TR Navy Naval Programs

[uçuyorum]

So it has come to where I wanted, our version of Karakurt corvette. I hope all our ships with atmaca can optionally deploy gezgin or kara atmaca as well.

 

[Osman]

If this is the final version that will be produced soon, it is a light corvette. The classical approach defines corvette as bigger than 500 tonnes and less than 2 000.

The navy continues to grow in terms of tonnage

 

[Khagan1923]

Supposedly from Anadolu Shipyard but I could not confirm it.

 

[Sanchez]

Supposedly from Anadolu Shipyard but I could not confirm it.

They are from their webpage.

https://www.anadolushipyard.com/katalog/insasi-devam-eden-projeler/i-class-frigate-milgem

F-516, F-519 and F-522(Milgem-6, 9 and 12) are the Istif class ships contracted to Anadolu.

 

[Kaan Azman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1883853129860747771

Turkish Navy has been talking about nuclear subs a bit too often so one wonders

 

[Sanchez]

Turkish Navy has been talking about nuclear subs a bit too often so one wonders

Second time in a year now. It's definitely in the plans.

Excerpt from "A REVIEW OF FRANCE'S NEW GENERATION BARRACUDA CLASS NUCLEAR-PROPELLED SUBMARINES (SSN)" in DzKK official gazette January 2024 issue

"With the recent commissioning of the Akkuyu Nuclear Power Plant, Turkey will take its place among the countries using nuclear energy. Subsequently, it is foreseen that knowledge and experience in nuclear energy in all sectors, both civilian and military, will increase in a short period of time and this energy will be integrated into new capacity building areas.

In addition, the introduction of nuclear technology in Turkey is also a turning point for the planned national nuclear-powered submarine programme in the medium term. It is inevitable that the transition to nuclear-propelled submarines will lead to critical developments for the Turkish Naval Forces.

In particular, the indigenous heavy torpedo AKYA and the submarine-launched ATMACA G/M will add strength to the power of our submarines, and with the acquisition of long-range GEZGİN cruise missile capability by our nuclear submarines, our submarines will become one of the most effective weapons in the world.

In the process of transition to nuclear energy, considering our limited knowledge and experience in the field, it is considered that there are various issues that need to be taken into consideration for our Naval Forces. Apart from the operation and maintenance of the nuclear reactor, which is a highly technical issue, it is important that projects in line with our concept of submarine utilisation and preliminary preparations for the training of submariner personnel be initiated now. Thus, the foresighted plans to be made as early as the project design phase will provide guidance in solving problems before they arise."

https://www.dzkk.tsk.tr/Content/Upload/Docs/Ocak_2024_Dergi.pdf

 

[boredaf]

Second time in a year now. It's definitely in the plans.

I would much prefer that we devote our resources to a nuclear submarine program instead of a carrier in the first place. With our geographical location, nuclear subs would help us far more than a carrier.

 

[Sanchez]

I would much prefer that we devote our resources to a nuclear submarine program instead of a carrier in the first place. With our geographical location, nuclear subs would help us far more than a carrier.

If we have the need of an SSN over an AIP SSK with quadruple the endurance, we probably also have the need for a carrier. What value does an SSN add over a large AIP SSK with VLS? Greater endurance over open seas. If we have a need to be present in the Indian Ocean with such a submarine, we should also have the relevant amphibious force projection capability with organic air support as well.

It's only fitting, they don't exist in separate planes. And don't quote me on this, but the carrier will probably be cheaper to run than an SSN.

 

[dBSPL]

Once vertical launch capability is achieved on an air-independent propelled attack submarine under the MILDEN program, nuclear propulsion is all that remains—a politically sense, when considered in conjunction with the Navy’s expansion vision after reaching deterrent power projection.

If my memory serves me correctly, the president also said in one of his speeches that he had such a wish. This may have more to do with which institution provides this technical content to the person who writes the text on the prompter rather than a personal wish of the president. For example, while some people labeled the aircraft carrier as the president's personal dream, today it is understood that the naval forces were working on the issue before it was even included in the speeches.

Also, I don't know if a parallel can be drawn, but we often hear news about wanting to produce our own nuclear fuel rods for our power plants, and also about wanting the SMR industry in our country within industrial cooparations.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

The question is where to get these special nuclear reactors from, neither the USA, China/Russia and the EU will sell them nor will they provide the technical know-how. Nuclear reactors for ships and submarines are needed if you want to pursue absolute geopolitics.
Nobody would want to support us there, nobody wants an additional player at the table, so there is only one option left... to focus our own development in this direction. But it will be at least 10 years before something useful comes along.

 

[Yasar_TR]

If we have the need of an SSN over an AIP SSK with quadruple the endurance, we probably also have the need for a carrier. What value does an SSN add over a large AIP SSK with VLS? Greater endurance over open seas. If we have a need to be present in the Indian Ocean with such a submarine, we should also have the relevant amphibious force projection capability with organic air support as well.

It's only fitting, they don't exist in separate planes. And don't quote me on this, but the carrier will probably be cheaper to run than an SSN.

A carrier will need a submarine to protect her. But an attack submarine doesn’t need a carrier to perform her duties.
The clear advantage of a nuclear submarine is apparent, whichever way look at it.

Quote:
The submarine, due to its stealth advantage and relatively cheaper cost compared to aircraft carriers has been seen by many as a far better alternative to the expensive and “vulnerable” aircraft carriers.
unquote.

The main advantage of the submarine is the ability to operate separately from other forces, unlike carriers, who must be escorted by other ships to protect them from attack. Submarine’s stealth is also a very big advantage. Where as carriers are in the open and susceptible to air, surface and under water attacks.

A 4700 ton French Suffren Nuclear submarine cost 1.6 billion dollars each.
7000 ton Astute nuclear submarine cost 2.1 billion dollars each. Annual cost is at 12.5 million dollars.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7f4342e5274a2e87db4c91/20150820-2015-06437_Fish__redacted.pdf

Annual cost of QE2 Carrier is 120 million dollars. That does not include the operational cost of the air wing.

How much does a Queen Elizabeth class carrier cost per year?

A Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier costs £96 million per year to operate.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

@IC3M@N FX has hit the nail on the head!
Reactor is the heart of any nuclear submarine

Interesting article on the subject

Is the Turkish Navy Considering Nuclear Submarines? | TURDEF

In its last two issues, the Turkish Navy’s magazine explored the capabilities of nuclear-powered submarines, sparking speculation about interest in them.

turdef.com

 

[boredaf]

What value does an SSN add over a large AIP SSK with VLS

As far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, but nuclear submarines usually carry far more torpedoes/missiles than diesel submarines, as they are usually far larger. And since Mediterranean is deep sea, they could remain pretty well hidden and remain submerged for far longer which gives them an advantage in first strike capability. So it wouldn't be for just force projection, it would increase our naval power in our own waters and I think that should be our first and foremost aim when planning not just our navy but all of our military.

 

[Kaan Azman]

Idea of the Navy appears to be a nuclear submarine being a pillar of the CSG, not a substitute for MUGEM. They see it as a paver and an extra eye to hang around at the front.

 

[uçuyorum]

As far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, but nuclear submarines usually carry far more torpedoes/missiles than diesel submarines, as they are usually far larger. And since Mediterranean is deep sea, they could remain pretty well hidden and remain submerged for far longer which gives them an advantage in first strike capability. So it wouldn't be for just force projection, it would increase our naval power in our own waters and I think that should be our first and foremost aim when planning not just our navy but all of our military.

I mean depends on size. Ohio class is 16000 tonnes and can carry 7 tomahawk in a cell or same cell can carry one ballistic missile. It's huge, heavier than ticonderoga cruiser

 

[boredaf]

I mean depends on size. Ohio class is 16000 tonnes and can carry 7 tomahawk in a cell or same cell can carry one ballistic missile. It's huge, heavier than ticonderoga cruiser

Ohio class is a nuclear submarine though?

 

[uçuyorum]

Ohio class is a nuclear submarine though?

Yes that's what I was responding to, you can have huge nuclear subs, there are those smaller than milden as well.

 

[boredaf]

Yes that's what I was responding to, you can have huge nuclear subs, there are those smaller than milden as well.

And I would expect that we would want something definitely bigger. Then, we can have more than enough force to protect our claims around Mediterranean with far fewer risks than a carrier group would face.

 

[chngr]

What value does an SSN add over a large AIP SSK with VLS?

More speed...and it can sustain this all the time

 

[Anmdt]

What value does an SSN add over a large AIP SSK with VLS? Greater endurance over open seas.

Particularly these two matters:

Higher submerged speed - evasion once detected or fleeing after delivering payloads (mines, spy AUVs etc.), yet contradicts the silence propulsion while doing so and only to be used when submarine is "detected", or when the crew believes they are detected.

Eliminating snorkeling, it is done frequently and not really a cool event, the sub can neither cease it immediately and dive, if caught, and it is necessary for the batteries.

Plus batteries are not cool, heats up and constantly cooled if loaded heavily and generates gases (particularly at high speeds).

Does it worth the bang? I am not sure too, it is currently just a plan ahead of Milden. We first will have Milden-I, then Milden-II and maybe lastly what they call as "Nukden". Officially circulating with the high command so they have it in the long term plans since awhile ago, but "long term" here is crucial. Probably referrring to 20+, 30+ years from now.

And i am assured at those dates SMR's will be something similar to submarine diesel engines which you may plug and go.

 

[Saithan]

Particularly these two matters:

Higher submerged speed - evasion once detected or fleeing after delivering payloads (mines, spy AUVs etc.), yet contradicts the silence propulsion while doing so and only to be used when submarine is "detected", or when the crew believes they are detected.

Eliminating snorkeling, it is done frequently and not really a cool event, the sub can neither cease it immediately and dive, if caught, and it is necessary for the batteries.

Plus batteries are not cool, heats up and constantly cooled if loaded heavily and generates gases (particularly at high speeds).

Does it worth the bang? I am not sure too, it is currently just a plan ahead of Milden. We first will have Milden-I, then Milden-II and maybe lastly what they call as "Nukden". Officially circulating with the high command so they have it in the long term plans since awhile ago, but "long term" here is crucial. Probably referrring to 20+, 30+ years from now.

And i am assured at those dates SMR's will be something similar to submarine diesel engines which you may plug and go.

Do you know if there any work in progres on making smaller and more compact nuclear power plant for submersible platforms ? In the world I mean. I would imagine that we would need to be able to build our own nuclear power plants in order to venture into anything like nuclear subs, but I could be wrong.