TR Propulsion Systems

[Nilgiri]

Cmiiw, but assembling F110 is different than manufacturing an F110 right? Does Turkey only assemble F110 or make ot from ground up?

It is made under license. Depending on what the TEI facility has, some will be ground up, other bits will be provided by GE.

Here is longer post on the turk capability here:

F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

fastest fingers in the west Hahahaha :D Our difference :)

defencehub.live

 

[Yasar_TR]

Its low-bypass.....bypass ratio will be somewhere in 0.7 - 0.8 range if its like F110.

Mid bypass starts around 2.....and high bypass around 4 generally.

F110GE129 is low by pass. But F110 GE132 is stated as a high bypass turbofan engine in GE catalogue. This engine was manufactured for the use of Unifed Arab Emirates F16V60 planes. it gives a thrust of 32000lbf against the 129 version which is a 29000lbf engine. TEI actually maintains these 132 class engines in Turkey as well.

GE Aircraft Engines Completes Qualification Testing on F110-GE-132 | GE Aerospace News

www.geaviation.com

 

[Nilgiri]

F110GE129 is low by pass. But F110 GE132 is stated as a high bypass turbofan engine in GE catalogue. This engine was manufactured for the use of Unifed Arab Emirates F16V60 planes. it gives a thrust of 32000lbf against the 129 version which is a 29000lbf engine. TEI actually maintains these 132 class engines in Turkey as well.

Maybe higher bypass ratio than before, but it wont be "high-bypass" for a supersonic role. It will definitely be under a ratio of 1.

For supersonic, you need as much of the exit velocity of the jet to be that supersonic speed too. Thats a direct high level need for fighter aircraft etc....unlike commercial a/c where efficiency is much more valued (and thus you "gear" more low speed air with significantly more bypass).

i.e High bypass is something you work backwards to add efficiency around the core.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Maybe higher bypass ratio than before, but it wont be "high-bypass" for a supersonic role. It will definitely be under a ratio of 1.

For supersonic, you need as much of the exit velocity of the jet to be that supersonic speed too. Thats a direct high level need for fighter aircraft etc....unlike commercial a/c where efficiency is much more valued (and thus you "gear" more low speed air with significantly more bypass).

i.e High bypass is something you work backwards to add efficiency around the core.

It was clearly stated as 0.7-0.8 high bypass ratio . This is a totally different engine specially developed by GE with LM involved for United Arab Emirates’ 80 x f16V60 planes.

GE Aircraft Engines Completes Qualification Testing on F110-GE-132 | GE Aerospace News

www.geaviation.com

http://www.mce-asic.co.uk/engines/docs/military/datasheet-F110-GE-132.pdf

 

[Nilgiri]

0.7-0.8 high bypass ratio

Can I get the catalogue file you are referring to? Or screen cap of it?

0.7 - 0.8 is well within low bypass ratio.

It is done this way because it has to be supersonic capable.

There is no way you can make a high bypass engine go supersonic....as the 50/50 mark (at ratio of 1) goes in favour of subsonic air drastically at the exit with higher and higher bypass ratio after it....so at ratio of say 4...that is 4 times the air exiting at subsonic compared to the supersonic (of the core).

 

[Yasar_TR]

Can I get the catalogue file you are referring to? Or screen cap of it?

0.7 - 0.8 is well within low bypass ratio.

It is done this way because it has to be supersonic capable.

There is no way you can make a high bypass engine go supersonic....as the 50/50 mark (at ratio of 1) goes in favour of subsonic air drastically at the exit with higher and higher bypass ratio after it....so at ratio of say 4...that is 4 times the air exiting at subsonic compared to the supersonic (of the core).

http://www.mce-asic.co.uk/engines/docs/military/datasheet-F110-GE-132.pdf

The F110 Engine | Engines | Military | GE Aviation

Discover the F110 Military Engine Family from GE Aviation. GE Aviation is committed to military aircraft propulsion through our military jet engine solutions.

www.mce-asic.co.uk

 

[Nilgiri]

http://www.mce-asic.co.uk/engines/docs/military/datasheet-F110-GE-132.pdf

The F110 Engine | Engines | Military | GE Aviation

Discover the F110 Military Engine Family from GE Aviation. GE Aviation is committed to military aircraft propulsion through our military jet engine solutions.

www.mce-asic.co.uk

I don't see high-bypass mentioned anywhere.

Anyway if you saw it someplace, its probably some different convention being followed in the definition. Its not big deal.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I don't see high-bypass mentioned anywhere.

Anyway if you saw it someplace, its probably some different convention being followed in the definition. Its not big deal.

There is no particular ratio at which the engine becomes a 'high' bypass, though the it is generally taken to be around 4:1 and above are now classified as high bypass.
0.68:1 bypass ratio is definitely not high bypass if you take above as the norm. Compared with other jet engines like f414 with a ratio of 0.25:1 , ej200 with a ratio of 0.4:1 , f119 with a ratio of 0.3:1; f110ge132 has a “higher” bypass ratio. I may have mis read it. But it has definitely stayed in my memory that this engine was high (may be higher) bypass model as that is what I had read in GE’s site.
So it could be my bad!

 

[Bogeyman]

What are the Gas Turbine Design Challenges? How Do Turbine Engines Work?
The publication is unfortunately in Turkish. Meanwhile, Sinan Şal works at TEI as chief engineer.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1357731335457157121

Available as transcribed. Friends who want to translate from Turkish to English, please come forward.

 

[uzaysan]

What are the Gas Turbine Design Challenges? How Do Turbine Engines Work?
The publication is unfortunately in Turkish. Meanwhile, Sinan Şal works at TEI as chief engineer.

Sinan Şal is awesome. Unlike some other "Üstads" he dont have any narsizm and doesnt look people from the above. And he answered all my questions. He treats people gently.

 

[Combat-Master]

What are the Gas Turbine Design Challenges? How Do Turbine Engines Work?
The publication is unfortunately in Turkish. Meanwhile, Sinan Şal works at TEI as chief engineer.

These sort of media should be constantly made!

Sinan Şal is awesome. Unlike some other "Üstads" he dont have any narsizm and doesnt look people from the above. And he answered all my questions. He treats people gently.

He is a true gentlemen

 

[Stuka]

Look what i have found v2

Another Interview with Osman Dur fairly recent at that. it is from yesterday (04.02.2021)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is very apparent that he has quite the passion and the ambition in what he does.

In the beginning he talks about his achievements again because the interviewer asks him and that leads to BMC Power
around the 32 Minute mark.

> He says that Otokar worked with the Koreans to create the Tank and that Tümosan was tasked to develop the Power pack
with a foreign Company until they stopped it and Tümosan canceled it.
He approached SSM at that Time and told them that could do it nd convinced the Representatives at SSM that no foreign Company
should be included because Current Engineers can do it on their own and thus the Engine Development started.

> Transmission needs more experience so the Transmission Team has foreign engineers.

> Similiar to what he has done at TÜRKSAT he went and looked around the Globe for people with Experience in Engine Development and the Project started.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> This is where it gets interesting. He says completely nonchalant that during negotiations for the 1500HP Power pack tender with SSM He tasked the young Teams work on a small Engine Project and they aimed for a 600HP tank carrier Engine. 2.5 Years Later the 600HP first Ignition of the Engine in Sakarya, He says that the President was there aswell and that it was 2 Years ago (10.2018)

> After that Engine they started the 380HP Engine for Kirpi and Vuran. There was a tender and they won it.

> Followed by the 1000HP Firtina Engine.

Current Status:

> 380 HP Ignited working and being integrated on the Vehicle
> 600 HP Ignited (10.2018), working Tests almost finished being integrated in the tank carrier vehicle
> 1000HP ignited (11.2020) 3 Months ago, Tests continue
> 1500HP will be shown in around 3 months


"The Turkish Republic has earned the capability to Design internal combustion engines and there are no more obstacles in her future."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He Gave the Position at the BMC Power to his Vice President after working 1 Year ah BMC Power and TR Motor AND He added something important.

TEI produced Turboshaft Engine TS1400 as feasibility test for bigger Turbojet Engines and in the Future The projects at TEI and TRMOTOR will be Consolidated! Turkey will Continue with TRMOTOR as sole producer of Turbojet Engines!

 

[Agha Sher]

Look what i have found v2

Another Interview with Osman Dur fairly recent at that. it is from yesterday (04.02.2021)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is very apparent that he has quite the passion and the ambition in what he does.

In the beginning he talks about his achievements again because the interviewer asks him and that leads to BMC Power
around the 32 Minute mark.

> He says that Otokar worked with the Koreans to create the Tank and that Tümosan was tasked to develop the Power pack
with a foreign Company until they stopped it and Tümosan canceled it.
He approached SSM at that Time and told them that could do it nd convinced the Representatives at SSM that no foreign Company
should be included because Current Engineers can do it on their own and thus the Engine Development started.

> Transmission needs more experience so the Transmission Team has foreign engineers.

> Similiar to what he has done at TÜRKSAT he went and looked around the Globe for people with Experience in Engine Development and the Project started.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> This is where it gets interesting. He says completely nonchalant that during negotiations for the 1500HP Power pack tender with SSM He tasked the young Teams work on a small Engine Project and they aimed for a 600HP tank carrier Engine. 2.5 Years Later the 600HP first Ignition of the Engine in Sakarya, He says that the President was there aswell and that it was 2 Years ago (10.2018)

> After that Engine they started the 380HP Engine for Kirpi and Vuran. There was a tender and they won it.

> Followed by the 1000HP Firtina Engine.

Current Status:

> 380 HP Ignited working and being integrated on the Vehicle
> 600 HP Ignited (10.2018), working Tests almost finished being integrated in the tank carrier vehicle
> 1000HP ignited (11.2020) 3 Months ago, Tests continue
> 1500HP will be shown in around 3 months


"The Turkish Republic has earned the capability to Design internal combustion engines and there are no more obstacles in her future."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He Gave the Position at the BMC Power to his Vice President after working 1 Year ah BMC Power and TR Motor AND He added something important.

TEI produced Turboshaft Engine TS1400 as feasibility test for bigger Turbojet Engines and in the Future The projects at TEI and TRMOTOR will be Consolidated! Turkey will Continue with TRMOTOR as sole producer of Turbojet Engines!


View attachment 13541

The rate of KNOWN progress is staggering. I can't even imagine what kind of secret capabilities the Turks have managed to develop without telling us.

The Turkic nation seems unstoppable. Thank God, that the Turkic nation became Muslim. Otherwise, we would have been in a terrible condition for the past thousand years.

 

[adenl]

In 10 years time, the mere mentioning of the name 'Osman Dur' will sent shivers over the spines at MTU...If it still exists by then

 

[Stuka]

Look what i have found v2

Another Interview with Osman Dur fairly recent at that. it is from yesterday (04.02.2021)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is very apparent that he has quite the passion and the ambition in what he does.

In the beginning he talks about his achievements again because the interviewer asks him and that leads to BMC Power
around the 32 Minute mark.

> He says that Otokar worked with the Koreans to create the Tank and that Tümosan was tasked to develop the Power pack
with a foreign Company until they stopped it and Tümosan canceled it.
He approached SSM at that Time and told them that could do it nd convinced the Representatives at SSM that no foreign Company
should be included because Current Engineers can do it on their own and thus the Engine Development started.

> Transmission needs more experience so the Transmission Team has foreign engineers.

> Similiar to what he has done at TÜRKSAT he went and looked around the Globe for people with Experience in Engine Development and the Project started.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> This is where it gets interesting. He says completely nonchalant that during negotiations for the 1500HP Power pack tender with SSM He tasked the young Teams work on a small Engine Project and they aimed for a 600HP tank carrier Engine. 2.5 Years Later the 600HP first Ignition of the Engine in Sakarya, He says that the President was there aswell and that it was 2 Years ago (10.2018)

> After that Engine they started the 380HP Engine for Kirpi and Vuran. There was a tender and they won it.

> Followed by the 1000HP Firtina Engine.

Current Status:

> 380 HP Ignited working and being integrated on the Vehicle
> 600 HP Ignited (10.2018), working Tests almost finished being integrated in the tank carrier vehicle
> 1000HP ignited (11.2020) 3 Months ago, Tests continue
> 1500HP will be shown in around 3 months


"The Turkish Republic has earned the capability to Design internal combustion engines and there are no more obstacles in her future."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He Gave the Position at the BMC Power to his Vice President after working 1 Year ah BMC Power and TR Motor AND He added something important.

TEI produced Turboshaft Engine TS1400 as feasibility test for bigger Turbojet Engines and in the Future The projects at TEI and TRMOTOR will be Consolidated! Turkey will Continue with TRMOTOR as sole producer of Turbojet Engines!


View attachment 13541

Osman Dur's Dad was an Orphan at 2 Years of Age and he did not finish Elementary School and ended up being a Shepherd and now his son is trying to Compete with MTU and General Electric. Truly Inspiring.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> He says that many Turks in Foreign nations are looking to return to Turkey but they need more Infrastructure especially at Universities. They need specifically Research Centers like in Konya Gıda ve Tarım Üniversitesi.

>Universities aren't on par with Foreign ones and He adds that he accepts Students from less notorious Universities like Kayseri but he tells the Students if you learn English in 6 months you are in, or else you will be leaving us.

>He says Istanbul is overcrowded and they need to distribute the knowledge to Anatolia like they did with food in Konya Uni. and its research Lab. He says Erzurum Uni should specialize at Medicine and add adequate Labs for instance.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Important: He wants to or rather plans to Ignite the TF-X Engine (Turbojet) in the year 2027!

 

[uzaysan]

>He says Istanbul is overcrowded and they need to distribute the knowledge to Anatolia like they did with food in Konya Uni. and its research Lab. He says Erzurum Uni should specialize at Medicine and add adequate Labs for instance.

Konya also starting to specialize in engineering. Recently they seperated Selçuk University Engineering Faculty and founded a new University called Konya Teknik Universitesi. And also Aselsan opened a arm manufacturing factory in konya. And New University and Aselsan are close.

 

[Oublious]

Konya was always somekind industry revolution of Turkey. That seems to project now. They should stop investing in big cities and give other side of the country.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

---

 

[the]

Is it right to say that 1,500 hp is base/average engine output for 3rd and 4th generation battle tanks?

 

[Huelague]

The rate of KNOWN progress is staggering. I can't even imagine what kind of secret capabilities the Turks have managed to develop without telling us.

The Turkic nation seems unstoppable. Thank God, that the Turkic nation became Muslim. Otherwise, we would have been in a terrible condition for the past thousand years.

We ARE in a terrible condition. Just look around. We can not save the whole Muslim world. We need help.