TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Radonsider]

Yes but they can't

What about f22 j20 and su57 aren't they air dominance fighter's?

Yes but they can't carry CMs. And should we consider Su-57 as 5th gen?

 

[I_Love_F16]

I think that a Gökdoğan mini would be better than Gökdoğan ER or Gökhan to carry more BVR missiles

I disagree. In contrary, you need an Air to Air missile with good enough range. The vast majority of encounter will happen in BVR, and the pilot will need to take the least risk possible for him and his plane, not to engage in dogfights.

I’m sure the TF-X will be capable to take at least 4 Gökdogan missiles, which is not bad but 8 would be great.

 

[Radonsider]

I disagree. In contrary, you need an Air to Air missile with good enough range. The vast majority of encounter will happen in BVR, and the pilot will need to take the least risk possible for him and his plane, not to engage in dogfights.

I’m sure the TF-X will be capable to take at least 4 Gökdogan missiles, which is not bad but 8 would be great.

iirc Peregrine was able to deliver same range as AIM-120C with nearly half the size.

And yes, for now it can carry 4 BVR and 2 WVR, we need to develop the bay to accommodate squeezed BVR missiles (like F-22)

 

[Oublious]

Most of the subsystems of tfx is seems more or less on per with f35. However, I am quite skeptical about the the aselsan's 'FLIR' or 'missile warning system' being as capable as f35s EOTS and DASS. ( the fact that, tfx need an separate IRST on the nose with some compromise in stealth means that, aselsan doesn't have the techology right now to combine FLIR and IRST in one architecture like lockheed martin's EOTS) also I am not quite sure, if the TFX's central computer and ew suite will be as capable as f35's ones! Does any of turkish freinds here has more comparative data on these issues? Because, if these gap exist TFX will be at considerable disadvantages compared to greek f35.

Tubitak SAGE is responsible for the 360 degree sensor package, including IRSTL. The name of the project was if i am not wrong NAR. Ther is not much information for now, maybe after 2025.

 

[Radonsider]

Tubitak SAGE is responsible for the 360 degree sensor package, including IRSTL. The name of the project was if i am not wrong NAR. Ther is not much information for now, maybe after 2025.

Can you share some more info?

 

[Oublious]

Can you share some more info?

Ther is not much information, you can watch the video of Ismail Demir. He talks very short about it. NAR projesi was it, a team within TUBITAK was responsible.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Oh and another thing to add is iirc ASELSAN does IRST experience before (naval platforms) with being a little bit bigger than what you see on aircraft

Piri and Şahingözü are naval IRST systems

 

[Radonsider]

Piri and Şahingözü are naval IRST systems

Another thing to note is the info they have given for BEOS looks pretty similar to PIRI irst, I think that we can get a similar product, both for IRST and BEOS

 

[Radonsider]

Of course, BEOS will have better quality than aselpod! ( I mean aselpod is 3rd Gen targeting pod with no hd MWR or SWR. ) however, how do you know that BEOS was tested in Anatolian eagle? I mean it not a targeting pod that can be fitied with f16 of f4, it is an integrated EOTS in tfx main air frame! And also aselsan doesn't have the aselflir 500/600 yet, which is supposed to be all around hd like wescam mx15/25. ( so it is not seems very realistic that, BEOS already in testing ) And 'f35's dass is not just bunch of thermals!' it is the world most sophisticated IR sensor operating in ultra violate wavelength, Devoloped by Northrop as one and only in its class. And aselsan doesn't have any experience in that area or in IRST. As the tfx's IRST will be the aselsan's first IRST product. Last but not the least, if you were important enough to know the classified specs, you wouldn't be here on that forum with bunch of amateurs like us ( no offense )

Oh btw, I didn't say BEOS was tested, they just shared some info (very little) about it in Anatolian Eagle 2021 press conference

 

[Cabatli_TR]

About IVDL Aselsan is developing for frequency hopping, jamming resistant in-fleet data transfer and communication link (F35 has MADL system as equivalent)

@Aselsan magazine

 

[Radonsider]

About IVDL Aselsan is developing for frequency hopping, jamming resistant in-fleet data transfer and communication link (F35 has MADL system as equivalent)

View attachment 47105 View attachment 47106

is this KEMENT?

 

[Cabatli_TR]

is this KEMENT?

No, This system is being developed in order for aircrafts performing in-arm flights or going for an operation to behave like a loyal gang members among themselves by share their situational awareness datas with each other and thus act as a whole in the face of enemy aircrafts.

 

[Radonsider]

Side looking aesa is not good enough for 360 situational awareness. Unlit any system similer to dass installed on tfx ( which is supposed to be developed by tubitak ) you can't claim tfx has better situational awareness

Ok let it not be 360 but for frontal and side you still get better awareness because radars are more consistent than IRs

 

[Cabatli_TR]

I didn't know TF-X had a radar between the 2 nozzles, could it be an EW module like how Su-57 utilises that part

If I remember correctly, Mr. KOTIL mentioned it as radar, not EW sensor.

 

[Radonsider]

Not
contrary to your description aselsan is very new in IR spectrum compared to companies like BAE SYSTEM, NORTHROP, LOCKHEED MARTIN THALES, RAFAEL, HENDSOLDT. Until Very recently aselsan used to import the phocal detectors from germany and israel to develop IR seekers. So producing ultra violate IR sensor like that one are on f35 is very hard thing to do for company like aselsan or tubitak ( but nevertheless we pray hopefully that they will be able to do it eventually )

Not really, ASELSAN is in IR (thermal sights) for like around 30-35 years now.

And as we have posted the names before, they have already developed a very good IRST. But yeah, DAS(FSS) will be a challenge as it would need heavy fusion and integration, nothing against that.

Also for UV

"Sensör Birimi içerisindeki kritik elemanlar olan; foto-dedektör ve 6 farklı optik filtre Almanya’dan temin edilmekte, diğer tüm alt takımlar yerli olarak üretilmektedir. 2017 yılında Almanya hükümeti tarafından başlatılan ambargo sebebiyle, bu kritik komponentler temin edilememiş, FİS üretimi durdurulmuştur.



Kasım 2020’de optik filtrelerin millileştirmesi tamamlanmış ve 2021 yılı sonuna kadar teslimat gerçekleştirilmiştir. Şubat 2022 itibarıyla, milli foto-dedektör takımının farklı kalifikasyon testleri tamamlanmış, helikopter entegrasyonu ile uçuşlu testlerin (FHIT) gerçekleştirilmesi planlanmıştır.
NEFIS Projesi kapsamında UV Füze İkaz Sistemi’nin yüzde yüz yerli tasarım ile ihraç kısıtlamasının tamamen ortada"

"The critical elements within the Sensor Unit are; photo-detector and 6 different optical filters were supplied from Germany, all other sub-assemblies are produced locally. Due to the embargo initiated by the German government in 2017, these critical components could not be supplied and production was stopped.


The nationalization of the optical filters was completed in November 2020 and delivery was made by the end of 2021. As of February 2022, different qualification tests of the national photo-detector team have been completed, and it is planned to carry out helicopter integration and flight tests. Within the scope of NEFIS Project, the export restriction of the UV Missile Warning System with a hundred percent domestic design is completely obvious."


Also, another good article about ASELSAN IR development, you have to translate the site tho, I can't translate all of it now :/

ASELSAN'ın elektro-optik sensör teknolojileri - Defense Here

Işık, saniyede üç yüz bin kilometre hızla, doğrusal bir yönde ve titreşim hareketi yaparak yol alan foton adı verilen parçacıklardan oluşur. Doğada mutlak sıfır yani -273,15 °C’nin üzerinde sıcaklığı bulunan tüm nesneler bulundukları ortama foton yayar ve ısındıkça yaydıkları fotonun titreşimi...

www.defensehere.com

 

[Tonyukuk]

If Temel Kotil is telling the truth about rear-facing radar then we have an absolute monster of an air-superiority fighter awaiting us. Even in hostile airspace, enemy fighter's will have to think twice about trying to ambush the TFX from behind.

 

[Ravenman]

Greek And Indian Air Force Cooperation, BrahMos And Countering Turkey-Pakistan Axis

The visit of the head of the Indian Air Force to Greece is causing difficulties in Ankara and Islamabad. The Indian Air Force chief is likely to pay a visit

greekcitytimes.com

Not good, not good.

 

[Afif]

Greek And Indian Air Force Cooperation, BrahMos And Countering Turkey-Pakistan Axis

The visit of the head of the Indian Air Force to Greece is causing difficulties in Ankara and Islamabad. The Indian Air Force chief is likely to pay a visit

greekcitytimes.com

Not good, not good.

It's nothing! If you are confident in yourself and consistent with your long term development strategy with leverage and diplomacy visits like this now and in the future shouldn't even bother you a bit!

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Not
contrary to your description aselsan is very new in IR spectrum compared to companies like BAE SYSTEM, NORTHROP, LOCKHEED MARTIN THALES, RAFAEL, HENDSOLDT. Until Very recently aselsan used to import the phocal detectors from germany and israel to develop IR seekers. So producing ultra violate IR sensor like that one are on f35 is very hard thing to do for company like aselsan or tubitak ( but nevertheless we pray hopefully that they will be able to do it eventually )

Aselsan tested the first IR sensor in the late 1990s and since then, Aselsan MGEO unit has continued its development by non-stop R&D and has expanded its technology to MWIR, QWIP, SWIR and NIR detectors, microbolometers, Image intensifiers. You treat this company like a teenager because it works to localize all the components, from the cooling systems to the filters which were imported before. I think you should not come up with such assertive statements on some issues that you do not have an idea.

About UV sensors, As you can read from post above, after German embargo was imposed on UV sensors in 2017 purchased from Germany, not only the UV detectors which you call very hard thing to develop but also the filter systems were completely localized within scope of the NEFIS project.

With a similar approach, a new project was started under the name of KÖRFIS, under the main contractor of TUSAŞ, with the subcontracting of Aselsan, Tübitak Bilgem Iltaren and the 1st Air Maintenance Command. In addition to the missile detection system with UV detector, Körfis which will operate in the IR spectrum, will enable missile detection from far ranges. All these capabilities in IR and UV technologies will be used in BEOS, IRST and FSS systems.

 

[TR_123456]

Greek And Indian Air Force Cooperation, BrahMos And Countering Turkey-Pakistan Axis

The visit of the head of the Indian Air Force to Greece is causing difficulties in Ankara and Islamabad. The Indian Air Force chief is likely to pay a visit

greekcitytimes.com

Not good, not good.

Why not good?
Where will the fighter jet land afterwards,in Bulgaria,Macedonya or Malta?
You think there would be any runway left on Greek territory in a war?
No need to worry.