal two years ago and waited for them to develop rcws (not calling is stabilized, I can't dare to put it in that category when compared to stamp).

Anyway, it is a long way to see what happens, but I am sad to see that no one dares to impose fines on unirobotics for delays and not fulfilling the requirements. We have seen what happens when a company is protected by higher authorities (Sancak's BMC). It never benefits the country or the armed forces. I can't polish unirobotcis after seeing how they fail in the field and are protected by higher ups to get a go and get milestone payments.

I don't have a fetish to talk negatively when it comes to new products, you don't hear me talk bad about Tubitak's Yelkovan ED or MKE's 76mm since both do what promised, and do it in the given and agreed time. (CMS integration etc. FAT,HAT, SAT).

 

[IC3M@N FX]

What are the plans for further Istanbul class ships for the Turkish Navy?
How far is the design phase of the Turkish destroyers, the TCG Anadolu does not need to go to foreign waters if it does not have a decent escort for air defense, ship and anti-submarine warfare.
Let alone exert pressure on the Black Sea and the Mediterranean.

 

[uçuyorum]

What are the plans for further Istanbul class ships for the Turkish Navy?
How far is the design phase of the Turkish destroyers, the TCG Anadolu does not need to go to foreign waters if it does not have a decent escort for air defense, ship and anti-submarine warfare.
Let alone exert pressure on the Black Sea and the Mediterranean.

You frequent here so I thought you would know, anyways 3 ships in construction and 4 more to follow for istifs, and TF2000 has gone through a lot of design iterations but we have been hearing any day now for the finalisation of design and start of construction

 

[Yasar_TR]

You frequent here so I thought you would know, anyways 3 ships in construction and 4 more to follow for istifs, and TF2000 has gone through a lot of design iterations but we have been hearing any day now for the finalisation of design and start of construction

Just to add and correct if I may :

Milgem project as we know it stands at 12 ships;

Ships consisting of 4 Ada Class corvettes and are, no 1 to 4
Ship No 5 is TCG Istanbul
Ships No 6 to 8 are under construction and will be finished all together.
Ships No 9 and 10 have had their steel cutting. (See no 10 pic below)
Ships No 11 and 12 were awaiting steel cutting.

Yeni İstif sınıfı fırkateynin inşasına başlandı!

Bu yılın 1 Temmuz Denizcilik ve Kabotaj Bayramı, Türk deniz sanayiinin gurur verici bir başarısı ile taçlandı. Türkiye'nin denizcilik sanayisindeki başarısını bir kez daha gözler önüne seren, TCG İzmit sonrası yapılacak olan 10 numaralı istif sınıfı fırkateynin sac kesim töreni gerçekleştirildi.

www.defenceturk.net

TF2000 destroyer is awaiting steel cutting, unless more design changes are implemented. As it stands the construction work program has been officially launched by Asfat. Steel cutting ceremony was arranged. But RTE had to postpone it due to his busy personal program.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1839257602573689008

quote:
According to information published by ASFAT on September 20, 2024, Turkey has officially launched the construction of its first domestically designed and produced air defense destroyer, the TF-2000.
unquote.

Turkish firm begins construction of its first indigenous Air Defense Destroyer TF-2000

Turkish company initiates construction of its first domestically designed TF-2000 Air Defense Destroyer.

armyrecognition.com

 

[BalkanTurk90]

As i now , 5 istanbul class are under contruction , 3 of them we may see at their complete form for few month like with hisar opv .
2 of them just steel cutting few month ago .
Tf2000 no official yet but some of its parts are under contrstruction .
I want to know about :
1- Other 8 Hisar class ? Will they be build all in same time and how aboit its SAMs ?
2- Stm 500 submarine ??
3- FAC program of 10 of them ??!
4- New Tank landing ships like bayraktar but bigger ??

 

[Anmdt]

Just to add and correct if I may :

Milgem project as we know it stands at 12 ships;

Ships consisting of 4 Ada Class corvettes and are, no 1 to 4
Ship No 5 is TCG Istanbul
Ships No 6 to 8 are under construction and will be finished all together.
Ships No 9 and 10 have had their steel cutting. (See no 10 pic below)
Ships No 11 and 12 were awaiting steel cutting.

View attachment 72672

Yeni İstif sınıfı fırkateynin inşasına başlandı!

Bu yılın 1 Temmuz Denizcilik ve Kabotaj Bayramı, Türk deniz sanayiinin gurur verici bir başarısı ile taçlandı. Türkiye'nin denizcilik sanayisindeki başarısını bir kez daha gözler önüne seren, TCG İzmit sonrası yapılacak olan 10 numaralı istif sınıfı fırkateynin sac kesim töreni gerçekleştirildi.

www.defenceturk.net

TF2000 destroyer is awaiting steel cutting, unless more design changes are implemented. As it stands the construction work program has been officially launched by Asfat. Steel cutting ceremony was arranged. But RTE had to postpone it due to his busy personal program.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1839257602573689008

quote:
According to information published by ASFAT on September 20, 2024, Turkey has officially launched the construction of its first domestically designed and produced air defense destroyer, the TF-2000.
unquote.

Turkish firm begins construction of its first indigenous Air Defense Destroyer TF-2000

Turkish company initiates construction of its first domestically designed TF-2000 Air Defense Destroyer.

armyrecognition.com

It wasn't Erdogan's busy schedule, TF-2000's steel cutting wasn't meant to be done at the date Naval Insider had made up .

TF-2000's design is maturing after changes, it may take time.

 

[Ripley]

Just to add and correct if I may :

Milgem project as we know it stands at 12 ships;

Ships consisting of 4 Ada Class corvettes and are, no 1 to 4
Ship No 5 is TCG Istanbul
Ships No 6 to 8 are under construction and will be finished all together.
Ships No 9 and 10 have had their steel cutting. (See no 10 pic below)
Ships No 11 and 12 were awaiting steel cutting.

View attachment 72672

Yeni İstif sınıfı fırkateynin inşasına başlandı!

Bu yılın 1 Temmuz Denizcilik ve Kabotaj Bayramı, Türk deniz sanayiinin gurur verici bir başarısı ile taçlandı. Türkiye'nin denizcilik sanayisindeki başarısını bir kez daha gözler önüne seren, TCG İzmit sonrası yapılacak olan 10 numaralı istif sınıfı fırkateynin sac kesim töreni gerçekleştirildi.

www.defenceturk.net

TF2000 destroyer is awaiting steel cutting, unless more design changes are implemented. As it stands the construction work program has been officially launched by Asfat. Steel cutting ceremony was arranged. But RTE had to postpone it due to his busy personal program.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1839257602573689008

quote:
According to information published by ASFAT on September 20, 2024, Turkey has officially launched the construction of its first domestically designed and produced air defense destroyer, the TF-2000.
unquote.

Turkish firm begins construction of its first indigenous Air Defense Destroyer TF-2000

Turkish company initiates construction of its first domestically designed TF-2000 Air Defense Destroyer.

armyrecognition.com

Within the last year, IIRC, the idea of an in-between class of 4K-5K hull resurfaced (or that was the impression I got from defense circles).

Are there any developments regarding this project or is there even any intension, say like, make a lighter version of TF2000 around 6-7K tons that would completely meet all mission requirements and fill the gap comfortably between İstif class and TF2000?

edit:
Main mission is to keep up with TCG Anadolu and TF2000 on open seas and fulfilling all mission profiles necessary to perform independent fleet actions.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Within the last year, IIRC, the idea of an in-between class of 4K-5K hull resurfaced (or that was the impression I got from defense circles).

Are there any developments regarding this project or is there even any intension, say like, make a lighter version of TF2000 around 6-7K tons that would completely meet all mission requirements and fill the gap comfortably between İstif class and TF2000?

edit:
Main mission is to keep up with TCG Anadolu and TF2000 on open seas and fulfilling all mission profiles necessary to perform independent fleet actions.

I think your question about the 4K to 5K hull, would best be answered by @Anmdt.
The in-between tonnage platform has been on the board for quite sometime, albeit having been put on the back burner a number of times.
It is however, the logical way to go.
Considering the proliferation of the anti ship missiles of all types, be it subsonic or supersonic or even hypersonic; They are going to be the main adversaries of any large seafaring assets you will have in your navy. Oceans and the seas of the world were big and endless expanses in the 1940s. You had to send planes searching for enemy fleets. Nowadays, satellites and long range radars on planes have rendered the seas and oceans all accessible. Your billion + dollar assets will be the number one targets for those missiles. They will be the first casualties of any modern war. I am not even going to mention the deadly submarines with their AShMs and modern long range torpedoes.

So, how clever is it to invest in these large and expensive ships? There is no place to hide in the sea, unless you are deeply submerged. If we had to invest in surface combatants, I would rather invest in two ocean faring smaller, 4 to 5K ton frigates than one large destroyer. Our last decision for a further 4 I-Class ships making the total of 8, was the right move.

 

[Ripley]

So, how clever is it to invest in these large and expensive ships? There is no place to hide in the sea, unless you are deeply submerged. If we had to invest in surface combatants, I would rather invest in two ocean faring smaller, 4 to 5K ton frigates than one large destroyer. Our last decision for a further 4 I-Class ships making the total of 8, was the right move.

@Yasar_TR abi +4 İstif was something that most of us could only hope for and like you said it was a fantastic move.
What I keep wondering for years now is, will it perform any given task fleet operations properly while accompanying Anadolu and TF2000? If my memory serves me well, its some design characteristics were quite limiting. Among those limitations, top of my head, was sea state operation requirement which was state 5 where as TF2000 will have been designed to operate at sea state 6. This criteria alone takes it out of the picture of an independent fleet operation complementary role.

I don’t know. But I really wonder what will a TN independent fleet composition be like? After seeing such a composition of vessels, maybe we can better understand what kind fleet operations TN would be capable of.

 

[Anmdt]

Do you know the reason why they want to place only one NAZAR DIRCM? Is it because of the power output of the generators?

No, similarly the AC design with abundant amount of power generation features one Nazar. Possibly a cost optimization and seen to be enough for the current set of threats combined with other weapon systems but i am certain that they spare a spot for the second one, to be installed later when it is convenient.

 

[Anmdt]

I think your question about the 4K to 5K hull, would best be answered by @Anmdt.
The in-between tonnage platform has been on the board for quite sometime, albeit having been put on the back burner a number of times.
It is however, the logical way to go.
Considering the proliferation of the anti ship missiles of all types, be it subsonic or supersonic or even hypersonic; They are going to be the main adversaries of any large seafaring assets you will have in your navy. Oceans and the seas of the world were big and endless expanses in the 1940s. You had to send planes searching for enemy fleets. Nowadays, satellites and long range radars on planes have rendered the seas and oceans all accessible. Your billion + dollar assets will be the number one targets for those missiles. They will be the first casualties of any modern war. I am not even going to mention the deadly submarines with their AShMs and modern long range torpedoes.

So, how clever is it to invest in these large and expensive ships? There is no place to hide in the sea, unless you are deeply submerged. If we had to invest in surface combatants, I would rather invest in two ocean faring smaller, 4 to 5K ton frigates than one large destroyer. Our last decision for a further 4 I-Class ships making the total of 8, was the right move.

I rumored it before, TN likely is following the global trend and they will create all necessary solutions through TF-2000 design. While 5K frigate was crucial for exports too, (Dearsan still markets the design and TAIS works on one design), TN now focuses on TF-2000 and all necessary classes will be derived from it. Like how OPV was derived from Ada Class.

 

[uçuyorum]

I rumored it before, TN likely is following the global trend and they will create all necessary solutions through TF-2000 design. While 5K frigate was crucial for exports too, (Dearsan still markets the design and TAIS works on one design), TN now focuses on TF-2000 and all necessary classes will be derived from it. Like how OPV was derived from Ada Class.

I had also heard that they've foregone 4-5k design for more istifs and tf2000 instead

 

[Yasar_TR]

@Yasar_TR abi +4 İstif was something that most of us could only hope for and like you said it was a fantastic move.
What I keep wondering for years now is, will it perform any given task fleet operations properly while accompanying Anadolu and TF2000? If my memory serves me well, its some design characteristics were quite limiting. Among those limitations, top of my head, was sea state operation requirement which was state 5 where as TF2000 will have been designed to operate at sea state 6. This criteria alone takes it out of the picture of an independent fleet operation complementary role.

I don’t know. But I really wonder what will a TN independent fleet composition be like? After seeing such a composition of vessels, maybe we can better understand what kind fleet operations TN would be capable of.

Apparently there are quite a few differences in the body design with respect to sea state durability between the Ada Class and the I-Class ships. Naval News gives in her specifications, “unconditional operations under sea state 5” .
Well, Ada Class ship TCG Kinaliada, managed to sail through the Indian and part of the Pacific Oceans to visit Japan. The I-Class ship is supposedly a more capable and ”enhanced endurance” version of the Ada Class.
Sea State operations capabilities are all relative. Yes, a large destroyer like Zumwalt has proven that it can function at Sea State 6. But How accurate the missiles will be? Can the helicopters be operational? Sea state 5 means 2.5-4 metre high waves. Sea state 6 means 4 to 6 metre high waves. What happens to sea-skimming AShMs?

At the moment, even though we have seas on 3 sides, we are still restricted by a large inland sea. We don’t have direct, unrestricted access to open oceans. Neither does Italy. But it has carriers and force projection capability in open seas.
If we are to become an industrial powerhouse and have to protect our industrial and commercial assets overseas, then we need to have larger vessels that have been purpose built. Albeit with provisions that they will be number one targets.

Turkey launches the lead ship of I-class frigates “Istanbul” - Naval News

Istanbul Shipyard today launched the lead ship of the I-class frigates, the future TCG Istanbul (pennant number: F-515). The ceremony hosted VIP guests including President of Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Ministry of Defence Hulusi Akar, Chief of the Turkish Armed Forces and Chief of the Turkish...

www.navalnews.com

 

[hugh]

Ministry of National Defence Yaşar Güler: The first sheet metal cutting in the TF-2000 Air Defense Warfare Destroyer and Domestic Aircraft Carrier projects will be done in the first half of 2025.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1868225105286877641

TF-2000 was expected but the metal cutting of the AC in the next 6 months? Oh come on!

 

[Anmdt]

Ministry of National Defence Yaşar Güler: The first sheet metal cutting in the TF-2000 Air Defense Warfare Destroyer and Domestic Aircraft Carrier projects will be done in the first half of 2025.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1868225105286877641

TF-2000 was expected but the metal cutting of the AC in the next 6 months? Oh come on!

Technically speaking they have no place to build AC. Drydock of İstanbul Naval Shipyard (İNS) does not allow the draft of AC, and it has to be dug up and rebuilt in place. They will build few blocks of AC to release a budget (use it as a propaganda tool) and continue with preliminary design phase.

However, i won't be surprised to see if this turns out to be TCG Trakya. But again, it is not build in İNS, but Sedef Shipyard. He is referring to a ceremony in İNS.

And for TF2000 we may see a full speed ahead level construction in by end of 2026. Design has parts to be completed.

 

[Ripley]

I rumored it before, TN likely is following the global trend and they will create all necessary solutions through TF-2000 design. While 5K frigate was crucial for exports too, (Dearsan still markets the design and TAIS works on one design), TN now focuses on TF-2000 and all necessary classes will be derived from it. Like how OPV was derived from Ada Class.

Apparently there are quite a few differences in the body design with respect to sea state durability between the Ada Class and the I-Class ships. Naval News gives in her specifications, “unconditional operations under sea state 5” .
Well, Ada Class ship TCG Kinaliada, managed to sail through the Indian and part of the Pacific Oceans to visit Japan. The I-Class ship is supposedly a more capable and ”enhanced endurance” version of the Ada Class.
Sea State operations capabilities are all relative. Yes, a large destroyer like Zumwalt has proven that it can function at Sea State 6. But How accurate the missiles will be? Can the helicopters be operational? Sea state 5 means 2.5-4 metre high waves. Sea state 6 means 4 to 6 metre high waves. What happens to sea-skimming AShMs?

At the moment, even though we have seas on 3 sides, we are still restricted by a large inland sea. We don’t have direct, unrestricted access to open oceans. Neither does Italy. But it has carriers and force projection capability in open seas.
If we are to become an industrial powerhouse and have to protect our industrial and commercial assets overseas, then we need to have larger vessels that have been purpose built. Albeit with provisions that they will be number one targets.

Turkey launches the lead ship of I-class frigates “Istanbul” - Naval News

Istanbul Shipyard today launched the lead ship of the I-class frigates, the future TCG Istanbul (pennant number: F-515). The ceremony hosted VIP guests including President of Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Ministry of Defence Hulusi Akar, Chief of the Turkish Armed Forces and Chief of the Turkish...

www.navalnews.com

I believe I got my answer.
Any in-between class, if one even considered, will be derived from TF2000.
Sounds most logical approach when you think about it. Milgem line’s derivatives becoming more and more popular.
And now it seems that we might be going for another line of ship, namely TF2000 and it’s derivatives.

I think I got a better picture now.
Thank you both for your replies.

 

[TR_123456]

Apparently there are quite a few differences in the body design with respect to sea state durability between the Ada Class and the I-Class ships. Naval News gives in her specifications, “unconditional operations under sea state 5” .
Well, Ada Class ship TCG Kinaliada, managed to sail through the Indian and part of the Pacific Oceans to visit Japan. The I-Class ship is supposedly a more capable and ”enhanced endurance” version of the Ada Class.
Sea State operations capabilities are all relative. Yes, a large destroyer like Zumwalt has proven that it can function at Sea State 6. But How accurate the missiles will be? Can the helicopters be operational? Sea state 5 means 2.5-4 metre high waves. Sea state 6 means 4 to 6 metre high waves. What happens to sea-skimming AShMs?

At the moment, even though we have seas on 3 sides, we are still restricted by a large inland sea. We don’t have direct, unrestricted access to open oceans. Neither does Italy. But it has carriers and force projection capability in open seas.
If we are to become an industrial powerhouse and have to protect our industrial and commercial assets overseas, then we need to have larger vessels that have been purpose built. Albeit with provisions that they will be number one targets.

Turkey launches the lead ship of I-class frigates “Istanbul” - Naval News

Istanbul Shipyard today launched the lead ship of the I-class frigates, the future TCG Istanbul (pennant number: F-515). The ceremony hosted VIP guests including President of Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Ministry of Defence Hulusi Akar, Chief of the Turkish Armed Forces and Chief of the Turkish...

www.navalnews.com

Dont we need the 4/5k ton frigates if we want to become a ''blue water'' navy?
Lets face it ,TF-2000 alone wont cut it.
AC,2 TF-2000,1/2 Milden,1 LSS and then what?
The old OHP's?
How to form a battle group?

 

[Ripley]

Dont we need the 4/5k ton frigates if we want to become a ''blue water'' navy?
Lets face it ,TF-2000 alone wont cut it.
AC,2 TF-2000,1/2 Milden,1 LSS and then what?
The old OHP's?
How to form a battle group?

This is what I gathered from what @Yasar_TR abi and @Anmdt wrote

I believe I got my answer.
Any in-between class, if one even considered, will be derived from TF2000.
Sounds most logical approach when you think about it. Milgem line’s derivatives becoming more and more popular.
And now it seems that we might be going for another line of ship, namely TF2000 and it’s derivatives.

I think I got a better picture now.
Thank you both for your replies.

Seems like we’ll have to do with İstif Class until a lighter TF2000 derivative design comes out, IF they decide to do so.