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TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

Bürküt

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Almost no information regarding the Tempest programme is made public. It is speculated that it will be a very large aircraft. It is speculated that electrical power generation will be 400kw. The demonstrator being built may reveal the level of electrical power output.


That sounds reasonable.

My gut reaction is that even if there are minimal problems with the TF6000, a 35,000 lb thrust engine is a very different proposition. The same is almost as true when you compare a 10,000 lb thrust engine to a 35,000 lb thrust engine.

What makes people so confident that the TF35K will not face design and development problems? TEI does not have the technology of the major OEM's. It strikes me as a lttle naive to think that they would get a 35,000 lb thrust engine just about right at the first attempt.
First of all, 35 000 lb is very ambitious, yes I agree.But TF35k is being developed to be form fit to F15's engines.In other words, it is enough for us that it performs similar to the engines of the aircraft of the 1970s.By the way, I think reaching 24-26 000 lb with dry thrust is a more difficult goal to achieve than reaching 35 000 lb with afterburner.
 

Merzifonlu

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I think reaching 24-26 000 lb with dry thrust is a more difficult goal to achieve than reaching 35 000 lb with afterburner.
What makes the engine challenging is not just the desired 25.000 lb level dry thrust. While giving this thrust level, this engine will blow out as much cold air as possible and will also be a "mini power plant". The weight of the engine that can do all this should not exceed 1800 kg. It's a very difficult task.
 
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Yasar_TR

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First of all, 35 000 lb is very ambitious, yes I agree.But TF35k is being developed to be form fit to F15's engines.In other words, it is enough for us that it performs similar to the engines of the aircraft of the 1970s.By the way, I think reaching 24-26 000 lb with dry thrust is a more difficult goal to achieve than reaching 35 000 lb with afterburner.
To add to the above just look at f110GE129 and f110GE132 engines.
The former is a 17155lbf dry, 29000lbf wet thrust engine.
The latter is a 19000lbf dry, 32500lbf wet thrust engine.

By improving the compressor, combustion and airflow parameters of the same engine and augmenting it “a little” engineering wise, 15% to 20% thrust improvement has been obtained. Now TEI has access to the internals and schematics of this improvement as well as being party to most of its parts production. It is the GE centre of maintenance and repair for the f110ge132.

With that sort of know how under it’s belt TEI is well qualified to squeeze out a lot of thrust from an engine that is f110 size. But taking TF10K as a starting point, the engine TEI is aspiring to build in TF35K is a higher by pass engine as @Merzifonlu has pointed out. It has different parameters and the design is probably going to be fairly unique and individual. To obtain 26000lbf dry thrust is the goal. That will allow KAAN to fly and operate at its optimum and provide enough power for all auxiliary units and probable directed energy weapons.
So we will wait and see. TF6000 will shed a lot of light about where we stand in the future of TF35K.
 
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Been trying to find this figure for so long, thank you so much
Thanks. It is speculative. I think I read it on a forum devoted to Tempest/GCAP.

Dating back to 2020 - before the Tempest programme link up with Japan - here is a RR press release webpage which might be of interest.


Whether that technology will be transferred into a Japanese design based engine I do not know.

PS


While the GCAP programme has not yet been launched (a yes/no decision to choose a design and take it to production is 1-2 years away), the aim is to produce a prototype engine by the late 2020's and have the engine used in the fighter by the mid-2030's. So, around 10 more years before it goes into production. I appreciate that TEI will be aiming at a lower level of technology with TF35K. Can a finalised TF35K be tested, certified and put into production in the next 5 years? I don't suppose that is actually critical since it is not the only engine that can be used to power the KAAN.

PPS

Any news on Azerbaijan, Pakistan involvement?
 
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Merzifonlu

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Can a finalised TF35K be tested, certified and put into production in the next 5 years?
Only (and maybe) tested in the next 5 years. No certified and no put into production.

It all depends on the developments in the TF-6k engine. IMO, If TF-6k engine produces at least 4500+ lb thrust on its first ignition and the TF-6k program goes very very smoothly, then the TF-35k engine will be fired for the first time towards the end of 2028.

PPS: No news yet.
 
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Spitfire9

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Only (and maybe) tested in the next 5 years. No certified and no put into production.

It all depends on the developments in the TF-6k engine. IMO, If TF-6k engine produces at least 4500+ lb thrust on its first ignition and the TF-6k program goes very very smoothly, then the TF-35k engine will be fired for the first time towards the end of 2028.

PPS: No news yet.
My apologies. I was confused by thinking that plan was for the engine to be integrated on the KAAN in 2028 and to fly that year. I await seeing what results are shown by the TF6000 when it is run.

Just a thought: the KAAN might fly before the Indian AMCA prototype construction and testing programme gets the go ahead - yet both programmes started in the same year!
 

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My apologies. I was confused by thinking that plan was for the engine to be integrated on the KAAN in 2028 and to fly that year. I await seeing what results are shown by the TF6000 when it is run.
The engine's integration to KAAN in 2028 is the current official schedule(per Mr. Temel Kotil).

However, the schedule @Merzifonlu gave is closer to the reality, imho.
 

Merzifonlu

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In fact, I think that the TF-35k engine will be integrated into Kaan immediately after the first ignition and the Kaan prototype that will fly with that engine will be flown as Kaan unmanned.

Since our schedule is very tight, I think both the TF-6k and TF-35k engines will be integrated into the drones immediately after the first ignition and tested that way. So we will use slightly different procedures than standard testing procedures.

And yes, I think TAI CEO Dr. Temel Kotil is speaking too optimistically. The TF-35k engine can be integrated into the unmanned Kaan prototype, in my opinion, in the second quarter of 2029 at the earliest.
 

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Kaan is a twin engine plane equipped with an ejection seat. It can fly with an engine out by design. TF35k can fly on Kaan and fly Kaan to safety when a foreign engine goes dead.
 

Merzifonlu

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Kaan is a twin engine plane equipped with an ejection seat. It can fly with an engine out by design. TF35k can fly on Kaan and fly Kaan to safety when a foreign engine goes dead.
Yes, of course. But by flying unmanned, you get a lot of flight hours. That's why I think tests will be done with unmanned aircraft.
 

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Newly released footage from TF-X's assembly & system integration phase. Taken months ago.

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Center fuselage, aft of the turtle neck of the Hürjet

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Hürjet's canopy frame. Pictured inside the assembly facility.

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Spitfire9

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Annual inflation is reported to be 61.5%. In Europe it is more like 5%. It looks like the government is spectacularly incompetent at managing the economy. Will foreign countries be put off getting involved in the KAAN project?

Would I invest in a venture in Turkiye which has an insane level of inflation? Almost certainly not. Would I invest in a venture with the Turkish government? Certainly not.

 

Bogeyman 

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Annual inflation is reported to be 61.5%. In Europe it is more like 5%. It looks like the government is spectacularly incompetent at managing the economy. Will foreign countries be put off getting involved in the KAAN project?

Would I invest in a venture in Turkiye which has an insane level of inflation? Almost certainly not. Would I invest in a venture with the Turkish government? Certainly not.

What does the bad state of the Turkish economy have to do with the Kaan project? Last time I checked, the economy wasn't so bad that I couldn't finance the Kaan project. In fact, recently the total fund allocated for the defense industry was around 40 billion dollars. So what has you so excited?
 

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Annual inflation is reported to be 61.5%. In Europe it is more like 5%. It looks like the government is spectacularly incompetent at managing the economy. Will foreign countries be put off getting involved in the KAAN project?

Would I invest in a venture in Turkiye which has an insane level of inflation? Almost certainly not. Would I invest in a venture with the Turkish government? Certainly not.

Who told you that Türkiye is looking for investors in the project?
Do not worry, because this project is crucial for Turkey and it will be completed
 

Rodeo

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Annual inflation is reported to be 61.5%. In Europe it is more like 5%. It looks like the government is spectacularly incompetent at managing the economy. Will foreign countries be put off getting involved in the KAAN project?

Would I invest in a venture in Turkiye which has an insane level of inflation? Almost certainly not. Would I invest in a venture with the Turkish government? Certainly not.

It's irrelevant if there are foreign investors or not. The money is already earmarked. We do not count on others to fund the most important project in the history of the republic.
 

Baryshx

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Annual inflation is reported to be 61.5%. In Europe it is more like 5%. It looks like the government is spectacularly incompetent at managing the economy. Will foreign countries be put off getting involved in the KAAN project?

Would I invest in a venture in Turkiye which has an insane level of inflation? Almost certainly not. Would I invest in a venture with the Turkish government? Certainly not.

Good thing you're not involved in the Kaan project 😅
 
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boredaf

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Will foreign countries be put off getting involved in the KAAN project?
What a weird thing to say. It's not like a Western power was looking to invest into Kaan as a partner but might be put off by the state of the economy. That is never going to happen. Countries that might invest in it either don't have any other realistic alternative for a 5th gen fighter, like Azerbaijan, or have so much money that they don't really care about wasting/losing some, like Gulf states. For both of those categories, we are the only choice for a 5th gen fighter without cutting ties with the West altogether and going all in on China.
 
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