Personal concepts - Sea

[Nilgiri]

Av-8 harriers are blamed for being subsonic. What if you put second engine vertically british electric lightning ( mach2 speed) has vertical two engine.
You just add lift nozzles to the bottom engine and get a supersonic vtol fighter.

Hehe, but did you account for the CofG of the lightning?

It would be around the wing area somewhere (for very important reason) and thus you need another set of lift fans in front of it to counter the moment arm and have straight up/down (and also option to trim etc).

Harrier you will notice does this (bleeds forward duct air from the compressor stage)...and combined with the aft ducts (from engine exhaust) impose massive requirements on the raw air needed to operate this way. This is why the harrier has massive air intakes compared to its size.

It is those air intakes that impose the massive penalty on the aircraft not being able to go supersonic (given what intake ramps would impose on the system on intake that large - a design and operation nightmare) rather than the engine raw thrust itself. They figured this out late in design/testing process and prioritised it continuing as VTOL (and dropped the supersonic req.)

These problems are inherent to duct system, it would not really change by putting another engine on top (as you would still have to massive frontal air intake for the lower engine)....as on paper Harrier already has enough thrust to go supersonic relative to its weight...it is rather restricted by the massive shock waves that would develop in transonic region at its air intakes.

Also you would have to change the very nature of the lightning's shock cone inlet to do this (to something resembling harrier), that is a major re-design.

Simply put, you are 100% correct how F-35 does it is far more elegant and efficient. Yak-141 got along the right idea (dedicated lift jets in forward section)...but F-35 really went extra mile and simply put fan there (skip all other nonsense and weight) and have drive shaft for it running from engine RPM.

 

[Turko]

@Nilgiri i feel naked against your long explanation

First things first,
You can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs!

 

[Nilgiri]

You can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs!

Here we are, moving on to the food yet again

I like the lightning a lot btw, I used to think it was really ugly, but it has grown on me over the years to the point I really like it heh.

I only responded coz the picture caught my eye.

I like your out of the box thinking buddy.

 

[Turko]

People laughing at my lateral way of thinking.

Please notice exhaust nozzle and lift fan.

 

[Turko]

As a partner good news. What do you think : loading ada-class corvettes with ESSM block -2 and VLS as they have Smart-s radar which works with ESSM.

Low-rate initial production begins for Raytheon ESSM Block 2 - Naval News

The U.S. Navy awarded Raytheon Company a $190 million low-rate initial production contract for ESSM Block 2 missiles featuring a new guidance system with a dual mode active and semi-active radar.

www.navalnews.com

Low-Rate Initial Production Begins For Raytheon ESSM Block 2​

The U.S. Navy awarded Raytheon Company a $190 million low-rate initial production contract for ESSM Block 2 missiles featuring a new guidance system with a dual mode active and semi-active radar.​

Unlike Block 1, Block 2’s active radar homing seeker will support terminal engagement without the launch ship’s target illumination radars. The improved ESSM Block 2 will be fielded by the US Navy from 2020.

 

[Anmdt]

As a partner good news. What do you think : loading ada-class corvettes with ESSM block -2 and VLS as they have Smart-s radar which works with ESSM.

Low-rate initial production begins for Raytheon ESSM Block 2 - Naval News

The U.S. Navy awarded Raytheon Company a $190 million low-rate initial production contract for ESSM Block 2 missiles featuring a new guidance system with a dual mode active and semi-active radar.

www.navalnews.com

Low-Rate Initial Production Begins For Raytheon ESSM Block 2​

The U.S. Navy awarded Raytheon Company a $190 million low-rate initial production contract for ESSM Block 2 missiles featuring a new guidance system with a dual mode active and semi-active radar.​

Unlike Block 1, Block 2’s active radar homing seeker will support terminal engagement without the launch ship’s target illumination radars. The improved ESSM Block 2 will be fielded by the US Navy from 2020.

Which is I-Class; Ada Class with VLS and ESSM, some people hinted I-Class will receive ESSM Block 2.
I expect an upgrade for Ada-Class with VLS at their MLU, but not sure how and where those will be installed.

 

[Turko]

Which is I-Class; Ada Class with VLS and ESSM, some people hinted I-Class will receive ESSM Block 2.
I expect an upgrade for Ada-Class with VLS at their MLU, but not sure how and where those will be installed.

İt's precious information. THX. Now need to photoshop it putting a VLS on ADA class.

 

[Anmdt]

İt's precious information. THX. Now need to photoshop it putting a VLS on ADA class.

There are possible places, try with 2 x 8 on each side (starboard-port) of RAS station, where located on sides of hangar, nearby to the stepping deck it gets wider to fit 8 cell, or 1 x 8 VLS of self defense length (4.5 m) behind main gun. If i were chosing, i would spare the spot behind the main gun for 1 x RAM launcher, replace RAM with Gökdeniz, install MAR-D as secondary X band search radar on the exhaust funnel, and install 1 more AKR on the secondary mast before the Gökdeniz.
So this way, there would be 2 search radar one S, one X band combined to 3 AKR (one above the bridge, one on the second mast, one on Gökdeniz), 2 x 8 VLS for ESSM, RAM and Gökdeniz as dual CIWS.
I know this is not practically possible but with a new design stretched to 105-107 meters, all those can fit.

 

[Turko]

There are possible places, try with 2 x 8 on each side (starboard-port) of RAS station, where located on sides of hangar, nearby to the stepping deck it gets wider to fit 8 cell, or 1 x 8 VLS of self defense length (4.5 m) behind main gun. If i were chosing, i would spare the spot behind the main gun for 1 x RAM launcher, replace RAM with Gökdeniz, install MAR-D as secondary X band search radar on the exhaust funnel, and install 1 more AKR on the secondary mast before the Gökdeniz.
So this way, there would be 2 search radar one S, one X band combined to 3 AKR (one above the bridge, one on the second mast, one on Gökdeniz), 2 x 8 VLS for ESSM, RAM and Gökdeniz as dual CIWS.
I know this is not practically possible but with a new design stretched to 105-107 meters, all those can fit.

You diligently created a great corvette. Guys y'all heard details. c'mon my photoshop is not good. Please someone draw the project.

Mk 48 VLS would be smart.

 

[Turko]

 

[Ecderha]

You diligently created a great corvette. Guys y'all heard details. c'mon my photoshop is not good. Please someone draw the project.
View attachment 7076
Mk 48 VLS would be smart.

There is lot of configurations
Please have a look this URL:

Mk-48 Vertical Launching System VLS RIM-7 RIM-162 Sea Sparrow

mk. 48 vertical launching system vls rim-7 sea sparrow sam missile rim-162 essm

www.seaforces.org

UkroTurk​

You have some good ideas, but regarding VLS we (Turkiye ) still developing his VLS system and missiles.​

I am sure when our VLS system and missiles are ready Turkiye can put them on existing ships in any configurations that Navy likes.

So you forgetting one specific thing and it is that Turkiye is on embargo form his Ally (I should say pseudo Allys ).
My point is that pseudo Ally will not let Turkiye get any VLS and in above configurations we need lot of VLS packs in different configurations. Nobody we give you that freedom (only way is you own product)

So we should wait our project (VLS and missiles) to become mature and then we can be eager to see what kind of configuration Turkiye navy can use to utilize ship space.

 

[Turko]

There is lot of configurations
Please have a look this URL:

Mk-48 Vertical Launching System VLS RIM-7 RIM-162 Sea Sparrow

mk. 48 vertical launching system vls rim-7 sea sparrow sam missile rim-162 essm

www.seaforces.org

UkroTurk​

You have some good ideas, but regarding VLS we (Turkiye ) still developing his VLS system and missiles.​

I am sure when our VLS system and missiles are ready Turkiye can put them on existing ships in any configurations that Navy likes.

So you forgetting one specific thing and it is that Turkiye is on embargo form his Ally (I should say pseudo Allys ).
My point is that pseudo Ally will not let Turkiye get any VLS and in above configurations we need lot of VLS packs in different configurations. Nobody we give you that freedom (only way is you own product)

So we should wait our project (VLS and missiles) to become mature and then we can be eager to see what kind of configuration Turkiye navy can use to utilize ship space.

But your ADA-CLASS corvettes are bound to west since they have SMART-S radar. Secondly we are partner of ESSM. So we could buy ESSM as much as we wish. There hasn't been any problem with ESSMs from western alliance.
Currently we are flirting with EU. O don't see any harm. Let our ADA class corvettes stronger.
I'm okay without Gökdeniz but with ESSM for ADA-CLASS until we have produced own systems.
Why not? Just 2 MK48 and 16 ESSM wont you wish a corvette hot like this.

 

[Reviewbrah]

You diligently created a great corvette. Guys y'all heard details. c'mon my photoshop is not good. Please someone draw the project.
View attachment 7076
Mk 48 VLS would be smart.

(PDF) Analysis and Suggestions on the Air Defence Capability of ADA Class Corvettes of Turkish Navy

PDF | Bu makalede MilGem Projesi kapsamında inşa edilen ve Donanmamızın göz bebeği olan ADA Sınıfı Korvetlerin hava savunma kabiliyetinin temelini... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Expensive but they could upgrade the 76 Oto Malera Super Rapid with Strales system and DART munition

MKE working on a 76mm Naval Gun, Aselsan-Tubitak SAGE could develop guidance system and 76mm guided ammo ammunition

Maybe 76mm airburst ammo similar to ATOM 35mm as a cheaper alternative for making 76mm naval gun more effective against air targets?

 

[Ecderha]

But your ADA-CLASS corvettes are bound to west since they have SMART-S radar. Secondly we are partner of ESSM. So we could buy ESSM as much as we wish. There hasn't been any problem with ESSMs from western alliance.
Currently we are flirting with EU. O don't see any harm. Let our ADA class corvettes stronger.
I'm okay without Gökdeniz but with ESSM for ADA-CLASS until we have produced own systems.
Why not? Just 2 MK48 and 16 ESSM wont you wish a corvette hot like this.

I am sorry to say that but you answer is not real (it is like a dream, you need to look what is the situation with our pseudo Allys it is not good)

1 - But your ADA-CLASS corvettes are bound to west since they have SMART-S radar. Noooo ships were modified with Turkish hardware and software (ships is not only SMART-S it is more systems)

2- Secondly we are partner of ESSM. So we could buy ESSM as much as we wish. There hasn't been any problem with ESSMs from western alliance. We ARE partner with F-35 and what happend ? we did NOT get the fighters but they got the money (you get it know)

3.Currently we are flirting with EU. O don't see any harm. - No we are NOT " We say that - > we followed the ageemants with EU and keep it , but EU did't keep they side . They keep twisting and finding other ways in order to not completed their part ". Nevertheless we saying that we still following the same path

4.Why not? Just 2 MK48 and 16 ESSM wont you wish a corvette hot like this. -> IT is not about 1,2,3 ... packs
It is about configurations, different concepts . You need to check is it each configurations suit you ships etc.
Again please be real in real world which is atmoment we have pseudo Allys which will NOT give a thing to Turkiye

 

[Turko]

I am sorry to say that but you answer is not real (it is like a dream, you need to look what is the situation with our pseudo Allys it is not good)

1 - But your ADA-CLASS corvettes are bound to west since they have SMART-S radar. Noooo ships were modified with Turkish hardware and software (ships is not only SMART-S it is more systems)

2- Secondly we are partner of ESSM. So we could buy ESSM as much as we wish. There hasn't been any problem with ESSMs from western alliance. We ARE partner with F-35 and what happend ? we did NOT get the fighters but they got the money (you get it know)

3.Currently we are flirting with EU. O don't see any harm. - No we are NOT " We say that - > we followed the ageemants with EU and keep it , but EU did't keep they side . They keep twisting and finding other ways in order to not completed their part ". Nevertheless we saying that we still following the same path

4.Why not? Just 2 MK48 and 16 ESSM wont you wish a corvette hot like this. -> IT is not about 1,2,3 ... packs
It is about configurations, different concepts . You need to check is it each configurations suit you ships etc.
Again please be real in real world which is atmoment we have pseudo Allys which will NOT give a thing to Turkiye

Ada-class have RENK engine so are we loosers?
Western alliance still supplies Turkish Army except F35. Because F35 isnot as old fashioned as ESSM..

 

[Turko]

(PDF) Analysis and Suggestions on the Air Defence Capability of ADA Class Corvettes of Turkish Navy

PDF | Bu makalede MilGem Projesi kapsamında inşa edilen ve Donanmamızın göz bebeği olan ADA Sınıfı Korvetlerin hava savunma kabiliyetinin temelini... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Expensive but they could upgrade the 76 Oto Malera Super Rapid with Strales system and DART munition

MKE working on a 76mm Naval Gun, Aselsan-Tubitak SAGE could develop guidance system and 76mm guided ammo ammunition

Maybe 76mm airburst ammo similar to ATOM 35mm as a cheaper alternative for making 76mm naval gun more effective against air targets?

I just realised what @anmdt had said
However i offer maximum upgrade with less money as the ship has Smart-s that well-matched with ESSM. Our navy air defense is bound to ESSMs.
Without any reconstruction just adding two mk 48 VLS and using ESSM envantery wouldnt be a big problem.

 

[Reviewbrah]

I am sorry to say that but you answer is not real (it is like a dream, you need to look what is the situation with our pseudo Allys it is not good)

1 - But your ADA-CLASS corvettes are bound to west since they have SMART-S radar. Noooo ships were modified with Turkish hardware and software (ships is not only SMART-S it is more systems)

2- Secondly we are partner of ESSM. So we could buy ESSM as much as we wish. There hasn't been any problem with ESSMs from western alliance. We ARE partner with F-35 and what happend ? we did NOT get the fighters but they got the money (you get it know)

3.Currently we are flirting with EU. O don't see any harm. - No we are NOT " We say that - > we followed the ageemants with EU and keep it , but EU did't keep they side . They keep twisting and finding other ways in order to not completed their part ". Nevertheless we saying that we still following the same path

4.Why not? Just 2 MK48 and 16 ESSM wont you wish a corvette hot like this. -> IT is not about 1,2,3 ... packs
It is about configurations, different concepts . You need to check is it each configurations suit you ships etc.
Again please be real in real world which is atmoment we have pseudo Allys which will NOT give a thing to Turkiye

SMART-S Mk2 is build under license from Thales. Aselsan developed and manufactures T/R modules parts for the radar and its exported under Thales. SMART-S is integrated with Havelsan GENESIS Combat Management System. One of the downside is information security of SMART-S's capabilities as the design belongs to a another country. National 3D search radar is on development

We manufacture parts for RIM-162 Block 1, "Consortium member" is more of a sale tactic. U.S. could stop the sales to us anytime as they wish.

 

[Nilgiri]

c'mon my photoshop is not good.

Dunno what you are talking about, I appreciate it much

 

[adenl]

Just cut the damn thing in two and add a module with the VLS to it

 

[Turko]

MK48 launching ESSM...

Skip to 4:00

Skip to 5:31

Dutch variant just along one side