TR Propulsion Systems

[Nilgiri]

As you guys have pointed out this is why I consider Hürjet trainer to be of utmost importance over KAAN atm. Because our so called allies would probably not mind selling us 90 engines for trainer jets.

So if we later on, after building them all, should have the need to convert them to LCA (light combat aircraft) and we can do that with minimal work, then we can still fly and wipe our arses, even if just barely.

But like I said earlier, making the LCA, and then asking for senate permission to buy trainer jet engine is going to be much more difficult.

Yes 3-4 years ago I mention that kind of thing many times, here's one instance:

It is why I personally follow Hurjet project lot closer. The timelines are sooner, more things matured/maturing quicker for it.... and it will illustrate the ecosystem maturity to take forward with TFX.

i.e we will see good proof one way or another (of everything you mention having to come together) in timeframe some are getting into (somewhat unnecessary tone) debate about.

There is no need to overly-praise or overly-diminish a solid project that is in the flow of things right now (that we cannot judge in some close-up microsystem way).

Results simply can be monitored and followed and compared with the debate preceding it....there should be no rush to produce judgement in this juncture from relatively casual observers + enthusiasts.

As you can sense and find all the issues lot quicker with smaller aircraft (both internally and with outside suppliers) that still ticks the important boxes (jet propulsion, avionics, LCA weapons capability)..... a more nimble project that can pump out a quicker production run ASAP too.

Any issues surfacing there gives early detection of same issues with TFX later and it buys you some time to think and develop solutions for that, rather than get shortchanged and stuck later.

 

[Strong AI]

Strategic Cooperation from TRMOTOR and TASECS

We signed a strategic cooperation agreement with TASECS to develop the ATS (Air Turbine Starter) Control Valve, one of the critical products of our defense industry, with domestic engineering and national resources.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1863917941504278657

 

[Sanchez]

New (larger?) engine project by Kale, named Biga. Signed with SSB this year.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1867173360721104938

 

[Strong AI]

New (larger?) engine project by Kale, named Biga. Signed with SSB this year.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1867173360721104938

And it looks like it will be Turbojet, because in the last sentence it states "ARATJET, BIGAJET".

 

[Sanchez]

And it looks like it will be Turbojet, because in the last sentence it states "ARATJET, BIGAJET".

Turbofans are jets too

 

[Strong AI]

Turbofans are jets too

My thought was that ARAT is a Turbojet and they use ARATJET, so BiGAJET will be Turbojet too. But yeah you could be right too.

 

[Anmdt]

Turbofans are jets too

I am certain that Gezgin won't have a single version/block, Turbofan version will exist for Navy and BiGA should be the turbofan.

B i G A, what this could be ? Can't relate to anything but a small province in Marmara region. Should be something within the initials Bi and G + A. Or simply "Big Arat?"

 

[TheInsider]

Production plan/projection of Kale Jet engines.
Blue: Guided munitions(KGK kit, no engine)
White: Stand-off missiles (engine)
Beige: Anti-ship missiles (engine)

A production rate of over 9000 engines per year will be reached by 2032.
Kale plans to produce over 1000 engines(probably close to 1500) in 2025. (stand-off+anti-ship)
Note that Kale alone produced over 2000 KGK kits in 2023. Now we have other companies that produce guidance kits too. We have a huge production capacity.

Kale is developing Aratjet, Bigajet, and a variant of KTJ-1750 for drones. The KTJ-3200 variant for SOM is named KTJ-3200S, and the Atmaca variant is named KTJ-3200A there are also other variants for different projects.

You can read from page 65 unfortunately it is in Turkish.

https://kalejetengines.com/uploads/a071fb54-4b5b-42fd-ae5e-d3bbeafb376b.pdf

 

[TheInsider]

 

[TR_123456]

Can you explain what a 'continuous wave engine' is?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Can you explain what a 'continuous wave engine' is?

https://www.eucass.eu/component/docindexer/?task=download&id=2692

Essentially it is a CRDE. Continuously Rotating Detonation engine. As the fuel is injected in to the combustion chamber in a continuous manner, the detonations are formed in a wave motion creating a CDWRE .

Propulsion Systems

There is still a long way to go with this engine. We have only managed to run it for 10seconds. It needs to operate flawlessly before we can say we have “developed“ it. Nevertheless, what Tubitak has achieved is exemplary. Great step towards developing this engine. As conventional air breathing...

defencehub.live

 

[Strong AI]

Can you explain what a 'continuous wave engine' is?

As I tried to explain above, the development of gas turbine engine technology is reaching it’s limits. Gas turbine engines can only operate in atmosphere. They are not very fuel efficient. At high altitudes you need turbojets, at lower altitudes you need turbofans.
A CRDE (Continuously Rotating Detonation Engine) can work in and outside of atmosphere. It is much more fuel efficient. On top of it it has potential to achieve immense amounts of thrust.
It can be used to propel space rockets or passenger planes. Or it can be used to power large ships in place of gas turbines.
Currently there are no operational engines using this technology. But the potential is great. We have joined the elite group of developers of this technology thanks to Tubitak.

Actually the beauty of this technology is that you are doing away with a lot of moving parts that a turbine engine consist of. In a CRDE what you have is an annular detonating chamber and fuel inlets. Normally There are no compressors no turbine blades that need to be made out of single crystals in a CRDE. But when there are turbines and compressors in a turbine engine that are working with a CRDE, the CRDE makes them operate more efficiently without the need for high temperatures normally needed with these engines.
A CRDE can also be incorporated in to a Tubojet Engine to render it more capable. The rotating detonation waves can also be applied in turbojet engines. Rotating detonation turbojet engine can produce a large effective thrust at low pressure ratio. This will reduce the number of compressors in conventional turbine engines and then reduce the demanding requirements of the turbine manufacturing process. The resulting combustion chamber is smaller, simpler, and of higher thrust/weight ratio. Due to the characteristic of detonation waves, the performance of such engines will be increased greatly as well.
If you check the cylindrical annular chamber in below diagram you will see that the detonation waves for different fuels give different detonation wave structures.
View attachment 44579

In order to have continuous detonation wave there are certain limitations and rules with respect to detonation chamber size and height. For example, the radial size of the chamber should not be smaller than one detonation-cell size.

View attachment 44580

This technology, theoretically, would revolutionise the ramjet engines as well.
Here is the simple set up the Chinese scientists have carried out their tests with:
View attachment 44581

Here is a cross sectional very slow motion picture taken by the French lab that carried out the tests which shows individual detonations in the combustion chamber;
View attachment 44582

Experimental CRDE set up in USA:

View attachment 44583