TR Propulsion Systems

[Strong AI]

Turkish Technic and Rolls-Royce are setting up an engine maintenance center at Istanbul Airport. The facility will do the maintenance of Trent XWB-97, Trent XWB-84, and Trent 7000 engines starting from 2027.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1920054479870693428

 

[Bilge adam reis]

TF6000 is not even made yet we have been trying to get TS1400 into production for years but somehow we are going make bigger TF6000 and It will be better than the US or European engines

 

[mehmed beg]

TF6000 is not even made yet we have been trying to get TS1400 into production for years but somehow we are going make bigger TF6000 and It will be better than the US or European engines

Triggered much?

 

[Sanchez]

TF6000 is not even made yet we have been trying to get TS1400 into production for years but somehow we are going make bigger TF6000 and It will be better than the US or European engines

We are not "trying" to put TS1400 into production. If anything, production and testing schedule is going pretty nicely.

 

[Zafer]

TF6000 is not even made yet we have been trying to get TS1400 into production for years but somehow we are going make bigger TF6000 and It will be better than the US or European engines

You are missing the TF35000 engine which is supposed to be the pinnacle of Turkish engineering, only two years or so to first ignition.

 

[Yasar_TR]

TF6000 is not even made yet we have been trying to get TS1400 into production for years but somehow we are going make bigger TF6000 and It will be better than the US or European engines

You are missing the TF35000 engine which is supposed to be the pinnacle of Turkish engineering, only two years or so to first ignition.

You are both missing important points.

@Bilge adam reis ,
1. TF6000 has already been fired. It has been tested over 100 times. It has been pulled apart and reassembled and fired again.
2. An engine like TF6000, at it’s first firing, would probably give a thrust of 55-65% of aimed final thrust. But having done the tests and corrected the engine, Prof Aksit said they have attained a thrust level of more than the aimed figure.
3. So your claim of TF6000 not being “made” is not correct. It is almost there to be used. But needs maturing a bit more. Same goes for the TS1400. Infact this engine is ready to use if it can be certified.
4. No one from TEI is claiming that the 35000lbf thrust engine would be better than a US or European engine. What is said is that this engine is going to be one of the most technologically advanced engines in the world.
5. If you questioned the timeline involved in KAAN’s engine, that would be a valid argument. When we haven’t even got a fully working turbofan in hand, to expect such an advanced engine to be in working condition so soon. That needs some doing.

@Zafer ,
Point 5 applies to you too.
According to the information released, the engine for KAAN is ready in digital domain. But it needs to be physically built as a prototype. From what Prof Aksit was saying, they are at the prototype building stage now.
That means within a year we should have the first firing if no predicaments are encountered ; like the West blocking sale of some simple pump.
But then it needs a lot of time to mature.

If our memory serves, we should remember that Prof Aksit was quite verbal about being able to manufacture an engine like F119 which is off the sale list of US built engines.
So that is the engine performance levels we are aiming for. To achieve that with the addition of more modern technologies incorporated, will be a real feat of achievement for TEI.

Also let us not forget that Prof Aksit had pointed out that we need a good 10+ years and more like 13-14 years to have an engine like F119.
Unfortunately we have no other option but to produce this engine like yesterday. Even if it means it is underpowered or underperforming to start with. But it has to be built.

 

[Zafer]

You are both missing important points.

@Bilge adam reis ,
1. TF6000 has already been fired. It has been tested over 100 times. It has been pulled apart and reassembled and fired again.
2. An engine like TF6000, at it’s first firing, would probably give a thrust of 55-65% of aimed final thrust. But having done the tests and corrected the engine, Prof Aksit said they have attained a thrust level of more than the aimed figure.
3. So your claim of TF6000 not being “made” is not correct. It is almost there to be used. But needs maturing a bit more. Same goes for the TS1400. Infact this engine is ready to use if it can be certified.
4. No one from TEI is claiming that the 35000lbf thrust engine would be better than a US or European engine. What is said is that this engine is going to be one of the most technologically advanced engines in the world.
5. If you questioned the timeline involved in KAAN’s engine, that would be a valid argument. When we haven’t even got a fully working turbofan in hand, to expect such an advanced engine to be in working condition so soon. That needs some doing.

@Zafer ,
Point 5 applies to you too.
According to the information released, the engine for KAAN is ready in digital domain. But it needs to be physically built as a prototype. From what Prof Aksit was saying, they are at the prototype building stage now.
That means within a year we should have the first firing if no predicaments are encountered ; like the West blocking sale of some simple pump.
But then it needs a lot of time to mature.

If our memory serves, we should remember that Prof Aksit was quite verbal about being able to manufacture an engine like F119 which is off the sale list of US built engines.
So that is the engine performance levels we are aiming for. To achieve that with the addition of more modern technologies incorporated, will be a real feat of achievement for TEI.

Also let us not forget that Prof Aksit had pointed out that we need a good 10+ years and more like 13-14 years to have an engine like F119.
Unfortunately we have no other option but to produce this engine like yesterday. Even if it means it is underpowered or underperforming to start with. But it has to be built.

Mr. Akşit said some detail design work and some detail calculations are still ongoing. However the parts that design works have been completed for should be in the process of manufacturing already. How long the manufacturing will take is guesswork at best. My guess is we can hear some roaring in 18 months.

 

[mTT]

Mr. Akşit said some detail design work and some detail calculations are still ongoing. However the parts that design works have been completed for should be in the process of manufacturing already. How long the manufacturing will take is guesswork at best. My guess is we can hear some roaring in 18 months.

the magic number

Spoiler: 18

When I see a date 18 months in the future, I always think of ALTAY.

 

[TheInsider]

TF35000 first fire is likely in Q4 2026. We will see the real deal in IDEF 2027. I think they will show one of the several prototypes there.

 

[dBSPL]

For our aviation industry to gain global competitiveness and for strategic competence in domestic needs, the mid-weight turbofan for combatants was one of the critical issues, even though it was not voiced much. Also, this development program will probably be a naturally navalized turbofan from birth. Because I think it would be consistent to say that the first area of use will be the navalized Hürjet and Kızılelma program.

In the general plan, the domestic aviation industry will reach indigenous engine alternatives in the light, medium and heavy classes almost simultaneously, similar to China's recent combat aircraft engine development strategy. This parallel progress will also positively affect the main platform development/forking processes in the future.

 

[starcrescent]

TF35000 first fire is likely in Q4 2026. We will see the real deal in IDEF 2027. I think they will show one of the several prototypes there.

I think we will see a plastic mockup of it in IDEF 2025.

 

[Merzifonlu]

ike the West blocking sale of some simple pump.

IMO, we have already passed that point in terms of domestic industrial infrastructure. I think we have become capable of not only designing a turbofan engine from scratch, but also producing it with domestic means down to the simplest bolt. We will no longer be stuck with a simple pump.

If that were not the case, neither would TEI have reached the end of the TF-6000/10000 project, nor would Baykar be talking about developing a turbofan engine in the 20000 lbf class.

 

[Yasar_TR]

IMO, we have already passed that point in terms of domestic industrial infrastructure. I think we have become capable of not only designing a turbofan engine from scratch, but also producing it with domestic means down to the simplest bolt. We will no longer be stuck with a simple pump.

If that were not the case, neither would TEI have reached the end of the TF-6000/10000 project, nor would Baykar be talking about developing a turbofan engine in the 20000 lbf class.

I like your optimism. But only recently the TF6000 was delayed more than 6-7 months because of a sale of a simple part being blocked by our so called allies, and had to be made locally. (Dr Aksit‘s words)
There are still many parts that depend on foreign input. Many local companies that produce the “indigenous“ parts like landing gears, starter engines still use outside sourcing for small parts. Many parts that you obtain without any problem in normal times may become blocked once they find that it is for KAAN. We have had too many examples of this in the past.

TS1400 is 30-40kg heavier than planned, because they couldn’t get the right parts.
It is very difficult to produce everything in house.

 

[Shtr]

TF10000's first ignition will be probably in 1-2 years according to Mr. Akşit. It roughly makes around 3-4 years to mature and put into production. I was always optimist about timeline but it seems it was just a dream.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Although optimism is not a particularly bad thing alongside with having faith in our engineers and defence industry in general, given some of the achievements we have scored in record times in many fields of said industry, @Yasar_TR üstad, being the voice of calculated reason every time I read his contributions, gives a realistic and balanced assessment of the situation.
Optimism is not bad but we have to be realistic and know our shortcomings. Our defence industry has time and time again proven that it can overcome hurdles and curve balls thrown at it, but let's not forget that we have many more challenges to conquer.

 

[Zafer]

Although optimism is not a particularly bad thing alongside with having faith in our engineers and defence industry in general, given some of the achievements we have scored in record times in many fields of said industry, @Yasar_TR üstad, being the voice of calculated reason every time I read his contributions, gives a realistic and balanced assessment of the situation.
Optimism is not bad but we have to be realistic and know our shortcomings. Our defence industry has times and times again proven that it can overcome hurdles and curve balls thrown at it, but let's not forget that we have many more challenges to conquer.

We wouldn't be able to do shit without the Brits, if we believed some comments made at the time, there is no denial.
Türkiye have overachived skeptics' predictions time and time again.

 

[Merzifonlu]

TS1400 is 30-40kg heavier than planned, because they couldn’t get the right parts.

What is the source of this information? As far as I know, the TS-1400 engine will be 20-30 kg heavier than the competitor engine, not 30-40 kg.

 

[TR_123456]

What is the source of this information? As far as I know, the TS-1400 engine will be 20-30 kg heavier than the competitor engine, not 30-40 kg.

So why is it heavier then?
Why should it be heavier?

 

[Merzifonlu]

So why is it heavier then?
Why should it be heavier?

The TEI TS-1400 engine is 20-30 kg heavier than the LHTEC CTS800 engine that was used as a basis when the project started. Because Western countries did not sell us the top notch super alloys that they used. We used super alloys that were lower quality but sold as "off the shelf" products. And to compensate for this situation, they designed the engine 160 HP more powerful than originally requested.

This is how Prof. Akşit explained it in the video I gave the link to.

 

[Saithan]

Does 20-40 kg increased weight mean that much ?

TS1400 will be used on Gökbey right, so what kind of limitations will it bring ?

considering it's our "first engine" does that mean anything as long as we produce 200-300 Gökbey ? and gain the knowhow to do better.