TR Propulsion Systems

[Sinan]

View attachment 12957



View attachment 12958

Source

In missiles?

 

[Hexciter]

I think it is the time for TEI to consider to add a supercharger to present TD222 setup. She has sequential twin turbo added as far as I know.
The turbos are cheap and easy to install hence more popular. They speeds up exhaust removal. But they have lag problem (ie. Works in high rpm) Their gain mainly on power, but torque.
Superchargers on the other hand works in opposite side and compresses intake. They are avaible with start. Gain is torque side mainly. But more expensive and complex. So they are not preferred in automotive industry.
Aero-diesel is a different animal. Benefits of adding supercharger can have the following benefits;
1. Immediately available extra power (mainly torque) can increase MTOW and climbing rate. ( I still think that 225 hp power per engine not enough for Akıncı)
2. Current engine setup loses power in high altitude due to thin air. Hence a supercharger enters here. She’ll compress the air to bring back it to its sea-level density where the engine designed to work.
I think it’s worth considering (if not present already).

Supercharger Applications

 

[Zafer]

TRMOTOR posted 22 job positions from R&D and design to manufacturing.
Let's hope for the best.

 

[Stuka]

Look what i have found.

An Interview with Osman Dur, CEO of TR Motor.
I believe it went under the radar for some reason. It is from 21st January 2021.

He talks about himself in the begining. He seems to be quite experienced.
His Education:

>Additionally his wife is a Doctor and 2 out 4 of his children studied at Yale University to be Doctors and returned to Turkey.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Around 59 minutes:

> He said that HE is the one that created BMC MOTOR and responsible for the development of the Engines in the Company

>" 1. We made a 380HP Engine and Finished it. We integrated the Engine in a Vehicle and its Working...Done"

>" 2. We made a 600HP Engine (AZRA) for tank carrier vehicle. We integrated the Engine and its Working... Done"

>" 3. We made a 1000HP Engine (UTKU). This Engine was ignited 3 months earlier. Its currently in testing... Done"

>" 4. The 1500HP Engines (BATU) Design is finished and the parts have been ordered and around April the Engine will be Ignited"


The interesting part is what he said about BMC Engine and Transmissions.

"Altay da şanzıman yapılıyor, Motor şanzıman beraber gidiyor. Şuan 1500 bg takı rahatlıkla taşıyor.
Ancak BMC de tankı ekstra hafifletme çalışmaları yapıyor.
Nisan gibi motor hazır, istenirse harpte herşey mübahtır, motorları testleri beklemeden tanklara takarız. Biliyorsunuz askeri araçlarda test zorunlu değildir. Bitti bitti bir sorun yok"

Translation:
Transmission and Engine for Altay are being developed simultaneously. The Transmission carries the 1500HP without a problem but BMC is trying to make the tank a lighter.
Around April the Engine is ready and we could immediately integrate the Engine in Altay without testing it on the Tank because desperate Times require desperate measures.
He added that they (BMC) are looking to buy available Power packs to fill the Gap until BATU Engine is ready from April there will be testing but the Engine is already being tested extensively in Testing Centers.

​

 

[adenl]

Thank you very much @Stuka for giving a summary and translation of this hidden gem of valuable information! Just 2 months till first ignition of the BATU engine!. I'm looking forward to it!

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Look what i have found.

An Interview with Osman Dur, CEO of TR Motor.
I believe it went under the radar for some reason. It is from 21st January 2021.

He talks about himself in the begining. He seems to be quite experienced.
His Education:
View attachment 13491

>Additionally his wife is a Doctor and 2 out 4 of his children studied at Yale University to be Doctors and returned to Turkey.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Around 59 minutes:

> He said that HE is the one that created BMC MOTOR and responsible for the development of the Engines in the Company

>" 1. We made a 380HP Engine and Finished it. We integrated the Engine in a Vehicle and its Working...Done"

>" 2. We made a 600HP Engine (AZRA) for tank carrier vehicle. We integrated the Engine and its Working... Done"

>" 3. We made a 1000HP Engine (UTKU). This Engine was ignited 3 months earlier. Its currently in testing... Done"

>" 4. The 1500HP Engines (BATU) Design is finished and the parts have been ordered and around April the Engine will be Ignited"


The interesting part is what he said about BMC Engine and Transmissions.

"Altay da şanzıman yapılıyor, Motor şanzıman beraber gidiyor. Şuan 1500 bg takı rahatlıkla taşıyor.
Ancak BMC de tankı ekstra hafifletme çalışmaları yapıyor.
Nisan gibi motor hazır, istenirse harpte herşey mübahtır, motorları testleri beklemeden tanklara takarız. Biliyorsunuz askeri araçlarda test zorunlu değildir. Bitti bitti bir sorun yok"

Translation:
Transmission and Engine for Altay are being developed simultaneously. The Transmission carries the 1500HP without a problem but BMC is trying to make the tank a lighter.
Around April the Engine is ready and we could immediately integrate the Engine in Altay without testing it on the Tank because desperate Times require desperate measures.
He added that they (BMC) are looking to buy available Power packs to fill the Gap until BATU Engine is ready from April there will be testing but the Engine is already being tested extensively in Testing Centers.

​

Thanks for translation. Great news. BATU 1500hp will be ignited in April 2021.

 

[Oublious]

Interesting, in the begin he wanted to start a project. No more theory but really design a engine, but what kind answer they gived to him. Like back in the days, ther was no really ambition in Turkish people. I am talking about everyone, ther was no trust in our self. Inferiority complex was a thing among us, 24 year later ther is a light . If ther was maybe 10 people at least like him, ther would be project started back in the days.

 

[Combat-Master]

Interesting, in the begin he wanted to start a project. No more theory but really design a engine, but what kind answer they gived to him. Like back in the days, ther was no really ambition in Turkish people. I am talking about everyone, ther was no trust in our self. Inferiority complex was a thing among us, 24 year later ther is a light . If ther was maybe 10 people at least like him, ther would be project started back in the days.

I don't know about you, but this complex we had is disappearing so fast! it's excellent!

 

[Oublious]

I don't know about you, but this complex we had is disappearing so fast! it's excellent!

More i listen more he gives me excitements....

 

[adenl]

More i listen more he gives me excitements....

If there is more interesting stuff in this interview, feel free to summarize it here

 

[Yasar_TR]

I think it is the time for TEI to consider to add a supercharger to present TD222 setup. She has sequential twin turbo added as far as I know.
The turbos are cheap and easy to install hence more popular. They speeds up exhaust removal. But they have lag problem (ie. Works in high rpm) Their gain mainly on power, but torque.
Superchargers on the other hand works in opposite side and compresses intake. They are avaible with start. Gain is torque side mainly. But more expensive and complex. So they are not preferred in automotive industry.
Aero-diesel is a different animal. Benefits of adding supercharger can have the following benefits;
1. Immediately available extra power (mainly torque) can increase MTOW and climbing rate. ( I still think that 225 hp power per engine not enough for Akıncı)
2. Current engine setup loses power in high altitude due to thin air. Hence a supercharger enters here. She’ll compress the air to bring back it to its sea-level density where the engine designed to work.
I think it’s worth considering (if not present already).

Supercharger Applications

Supercharger by design and theory is a much better way to compress air in to the combustion chamber. Because of it’s superior values “on paper” Mercedes used it on their compressor engines.
superchargers have been used many times on engines. But somehow never been as efficient as turbos. Mercedes too had to change almost all it’s engines to turbo chargers now.
Turbo lag has now been minimised. You do not even feel it any more on the modern engines.
I am an engineer. I agree with you that supercharger should perform better. But in real life it does not. Also we all know that cold air contains more oxygen and supercharger can compress colder air better in to combustion chamber. Yet turbo charger uses hot exhaust gasses to rotate the turbo (it does NOT remove exhaust gasses. Exhaust gasses are used to rotate the turbo) which would heat up the air being compressed. But this has been overcome by intercoolers.
Especially for diesels, common rail high pressure fuel injection and turbo with intercoolers have been the way forward.
By the way; Adding a supercharger to a turbocharged engine to mitigate the weaknesses of both turbocharger and supercharger, will create a more powerful engine. But this will involve rebuilding the engine from scratch. In it’s current form I am not sure this can be done to any of the PD class engines. Also this would be a very different albeit expensive engine!

 

[Zafer]

Interesting, in the begin he wanted to start a project. No more theory but really design a engine, but what kind answer they gived to him. Like back in the days, ther was no really ambition in Turkish people. I am talking about everyone, ther was no trust in our self. Inferiority complex was a thing among us, 24 year later ther is a light . If ther was maybe 10 people at least like him, ther would be project started back in the days.

Back in the day the chief driver was not in the driver's seat.
No matter how hard you tried nothing would come out of it.

 

[Hexciter]

Supercharger by design and theory is a much better way to compress air in to the combustion chamber. Because of it’s superior values “on paper” Mercedes used it on their compressor engines.
superchargers have been used many times on engines. But somehow never been as efficient as turbos. Mercedes too had to change almost all it’s engines to turbo chargers now.
Turbo lag has now been minimised. You do not even feel it any more on the modern engines.
I am an engineer. I agree with you that supercharger should perform better. But in real life it does not. Also we all know that cold air contains more oxygen and supercharger can compress colder air better in to combustion chamber. Yet turbo charger uses hot exhaust gasses to rotate the turbo (it does NOT remove exhaust gasses. Exhaust gasses are used to rotate the turbo) which would heat up the air being compressed. But this has been overcome by intercoolers.
Especially for diesels, common rail high pressure fuel injection and turbo with intercoolers have been the way forward.
By the way; Adding a supercharger to a turbocharged engine to mitigate the weaknesses of both turbocharger and supercharger, will create a more powerful engine. But this will involve rebuilding the engine from scratch. In it’s current form I am not sure this can be done to any of the PD class engines. Also this would be a very different albeit expensive engine!

Price is not a top priority for an aero-engine. Performance and reliability are. Main logic here is to compress thin air of the high altitude which causes power drop in the current form. So, it had not to be in the current known form of a supercharger. P.S. I’m not an engineer.

 

[Gary]

Random questions, does Turkey have any roadmap for high bypass turbofan engine in its catalogue? Something like a PW4000 or GE90?

 

[Zafer]

Random questions, does Turkey have any roadmap for high bypass turbofan engine in its catalogue? Something like a PW4000 or GE90?

NO

It is a very low priority capability.
There are many high priority capability acquisition necessities already so it will have to wait another decade to find a place in the agenda. Unless an unexpected opportunity arises to co-develop one with a foreign partner for a readily developed market.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Random questions, does Turkey have any roadmap for high bypass turbofan engine in its catalogue? Something like a PW4000 or GE90?

YES to the first part No to the second part.
The engine that TR Motor is working on at the moment has many similarities with the F110GE132 engine which is a high bypass turbofan engine. This engine is going to be powering theTFX . Projected to be ready around 2027-29.

 

[Gary]

YES to the first part No to the second part.
The engine that TR Motor is working on at the moment has many similarities with the F110GE132 engine which is a high bypass turbofan engine. This engine is going to be powering theTFX . Projected to be ready around 2027-29.
View attachment 13515

Cmiiw, but assembling F110 is different than manufacturing an F110 right? Does Turkey only assemble F110 or make ot from ground up?

 

[Zafer]

A high bypass turbofan is generally speaking a turbofan used in passenger planes for subsonic speeds.

 

[Nilgiri]

high bypass turbofan engine

Its low-bypass.....bypass ratio will be somewhere in 0.7 - 0.8 range if its like F110.

Mid bypass starts around 2.....and high bypass around 4 generally.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Cmiiw, but assembling F110 is different than manufacturing an F110 right? Does Turkey only assemble F110 or make ot from ground up?

According to the MD of TEI, with respect to f110 engine, they are fully capable of making the whole engine “from ground up” as you put it at this moment in time. They can produce more than 50% of the critical parts including the high temperature parts like single Crystal blades In house. The rest they have to import as they are not critical. But they can not do it without GE‘s permission.
But the engine TR Motor is working on, is different enough not to attract IP rights issues. This will take time as it has to be manufactured with different specs.