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Ryder

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These are efforts by intelligence agencies to dilute religious values. In this way, they know better that they can drive the people as they want. They call it "secularization". But this is no different from cursing religious beliefs.

Secularisation of religion has begun ever since the French revolution.

Because religion does not belong in the modern world either they make their own religion or try to make religion fit in the modern world. Give an example like the Cult of Reason or how materialism became the new religion to follow.

Hence why Islam and the Modern World clashes just like Christianity vs the Modern World in the past.

I have to say this Muslims are fighting a losing battle because technology and progress easily wipes out anything associated with the past.

Religion and nationalism is dying out in the chopping board of progress. Because they are seen as old fashion.

Not to say im a full blown luddite. I mean modern technology makes life easier.

Just how life is you cant fight it unless civilisation itself collapses.

We aint going to be here for long just another phase going in this world. Just how life is.
 

CAN_TR

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If speaking Arabic and learning it makes us Arab that means im a Germanic Anglo Saxon because I can speak English.
No that's because you live in Australia, translating the Kuran to Turkish is necessary not everyone who wants to read it has to learn Arabic, don't come up with such ridiculous comparisons.

Alevis are different than Shia, only similarity is the "twelve Imam" story but overall they are early Anatolian Turcoman Interpretation of Islam with Shia, Sunni and Sufi influence. Kurdish Alevis were influenced by the Turcoman Alevis.
 

Xenon54

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No that's because you live in Australia, translating the Kuran to Turkish is necessary not everyone who wants to read it has to learn Arabic, don't come up with such ridiculous comparisons.

Alevis are different than Shia, only similarity is the "twelve Imam" story but overall they are early Anatolian Turcoman Interpretation of Islam with Shia, Sunni and Sufi influence. Kurdish Alevis were influenced by the Turcoman Alevis.
Alevis are almost a complete different religion, they have shia tendencies but are very different.
 

Ryder

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No that's because you live in Australia, translating the Kuran to Turkish is necessary not everyone who wants to read it has to learn Arabic, don't come up with such ridiculous comparisons.

Alevis are different than Shia, only similarity is the "twelve Imam" story but overall they are early Anatolian Turcoman Interpretation of Islam with Shia, Sunni and Sufi influence. Kurdish Alevis were influenced by the Turcoman Alevis.

Does not change the fact that Alevism span off from Shia Islam and not Sunni Islam.

Of course im not going to call them Shias but their sect was span off from Shia just like the Alawites and the Druze. The difference here is that the Alevis and Alawites became their own sects while the Druze became their own religion.

Who said you are forced to learn Arabic? There is nothing wrong in learning it. I mean there is 300 million Arabic speakers.

Arabic, English, French, Spanish and Portuguese have millions of speakers hence why many are learning these languages due to opportunities that come with it

Im not saying Turkish is useless. No language is useless but being bilingual helps.

I tried to learn Arabic once even Italian but I was lazy to do it 🤣

I think Turkish and English is good enough 😁
 

Tornadoss

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FETO was also "dıj güjler". But you ignore that they are still "dıj güjler". Turkish translation and Turkish readings bring with them comments that are not in the Qur'an.
It says in the Qur'an today that alcohol drinking is a sin. If you try to falsify it, someone might write in the Qur'an tomorrow that alcohol drinking is a useful thing. Or it can create nonsense such as "interfaith dialogue" by creating customs that have no place in Islam. All this made FETO. And we all see the result. So be careful what you wish for.
This is funny. When all these years we are saying feto is bad. You blindly defend them. Please be careful your examples. Translating Quran to Turkish wouldn't cause Feto. We are Turkish our language is not Arabic. Of course we need a translation. If it's translated by proper channels and by control there won't be any problem. The problem is not the translation but who prevent them. Even though you keep things in Arabic, as long as you follow meczups such as feto, cubbeli ahmet etc be part of a cemaat, tarikat such as Menzil you would be always be fooled. Today the government still allow these groups and support them. And there is no words from you for that. So I am not sure you are sincere about this topic.
 

Ryder

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This is funny. When all these years we are saying feto is bad. You blindly defend them. Please be careful your examples. Translating Quran to Turkish wouldn't cause Feto. We are Turkish our language is not Arabic. Of course we need a translation. If it's translated by proper channels and by control there won't be any problem. The problem is not the translation but who prevent them. Even though you keep things in Arabic, as long as you follow meczups such as feto, cubbeli ahmet etc be part of a cemaat, tarikat such as Menzil you would be always be fooled. Today the government still allow these groups and support them. And there is no words from you for that. So I am not sure you are sincere about this topic.

If you looked into Islamic Turkic history alot of religious books were translated into Turkic languages.

When it came to bilingualism many Turkic rulers spoke different languages. Even soldiers learnt to be bilingual. I mean Ataturk even learnt Arabic, Persian and Ottoman Turkish. I think Arabic was from his religious upbringing while he learnt German as an officer.

Of course the average Turkish citizen of the time is not going to bother with bilingualism.

The problem is Arabic and Turkish are different languages hence why the translations can become different this is normal.
 

Tornadoss

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If you looked into Islamic Turkic history alot of religious books were translated into Turkic languages.

When it came to bilingualism many Turkic rulers spoke different languages. Even soldiers learnt to be bilingual. I mean Ataturk even learnt Arabic, Persian and Ottoman Turkish. I think Arabic was from his religious upbringing while he learnt German as an officer.

Of course the average Turkish citizen of the time is not going to bother with bilingualism.

The problem is Arabic and Turkish are different languages hence why the translations can become different this is normal.
Do everyone speaking Arabic interpret the Quran all the same? Does knowing arabic make you fully understand it? AFAIK though you know arabic you can interpret it differently. But this not the point. I am against the sentences like using language is the work of Foreign intelligence agencies.
 

Tornadoss

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The image used in video always reminds me this

1be0a2f8a16b01b6406a601e696ab1a3.jpg
 

Cypro

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Everyone is free to believe what they want and perform their religious traditions how they want to do it. Judging people by how they perform praying to God is primitive and uncivilized. Small minds in Turkey disgrace Alevis, try to exclude from Islam for centuries. They think their arabic influenced sect is the only true way and everyone has to obey.. That is religious racism that divides Turkey.

If you believe God / Allah, it does not matter whether you are christian sunni or alevi, isn't it the same God? They keep everything arabic to prevent people to understand it so they keep the ignorants under control. In Quran it states even Allah cannot intervene freewill of an individual, then who the fuck are you to tell people how they are going to believe or pray. Alevis has suffered much despite they are peaceful, It is so strange that people who understand religion in their language are more happy and peaceful while the ones only hear from imam easily deceived and full of anger against everyone else. But because of religious oppression in Turkey, Alevis are turning into deists and atheists eventually Alevis will be excluded from Islam because of this oppression..

Turkey needs at least 100 more years to learn to respect differences..
 
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Sinan

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Public transport sights from Istanbul
"Everything will be very good"
Yes, it is obvious how beautiful everything is.
We owe a lot to the Ekrem for making Istanbul live this ridiculous view.
BS propaganda from the government troll.

- Buses in Istanbul have to operate with half of the passenger capacity with the order of ministry of interior.
- Meanwhile, President Erdogan not signing the request of Istanbul Municipality to buy hunderds of new buses for over 6 months.

And government trolls accusing Ekrem Major.

Most of the people know these cheap tricks and it won't help Erdogan regime to win the next election.
 
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Sinan

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Bro, be careful when quoting bold media.

They have half truth in their videos, and distort the reality sometimes. They are all Gülenists. In all their videos they refer to FETÖ as "Gülen Cemaati"....sly foxes they used to say "Hizmet Hareketi" at the past.
 

Bogeyman 

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BS propaganda from the government troll.

- Buses in Istanbul have to operate with half of the passenger capacity with the order of ministry of interior.
- Meanwhile, President Erdogan not signing the request of Istanbul Municipality to buy hunderds of new buses for over 6 months.

And government trolls accusing Ekrem Major.

Most of the people know these cheap tricks and it won't help Erdogan regime to win the next election.
The government doesn't pay for imported buses. Mansur Yavaş did the same thing in Ankara. But their account had returned from Ankara. I don't think Ekrem is up to something different.

Look, this is a video from last year. The same applies here. Even the driver says they're rebelling


EVWII7pXYAAQyHc


Confirmed: bus services were increased by a provincial health board decision last year. You seem to like lying.
 
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Sinan

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The government doesn't pay for imported buses. Mansur Yavaş did the same thing in Ankara. But their account had returned from Ankara. I don't think Ekrem is up to something different.

Look, this is a video from last year. The same applies here. Even the driver says they're rebelling


EVWII7pXYAAQyHc


Confirmed: bus services were increased by a provincial health board decision last year. You seem to like lying.
Spew some random shit as an AKP propagandist does. My message is up there. Try to dispute them instead of typing random shit.
 

Ardabas34

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Because the Quran was revealed in Arabic and stayed like that. Yes there are translations to various languages.

Arabic has always been the core of Islam just like how Latin is the core of Catholicism, Greek for Orthodox Christians while Hebrew for the Jews. Many might use their own native languages but does not change that certain languages have always been a core to the religion.

Classical Language of Arabic is really different to todays arabic which has different dialects and prounciations.

Hence why the Quran sounds so different to a modern average arabic speaker. In fact Classical Arabic is really superior to modern day Arabic.

If your religion has a ''core language'' and if it doesnt take it nice even when people use their own language instead of Arabic for the ''call for prayer'' then you should stop claiming your religion is a universal one.

We criticise western people for seeing all the muslims as Arabs but we on the other hand give them every excuse to do so.

If you name your children with Arabic names, if you defend a high volume call for prayer that is 5 times a day to be made in Arabic, if you dont take it nice for people to call god with the word in your language ''tanrı'' but only ''allah'', if you think you can only communicate with god in Arabic then you simply dont get offended when people tell you Islam is the religion of Arabs.

A universal religion wouldnt interfere with the names of a nation, a universal religion wouldnt advise to talk to god in one language, a universal religion wouldnt force you go to a place in Arab peninsula.

I am an atheist and from what I see in history and even today, Islam basically acts as the Arab cultural imperialism and it gives Arabs an unnecessary source of boasting.
A mumin is basically an Arabified person.

Latin isnt the core of Christianity. Latin was the intellectual language of the European continent due to Roman Empire. Jesus wasnt a Latin, he was born to a Jewish community. Roman Empire ignored Christianity completely in its first 200 years. Then they resisted to it because Christianity was intolerant to other religions. Then they adopted it because it grew too strong. Then they became champions of it and spreaded it.

But the theocratic class in Europe in middle ages insisted on Latin bible because that way people couldnt understand the bible themselves so they had to rely on the theocratic class. So they could exploit this for their own agendas. Which is the exact same reason tariqah leaders in Turkey or pretty much any religion abuser like Akp politicians dislike the idea of Turkish people themselves reading and understanding the Quran.

Ataturk because of this, ordered the translation of Quran. He wanted his people to know what they were believing in and to stop these blood drinking vampires to exploit peoples ignorance anymore.

There is a pretty f*ing stupid excuse these people give when it comes to Turkish Quran: you cant translate it with the exact %100 meaning from Arabic.

First and foremost, this is an insult to Turkish language. Our people founded empires after empires when Arabs were living in tents in the middle of desert. Why would our language fail at translating sth in Arabic? If anything, Turkish was in contact with Chinese, Persian, Sogdian, Greek and many other languages and Arabic itself for centuries. So if there was even sth missing we would have borrowed it. We already know Ottomans had no trouble with that!

Second, this way people dont understand even a thing. So you say you are worried that they will not understand the %100 meaning behind it but your solution makes them understand %0 of it. They literally understand nothing!

Here, they bring on the bomb: ''because of this, you should stop trying to understand it yourself and rely on your tariqah leader'' and ladies and gentlemen thats how fetös born.

Allegedly, they are the ones with ''ilim'' to understand and ''interpret'' what god tries to say to people.

Dont forget, the very same people also claim Quran is brought to us in the most open language so we can all easily understand it!

FETO was also "dıj güjler". But you ignore that they are still "dıj güjler". Turkish translation and Turkish readings bring with them comments that are not in the Qur'an.
It says in the Qur'an today that alcohol drinking is a sin. If you try to falsify it, someone might write in the Qur'an tomorrow that alcohol drinking is a useful thing. Or it can create nonsense such as "interfaith dialogue" by creating customs that have no place in Islam. All this made FETO. And we all see the result. So be careful what you wish for.

On the contrary, for the reason I typed above, you prevent FETO by translating Quran yourself. Tariqahs say, you shouldnt try to understand Quran yourself and you shouldnt read its translation because they are wrong and you arent capable of understanding without us. You should rely on us, we will tell you what to do because we have the ''ilim'' to interpret it right. Then they go on and exploit your ignorance. Ataturk ordered the translation of Quran in order to prevent these bloodsucker vampires. This was to prevent evil people exploiting peoples ignorance.

What Islam is, is open in Quran. All the surahs are clear and open and they dont lose meaning or sth, thats pure bullshit. If you are curious about what Islam is, then read its Turkish yourself and trust in your own brain, not any tariqahs.
 
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Oublious

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LoL we are 100 years further still talking about it, ther is difference between recite and reading. If you want to understand you can read translations, i am repeating translations. Which one is the Quran?

Quran can never be translated so it will be always in Arabic. Linguist side is that is neither a poem or normal text. Thats the miracle side, Quran challenged the best poet and all of them could not give answer. Thats why the protection is by Allah and not humans who would falsify. A single word can have 20 meaning.

A translation will be always a interpretation of the translater.
 

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LoL..Go translate Istiklal Marsi in English and read it...

12 years ago when i started the journey to learn classic Arabic, i realise after 2 years that ther is no thing like understanding the Quran can be achieve by learning language. So i stop, it is not easy to learn a language with that level. Even reading classic Kalaam or Philosophy books are writing in certain level Arabic. So the best thing is go read translations, you will understand simple text but that it is.

Today standards will be different after 20 years, things today will be worse then before. So muslims should go accept that?

Lol wher is your culturel heritage?

Strong countries will pose ther culture as standard, today West tommorow looking the east. So your standard will be east after 10 years?

So ther is left a question for you, wher is your called Turkish culture? Turning Arabic Quran in Turkish?

Turning Turkish in some kind western liberal culture standard is your end.

Don't call me coward, looks like you are a coward with some complex with todays standards. If you want to talk with me stop with insulting other whise ther is no reason to talk with you.

1-
Fear not! The red banner that ripples in this dawn, shall not fade,
Before the last hearth that is ablaze within my homeland is extinguished.
It is the star of my people, which shall shine;
It is mine; it only belongs to my people.

Frown not, I beseech thou, oh thou coy crescent!
Smile upon my heroic nation once!
What is this violence, what is this rage for?
Our blood which we shed for you shall not be worthy afterwards...
Freedom is the right of my God-worshipping people.


I can go on with the remaining 8 verses if you want.

2- I think your journey on learning classic Arabic was like your journey on learning English. Because I hardly can understand what you are saying.

3- ''Today standards will be different after 20 years, things today will be worse then before. So muslims should go accept that?''

Muslims will accept that. Then they will go on and reinterpret Islam and Qurans verses again to make it fit to their new lifestyle. For example if we will have go cannibal due to lack of food, some verse will be reinterpretted and they will say ''look it says islam is the religion of easyness so we are actually allowed to do this.''

In Ottoman Empire there was this term: hile-i şerriye. If sth had to be done, sth was needed but was against sharia, they would do it. For example interest is sin in islam. So there were these vakıfs: Para vakfı. They would literally do what a bank would do. History has again and again proved that if sth is economically or practically feasible neither morals nor culture nor religion stops humans. They do it.

Suleiman had promised he would never execute Ibrahim. Then he decided he wanted to execute him but he remembered his promise and ''tasked'' sheikh-ul islam to find a way that enabled him to execute Ibrahim without breaking his promise.

Sheikh-ul Islam goes through the entire Quran couple of times whole night, finally comes up with a completely made up, totally bullshit interpretion like if you sleep while your executioners kill him you will not be responsible for the act.

We all know this is bullshit. You give that order while you are awake, how is it not breaking your promise?

4- ''Lol wher is your culturel heritage?

Strong countries will pose ther culture as standard, today West tommorow looking the east. So your standard will be east after 10 years?''

My ''culturel'' heritage isnt Arab culture. I am Turkish.
That ''east'' didnt start surpassing west by following its confucianist doctrines. They modernised their entire country after ''the century of humiliation'' and adopted the education system and everything of the west. Even as of today thousands of Chinese students go to US universities to come back to their country with the knowledge they acquired from there. They came to today after copying and mimicking everything in the west.

China will not defend its seas with Kung fu, China will not produce its fighter jets with Confucianist doctrines. China isnt driven by Buddhist theological ideology.

5- ''Don't call me coward, looks like you are a coward with some complex with todays standards. If you want to talk with me stop with insulting other whise ther is no reason to talk with you.''

Yes, I have complex over hearing some Arabic shouting in my country five times in every day and I know for a fact that no Arab would ever accept hearing Turkish 5 times a day in their country neither. They see us as their enemies while we are being cuckolds for their language and culture.

I never insulted you. I spewed some facts, if you got offended by them, it was the facts that offended you not me.
 

Kartal1

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@Ardabas34 @Oublious Stay out of personal attacks and insults. Warnings are given and messages deleted.

@Ardabas34 You can give your opinion of whatever you want and can believe whatever you want but to insult in such a way the Muslims in the month of Ramadan is crossing a red line for me. If you continue in that way harsher measures will be implemented.
 

Ryder

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If your religion has a ''core language'' and if it doesnt take it nice even when people use their own language instead of Arabic for the ''call for prayer'' then you should stop claiming your religion is a universal one.

We criticise western people for seeing all the muslims as Arabs but we on the other hand give them every excuse to do so.

If you name your children with Arabic names, if you defend a high volume call for prayer that is 5 times a day to be made in Arabic, if you dont take it nice for people to call god with the word in your language ''tanrı'' but only ''allah'', if you think you can only communicate with god in Arabic then you simply dont get offended when people tell you Islam is the religion of Arabs.

A universal religion wouldnt interfere with the names of a nation, a universal religion wouldnt advise to talk to god in one language, a universal religion wouldnt force you go to a place in Arab peninsula.

I am an atheist and from what I see in history and even today, Islam basically acts as the Arab cultural imperialism and it gives Arabs an unnecessary source of boasting.
A mumin is basically an Arabified person.

Latin isnt the core of Christianity. Latin was the intellectual language of the European continent due to Roman Empire. Jesus wasnt a Latin, he was born to a Jewish community. Roman Empire ignored Christianity completely in its first 200 years. Then they resisted to it because Christianity was intolerant to other religions. Then they adopted it because it grew too strong. Then they became champions of it and spreaded it.

But the theocratic class in Europe in middle ages insisted on Latin bible because that way people couldnt understand the bible themselves so they had to rely on the theocratic class. So they could exploit this for their own agendas. Which is the exact same reason tariqah leaders in Turkey or pretty much any religion abuser like Akp politicians dislike the idea of Turkish people themselves reading and understanding the Quran.

Ataturk because of this, ordered the translation of Quran. He wanted his people to know what they were believing in and to stop these blood drinking vampires to exploit peoples ignorance anymore.

There is a pretty f*ing stupid excuse these people give when it comes to Turkish Quran: you cant translate it with the exact %100 meaning from Arabic.

First and foremost, this is an insult to Turkish language. Our people founded empires after empires when Arabs were living in tents in the middle of desert. Why would our language fail at translating sth in Arabic? If anything, Turkish was in contact with Chinese, Persian, Sogdian, Greek and many other languages and Arabic itself for centuries. So if there was even sth missing we would have borrowed it. We already know Ottomans had no trouble with that!

Second, this way people dont understand even a thing. So you say you are worried that they will not understand the %100 meaning behind it but your solution makes them understand %0 of it. They literally understand nothing!

Here, they bring on the bomb: ''because of this, you should stop trying to understand it yourself and rely on your tariqah leader'' and ladies and gentlemen thats how fetös born.

Allegedly, they are the ones with ''ilim'' to understand and ''interpret'' what god tries to say to people.

Dont forget, the very same people also claim Quran is brought to us in the most open language so we can all easily understand it!



On the contrary, for the reason I typed above, you prevent FETO by translating Quran yourself. Tariqahs say, you shouldnt try to understand Quran yourself and you shouldnt read its translation because they are wrong and you arent capable of understanding without us. You should rely on us, we will tell you what to do because we have the ''ilim'' to interpret it right. Then they go on and exploit your ignorance. Ataturk ordered the translation of Quran in order to prevent these bloodsucker vampires. This was to prevent evil people exploiting peoples ignorance.

What Islam is, is open in Quran. All the surahs are clear and open and they dont lose meaning or sth, thats pure bullshit. If you are curious about what Islam is, then read its Turkish yourself and trust in your own brain, not any tariqahs.

Westerners use Semitic-Hebrew names like David, John, Sarah, Aaron, Joseph.

When Turks took up Islam they took up arabic or persian names they still used Turkic names like Alperen, Sebuktigin, Baybars, Alparslan, Cagri, Tugurl, Alptekin, Orhan, Ataman various others.

Actually I lived in Australia not one person called me an arab. This whole discourse of Non Arab Muslims being seen as arab was part of the whole orientalism discourse.

Westerners even painted Turks as dark skin africans.

It all stems from ignorance or bias because the Eastern Steppes and the Middle East were seen as the forces of darkness.
 

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