TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[dBSPL]

It is possible for heavy aircrafts with a wing area of less than 13-14 meters to land on roads in many region of Turkiye, but especially in the inner western Anatolia. I don't want to give details here, but this is something that is already taken into consideration in the projects of the Transportation, from leveling and infrastructure to expropriation works if necessary. Not for every road , but for as many as necessary. In addition, the standard width of the newly constructed highway tunnels is +21 meters and the standard height is approximately 9 meters, all of these tunnels were built using the NATM method or with TBM and in accordance with the technical regulations that can remain active in earthquakes of at least 7.25 moment without any damage. There are similar roads on the other side of the border in Bulgaria, even if they are dilapidated from lack of maintenance. When I passed with car about 10 years ago, it was in incredibly bad shape, I don't know its current condition. There are similar roads in Greece too. I think almost all of the NATO countries in this region have asphalt roads, either left over from the Cold War era or still well maintained, wide and level enough for jets to land on.

The situation in Sweden is different, it's not just about jets landing on paved roads. It's about a fully distributed logistics system approach, which includes hiding the combat aircraft of the air force in the forests and performing ground maintenance activities there, if necessary. The reasons are obvious: the Soviet strategic bombing capability. Very for this reason, both generations of fighter jets developed by the Swedes have been fighter jets with a minimal logistics footprint. The F-35 may be able to land on the edge of the forests, yes, but can you provide ground maintenance and logistics with units carried on trailers behind the pickups? It is debatable how suitable the aircraft's information management system is for this approach, let alone the logistics. Anyway, I will not get into this ball too much since it has too many fans.

Anyway, in conclusion, I don't think that F-16 will be the last single-engine fighter in the history of Turkish Air Force. KAAN start fill from above as direct F-22 competitor, and unmanned jets like Anka-3 and KE will start from below; solution range of Turkish aviation industry will be shaped to meet all needs in time. At the same time, I think such discussions also indicate the point at which the Turkish aviation industry has reached. Still, I would rather discuss whether KE can hide in the forests before KAAN

 

[MADDOG]

Touch screen developed by STG for Turkey's 5th generation fighter jet KAAN. Unlike the F-35 screen, the design does not reflect. The current design, which was tested on KAAN's first prototype and received feedback, was exhibited at SAHA EXPO. - Avionout

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1850539913919254608

Thank you for posting. STG has done a fantastic job with it. Mind the fingers, the screen is usually quite hot

TAI is currently using the internally developed LAD on Hurjet now, but STG also plans to integrate their platform on the Hurjet and that deal is progressing nicely.

Their focal point is standardization. They aim to equip a wide range of platforms with the same large area display in the not too distant future.

 

[Quasar]

So? I don't remember denying any overlaps or similarities bwtween two concepts or underpinning operational logic.

You said something very specific though. ACE is "the very same reflection of the very same idea if you look a bit carefully".

I disagreed and said, it is more than that.

Swedes didn't had any robust IAMD (specially BMD) like US military so they were disproportionately reliant on distributed operations from remote airfields and highways. USAF ACE CONOP very much include all types of active defenses of permanent bases and relies on it. While being contested, they expect to continuesly operate from there. However, it also conclude, IAMD, hardening and other measures are not fully sufficient. So, it reduces its sole reliance on permanent bases and distribute a good portion of its operations to small airfields and highways from the get-go.

Also, proactive intelligence plays an important role in force protection and risk management aspects of ACE. The quality and the quantity of which Swedes never had.

When, I am talking about KAAN landing on highways I am not merely copy pasting the Swedish concept. It's more similar to ACE. Where TurAF or any other friendly nation that operates KAAN has IAMD (including BMD) to protect permanent airbases and and contiue to fight for it and operate from there. At the same time distributing a portion of its operations to remote airfields and even highways.




I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence. It was a simple question. And frankly, now it seems more relevant given you quoted something that isn't exactly from USAF ACE doctrine.

https://www.doctrine.af.mil/Portals/61/documents/AFDN_1-21/AFDN%201-21%20ACE.pdf

1-ACE 2022 conicides with two major events... Russian Ukranian war and the first time NATO singled out that China is one of its strategic priorities for the next decade....


2-The concept of Agile Combat Employment (ACE) may not be entirely new nor radical but the complexities of modern warfare necessitate a number of modifications resulting in an approach as a ‘proactive and reactive operational scheme of manoeuvre executed within threat timelines to increase survivability while generating combat power’; the core tenets of ACE have always been a requirement for both US and NATO forces
(Air Force Doctrine Note 1-21, Agile Combat Employment, United States Air Force, 2022, p. 1.)

3-In essence ACE is a REACTION to the fact of reduced time for adversaries to find and target air power while on the ground, the accuracy of the weapons used against these targets, and the real or perceived higher value of modern complex air power assets

Should Turkey implement its own ACE doctrine... First of all NATO is an integral part of ACE therefore Turkey ....

-Unfortunatly, our interoperability wth our friendly nations is nothing near to our interoperability with NATO memebers.


AND you know this is not only about KAAN ....operational challenges of the coordination of complex aircrafts with a long logistic tail Not only KAAN but you know we have PEACE EAGLEs, ASENAs, HAVASOJs, MPAs....F16s.... drones..... same operatipnal challanges for Main Operating Bases, Forward Operating Sites, Contingency Locations ..... Initial sites that has minimal external support, Temporary sites with small amount of external support or Semi-Permanent sites with consistent support.... and all of them will be in constat motion.....Multi-Capable Airmen – personnel who are trained to and able to execute tasks beyond their primary trained specialism or cross-functional teams.... traning .... development of new tactics, techniques, and procedures.... investment in infrastructure

so in EssEnce still yes this is not any diffrent than SWEDEN in COLD WAR to me

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I’m not a fan of Kaan rear design.

View attachment 71617

Engines that are wide apart are not as stealthy. Hiding the thermals will be difficult.

There may be advantages in close range dogfighting with TVC but that’s it.

When engines are closer together you have a more streamlined flow which increases fuel efficiency. It’s much easier to hide heat signature (stealth). And it could make it easier to fly if one engine goes out.

The heat signature of an engine plays a subordinate role in the air combat of the 21st century.
This is because aerial combat will take place beyond visual range, hence the development of stealth fighter aircraft by all major industrialized nations such as the USA, Russia, China and the EU.
Whoever spots the enemy on radar first and launches their BVR missiles has basically won.
If a stealth fighter is involved in a close dogfight, then the pilot has done something wrong.

This is also evident in the F-35's stealth, avionics, electronic warfare suite and AESA radar capabilities, which are superior even to those of the F-22 - the F-35 is a flying supercomputer.
The F-22 is a relic from the 20th century that assumed there would still be air combat like the Top Gun era with the first sophisticated stealth BVR capabilities.
It is still the best fighter in the world and in a 1 and 1 against the F-35, the F-35 would have no chance against the F-22 Raptor, but in a dogfight in Beyond Visaul Range, precisely because of the more advanced stealth technology, and the AESA radar and its electronic features of the F-35.
The F-22 would have great difficulty locating the aircraft to get close enough to take it out.

 

[Huelague]

I’m not a fan of Kaan rear design.

View attachment 71617

Engines that are wide apart are not as stealthy. Hiding the thermals will be difficult.

There may be advantages in close range dogfighting with TVC but that’s it.

When engines are closer together you have a more streamlined flow which increases fuel efficiency. It’s much easier to hide heat signature (stealth). And it could make it easier to fly if one engine goes out.

Dont worry, final version will get a F-22 -like TVC...
Inshallah.

 

[chngr]

The heat signature of an engine plays a subordinate role in the air combat of the 21st century.
This is because aerial combat will take place beyond visual range, hence the development of stealth fighter aircraft by all major industrialized nations such as the USA, Russia, China and the EU.
Whoever spots the enemy on radar first and launches their BVR missiles has basically won.
If a stealth fighter is involved in a close dogfight, then the pilot has done something wrong.

This is also evident in the F-35's stealth, avionics, electronic warfare suite and AESA radar capabilities, which are superior even to those of the F-22 - the F-35 is a flying supercomputer.
The F-22 is a relic from the 20th century that assumed there would still be air combat like the Top Gun era with the first sophisticated stealth BVR capabilities.
It is still the best fighter in the world and in a 1 and 1 against the F-35, the F-35 would have no chance against the F-22 Raptor, but in a dogfight in Beyond Visaul Range, precisely because of the more advanced stealth technology, and the AESA radar and its electronic features of the F-35.
The F-22 would have great difficulty locating the aircraft to get close enough to take it out.

The heat signature of an engine plays a subordinate role in the air combat of the 21st century.
This is because aerial combat will take place beyond visual range, hence the development of stealth fighter aircraft by all major industrialized nations such as the USA, Russia, China and the EU.
Whoever spots the enemy on radar first and launches their BVR missiles has basically won.
If a stealth fighter is involved in a close dogfight, then the pilot has done something wrong.

This is also evident in the F-35's stealth, avionics, electronic warfare suite and AESA radar capabilities, which are superior even to those of the F-22 - the F-35 is a flying supercomputer.
The F-22 is a relic from the 20th century that assumed there would still be air combat like the Top Gun era with the first sophisticated stealth BVR capabilities.
It is still the best fighter in the world and in a 1 and 1 against the F-35, the F-35 would have no chance against the F-22 Raptor, but in a dogfight in Beyond Visaul Range, precisely because of the more advanced stealth technology, and the AESA radar and its electronic features of the F-35.
The F-22 would have great difficulty locating the aircraft to get close enough to take it out.

If everyone has a stealth plane, wouldn't this increase the possibility of WVR?

And wouldn't detecting the heat signature be even more important?

What your say fits the 4th generation air warfare

 

[IC3M@N FX]

If everyone has a stealth plane, wouldn't this increase the possibility of WVR?

And wouldn't detecting the heat signature be even more important?

What your say fits the 4th generation air warfare

Makes no sense to detect the heat signature, you must first locate the aircraft and get close enough to fire missiles with an infrared seeker. Then you can also fire BVR missiles at the target from a safe distance and don't even have to get close, it's far less risky than active close combat.

You have to think of these planes as assassins that kill the target quickly and inconspicuously and quickly move away from the danger zone. Under no circumstances will they get involved in a fight if it is not necessary.

 

[Oublious]

RAM from a private company in Turkiye.

 

[Huelague]

RAM from a private company in Turkiye.

Company like that must be well protected by Cybersecurity.

 

[Hannibal]

Kaan with 2D TVC.

 

[Huelague]

Kaan with 2D TVC.

View attachment 71630
View attachment 71631
View attachment 71632 View attachment 71633

Yes, that is it.
Can you lower the canopy?

 

[Heartbang]

If everyone has a stealth plane, wouldn't this increase the possibility of WVR?

And wouldn't detecting the heat signature be even more important?

What your say fits the 4th generation air warfare

With the help of IRST and networked targeting, it is possible to generate actionable targeting track and fire a missile at a stealth jet from around 100 kilometers away without emitting a peep with your radar.

 

[Quasar]

Thank you for posting. STG has done a fantastic job with it. Mind the fingers, the screen is usually quite hot

TAI is currently using the internally developed LAD on Hurjet now, but STG also plans to integrate their platform on the Hurjet and that deal is progressing nicely.

Their focal point is standardization. They aim to equip a wide range of platforms with the same large area display in the not too distant future.

welcome back like @Ripley you were not around for quite long time @MADDOG

 

[boredaf]

Does anyone know if the vertical stabilizers design will change with the new prototype in 2025?
View attachment 71817
Why does it sit on top of the engine section, and not on the sides?
They leave a big gap for some reason??
View attachment 71818

Is there any part of Kaan that you don't find bad? Every other week you make a post to say another part of the plane is terribly made. What is your problem with Kaan and what are you qualifications to complain about the whole plane as you have done so far?

 

[boredaf]

If you want to read only good things go to another site. Plenty of other places you can go for the nationalist echo chamber you’re looking for.

And I never said it was terrible, I’m criticising certain aspects. If you can’t take it, go somewhere else.

LMFAO calling me a nationalist, thanks for making my day. I never said I only wanted to read good things, but there is a massive difference in that and trying to understand why someone constantly shits on Kaan with almost all of their posts, pointing out this point or that point and calling it was made wrong etc. Seriously, what are your qualifications to say that? What do you know that engineers at TAI don't?

 

[Kitra]

If you want to read only good things go to another site. Plenty of other places you can go for the nationalist echo chamber you’re looking for.

And I never said it was terrible, I’m criticising certain aspects. If you can’t take it, go somewhere else.

What you did was similar to complaining that a car is blue instead of red. It does not make any sense.

You, like most of us including me have zero experiance in designing stealth aircrafts but for some reason you felt like complaining about a thing you have no knowledge about. In order to criticize, you need to know that a certain aspect is bad. In this case, you have no knowledge at all if it is good or bad in order to expect if they will change it or not.

 

[CAN_TR]

And I never said it was terrible, I’m criticising certain aspects. If you can’t take it, go somewhere else.

Your criticism is based on what? Does the looks bother you or do you think the aerospace engineers who tested that aircraft probably hundreds of times with computer simulations and in the wind tunnel facility made a mistake?

 

[Strong AI]

Guys! Let’s not get carried away please.
Instead of getting personal, focus on the subject in hand.
Not everybody will be of the same opinion as you. Taking that in to account, please discuss yor views civilly without being nasty to each other.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Quote:
advantage of having twin vertical stabilizers is that the location of vertical tails helps in having control authority at high alpha(where the fuselage/wing can blank a single vertical stabilizer). In modern stealth aircraft, having a twin tail enables them to be canted, helping in reducing RCS.
Having twin vertical stabilizers reduces their size, resulting in reduced stress at stabilizer root and reduction in weight.
In case of twin engined aircraft with engines spaced wide apart, having twin rudders helps in getting sufficient rudder authority in case of an engine failure.
Unquote.

They are also there to mask engine exhaust.

So they are not there to please our eyes. But serve a purpose.

 

[Saithan]

Why isn't it Pink 🫣