TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Anmdt]

Good question. It is still not too late to do so. Probably dealing with a war thorn Ukraine was easier than a RR that holds stronger cards in hand.

We should remember Adour is not wholely RR but RR&Turbomeca product, hence the French.

 

[Anmdt]

VTOL? For sake of God tell us your thoughts

I more referred to things related with production engineering, next iteration of the prototype, to be ready for the service, gain an operational status, new avionics, gap fillers etc. We shall notice it will need another iteration for supersonic flight.

 

[Yasar_TR]

We should remember Adour is not wholely RR but RR&Turbomeca product, hence the French.

You are correct. The engine was produced as RR-Turbomeca.
But Rolls Royce produces this engine as RR only in Derby. Also RR has licensed production of this engine in Japan with Mitsubishi and licensed parts production in India. So getting this engine from RR direct should not present a problem.
The Adour engine was the renamed version of RR RB172 jet engine.
Turboméca and its later parent company SNECMA was used in building the casings, compressors and afterburner, Rolls-Royce building the rest of the components, and both companies undertaking final assembly.
The engine was originally known as RR-RB172. Later the name was changed to Adour. So the roots lie in RR.

 

[Saithan]

You are correct. The engine was produced as RR-Turbomeca.
But Rolls Royce produces this engine as RR only in Derby. Also RR has licensed production of this engine in Japan with Mitsubishi and licensed parts production in India. So getting this engine from RR direct should not present a problem.
The Adour engine was the renamed version of RR RB172 jet engine.
Turboméca and its later parent company SNECMA was used in building the casings, compressors and afterburner, Rolls-Royce building the rest of the components, and both companies undertaking final assembly.
The engine was originally known as RR-RB172. Later the name was changed to Adour. So the roots lie in RR.

Specifications (Adour Mk 106)[edit]​

Data from Rolls-Royce[11]

General characteristics​

• Type: Turbofan
• Length: 114 inches (2.90 m)
• Diameter: 22.3 inches (0.57 m)
• Dry weight: 1,784 lb (809 kg)

Components​

• Compressor: 2-stage LP, 5-stage HP
• Turbine: 1-stage LP, 1-stage HP

Performance​

• Maximum thrust: 6,000 lb (27.0 KN) dry / 8,430 lb (37.5 KN) with reheat
• Overall pressure ratio: 10.4
• Bypass ratio: 0.75-0.8
• Fuel consumption: dry 0.81 lb/(lbf⋅h) (23 g/(kN⋅s))
• Thrust-to-weight ratio: 4.725

Specifications (T-2(K))[edit]​

Data from Jane's All The World's Aircraft 1976–77 [15]

General characteristics

• Crew: 2
• Length: 17.85 m (58 ft 7 in)
• Wingspan: 7.88 m (25 ft 10 in)
• Height: 4.39 m (14 ft 5 in)
• Wing area: 21.8 m2 (235 sq ft)
• Aspect ratio: 3
• Airfoil: NACA 65 series (modified)
• Empty weight: 6,197 kg (13,662 lb)
• Gross weight: 9,675 kg (21,330 lb) clean
• Max takeoff weight: 12,800 kg (28,219 lb) [16]
• Fuel capacity: 3,823 L (1,010 US gal; 841 imp gal) internal fuel, with provision for up to 3x 833 L (220 US gal; 183 imp gal) drop-tanks
• Powerplant: 2 × Ishikawa-Harima TF40-801A afterburning turbofan, 20.95 kN (4,710 lbf) thrust each dry, 31.76 kN (7,140 lbf) with afterburner

Performance

• Maximum speed: 1,700 km/h (1,100 mph, 920 kn) at 10,975 m (36,007 ft)[16]
• Maximum speed: Mach 1.6 at 11,000 m (36,000 ft) at MTOW clean
• Ferry range: 2,870 km (1,780 mi, 1,550 nmi) with 3x drop tanks
• Service ceiling: 15,240 m (50,000 ft)
• Rate of climb: 177.833 m/s (35,006.5 ft/min)
• Required field length: 1,525 m (5,003 ft)

Armament

• Guns: 1 × 20 mm JM61A1 cannon
• Hardpoints: One centreline and two underwing pylons
• Missiles: Provision for Two AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missile on wingtip missile rails

Mitsubishi T-2 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I found it interesting that it was used on a T-2 trainer jet. and the trainer jet weight was twice that of Hurjet. But the powerplant wasnt as powerful as F404.

I would have thought that Hurjet being bigger wingspan etc. and weighing less than T-2 could have potentially used the RR engine as powerplant.

Hurjet specs from Wiki

Specifications (projected)[edit]​

Data from Manufacturer[1][13][14][15][16]

General characteristics

• Crew: 2
• Length: 13 m (42 ft 8 in)
• Wingspan: 9.8 m (32 ft 2 in)
• Height: 5.1 m (16 ft 9 in)
• Wing area: 25 m2 (270 sq ft)
• Empty weight: 1,200 kg (2,646 lb)
• Gross weight: 2,721 kg (5,999 lb)
• Max takeoff weight: 6,500 kg (14,330 lb)
• Powerplant: 1 × F404-GE-102 afterburning turbofan, 78 kN (17,600 lbf) thrust

Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 1.4
• Cruise speed: 460 km/h (290 mph, 250 kn)
• Range: 2,222 km (1,381 mi, 1,200 nmi)
• Service ceiling: 13,716 m (45,000 ft)
• g limits: +8/-3 g
• Rate of climb: 200 m/s (39,000 ft/min)

Specifications (F404-GE-402)[edit]​

Data from General Electric[9]

General characteristics​

• Type: afterburning turbofan
• Length: 154 in (391 cm)
• Diameter: 35 in (89 cm)
• Dry weight: 2,282 lb (1,035 kg)

Components​

• Compressor: axial, with 3 fan and 7 HP stages
• Combustors: annular
• Turbine: 1 LP and 1 HP stage

Performance​

• Maximum thrust:
  • 11,000 lbf (48.9 kN) military thrust
  • 19,000 lbf (84.5 kN) with afterburner
• Overall pressure ratio: 28:1
• Bypass ratio: 0.36:1
• Air mass flow: 153 lb/s (70 kg/s)
• Specific fuel consumption:
  • Military thrust: 0.81 lb/(lbf⋅h) (23 g/(kN⋅s))
  • Full afterburner: 1.74 lb/(lbf⋅h) (49 g/(kN⋅s))
• Thrust-to-weight ratio: 4.8 (dry), 8.5 (afterburning)

I get the feeling that F404 is overkill on Hurjet, what am I missing ?

 

[Strong AI]

I get the feeling that F404 is overkill on Hurjet, what am I missing ?

Maybe there will be a twin engine naval fighter version of Hürjet. F/A-18 uses two F404 engines too.
And for the naval trainer version of Hürjet would be a single F404 engine enough.
So the reason could be maintenance.

 

[Anmdt]

You are correct. The engine was produced as RR-Turbomeca.
But Rolls Royce produces this engine as RR only in Derby. Also RR has licensed production of this engine in Japan with Mitsubishi and licensed parts production in India. So getting this engine from RR direct should not present a problem.
The Adour engine was the renamed version of RR RB172 jet engine.
Turboméca and its later parent company SNECMA was used in building the casings, compressors and afterburner, Rolls-Royce building the rest of the components, and both companies undertaking final assembly.
The engine was originally known as RR-RB172. Later the name was changed to Adour. So the roots lie in RR.

Roots may lie in RR but i am wondering things related to IP rights. If it is solely on RR, then one thing comes to my mind in selection of Ukranian enginer and it doesn't sound good.

And i keep telling this but it is neither easy to get engines, as whole product, from Ukraine let alone the local assembly or manufacturing.

 

[DBdev]

Why F404?
A stronger engine gives room to grow for heavier variants. No need to worry if engine could cause problems in a national first jet project since it is a very stable safe engine. F404 is designed for trainer jets according to GE. To minimize compressor stalls and other engine failures. Additionally, the engine was intended to respond quickly to control inputs, as novice jet pilots transitioning from propeller planes to jets often complained about the lack of responsiveness in early turbojets. Also whenever an engine purchase comes up TEI intervenes on behalf of their partner GE since they were the only company that accepted to co produce engines in Türkiye ever.

That's what happened with EJ200 vs F110 at least. Also related to that since THY is ordering 300+ planes that should also come with local engine & plane production deals. Turgut Özal was smarter than our current leaders. He made local engine and plane production part of the F-16 fighter jet purchase. PW and GE were 2 candidates, he said the company who accepts this will get the contract. Instead of just giving it away like THY is doing, same should be done to force Airbus and Boeing compete against each other.

 

[Oublious]

5 days left...

 

[Oublious]

2 days left.

 

[YeşilVatan]

I'm on the verge of starting a salavat zinciri for this thing to go without a hitch.

 

[fushkee]

Could she have already flown? Is it possible?

 

[uçuyorum]

When KAAN airframe becomes proper airworthy why don't we just quickly integrate avionics of özgür which are pretty much complete and MURAD that hopefully is like 2-3 years away for fastest interim solution? Are we planning to use BURFIS etc for first block? Because I don't want to be reading "Burfis prototype is being integrated to Akıncı-2 for tests" in 2035 while waiting for KAAN and even engine may be nearing completion.

 

[Zafer]

2 days left.

2 days, right ?

 

[Samba]

Why have not we heard much ground test news prior to the flight? Any ideas?

 

[buraktunahan]

Why have not we heard much ground test news prior to the flight? Any ideas?

Ours is the only 5th generation fighter jet built under the eyes of the media all over the world. Of course, the elections in May also had an impact on this. But don't expect too much news and images (videos and photos) about KAAN anymore. From now on, the project will be carried out as it should be, out of sight and secret.

 

[Boz]

Tomorrow.

Çakal Çökerten Zeybeği
00:27 ━❍──────── 2:17
◁◁ ▐ ▌ ▷▷
VOLUME: ▁▂▃▄▅▆▇ 100%​

 

[Zafer]

They should sell tickets for Kaan first flight viewing starting at $10.000 each and delay video leaks for a week.

 

[Sanchez]

welp no halay for tomorrow. now gotta wonder if that habertürk piece was true or if this is a last minute thing.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1739630099115159985

 

[Sanchez]

Taxi tests wasn't started yet? Then that Habertürk piece was correct.
"KAAN will make its first flight in a few weeks

According to the information we have obtained, KAAN's ejection seat tests, full-length static tests, inertial and static tests of the control surfaces, landing gear drop tests, avionic system tests in the system integration laboratory, fuel tests and engine start-up tests have been carried out so far. Following the completion of ground tests and taxi tests, KAAN is expected to make its first flight in a few weeks."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1739631051046011188

 

[Boz]

While my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined, if it's for the best then it is for the best. Better safe than sorry.