Turkish Naval Programs

what

Contributor
Moderator
Messages
1,010
Reactions
2,704
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
There is a good chance Oto Melara is being sold to the Germans or a French+German consortium.

So in the near future we would have no access to 76mm guns at all. This couldn't have come at a better time. We would have been left with the British 57mm or American 127mm.

Not to mention the immense delays the TN has faced from Oto Melara. Which was reason enough to develop an indigenous 76mm.

I also have seen some fellows trying to criticize the project by trying to compare the Oto Melara 76mm with this gun.

And honestly if anyone is bothered by this being a copy, if it is one at all, of the Oto Melara gun can cry in a corner.


According to Handelsblatt KNDS (French, German company) will offer around 650m € for Oto Melara to the Leonardo Group.
 

CAN_TR

Contributor
Messages
904
Reactions
3,084
Nation of residence
Austria
Nation of origin
Turkey
WOW not only OTO Melara but also WASS (torpedo manufacturer) is mentioned those two are really important comapnies for the Italian Armed Forces.

OTO Melara is not only producing naval guns btw. but also, the Ariete MBT, IFV and other armored vehicles. The French and Germans trying to eliminate all of their competitors in Europe.
 

TheInsider

Contributor
Messages
1,342
Reactions
4,868
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Can you explain to us what makes the MKE gun “a lot” better than super rapid please? (Apart from being indigenous)
It has a longer barrel life compared to super rapid. It has fully digitalized controls, it is fully integrated with Genesys Advent. It has more precise stabilization and less deviation at the full range. It has the ability to use both seawater and freshwater as a coolant. Seawater causes many problems as a coolant so from time to time the system needs to be flushed with fresh water. There is also a deicing system on MKE 76mm gun. Super rapid doesn't have those abilities.
 
Last edited:

Ecderha

Well-known member
Messages
314
Reactions
776
Nation of residence
Bulgaria
There is a good chance Oto Melara is being sold to the Germans or a French+German consortium.

So in the near future we would have no access to 76mm guns at all. This couldn't have come at a better time. We would have been left with the British 57mm or American 127mm.

Not to mention the immense delays the TN has faced from Oto Melara. Which was reason enough to develop an indigenous 76mm.

I also have seen some fellows trying to criticize the project by trying to compare the Oto Melara 76mm with this gun.

And honestly if anyone is bothered by this being a copy, if it is one at all, of the Oto Melara gun can cry in a corner.
As you may know why lot of Italy companies are in bad position.
Defaulted EU countries-
-greece 260% debt
-Italy 170% debt
-spain 130% debt
-france 98% debt

Germany and UK were taking debts of above countries (shifting the owner for specific time and giving money). Remember this is debt which is THERE and only change is that it is put on long term of paying little by little but this DEBT must be paid.

What Italy and Spain DO is that they offer CREDITS in Turkiye so -> Turks becoming worker to pay DEBT which is provided by foriener bank Italy and Spain. When Turk pay little by little his debt then -> Italy and Spain banks Pay their own Debts.

france and greece try to do the same in Turkiye but they are not So Big in providing bank Creadits to Turks


At end Turks by taking credit from foreiner bank they work and pay debts of own and others.Also by doing this they Fuck own Lira exchange


Bottom line is THAT if Italy companies do NOT have forieners to buy their product they can NOT close fiancial year without paying Already Debts which they have.

So Company MUST be SOLD-> But Company is Military one with Strategic imporntants so -> EU Germany and France Will MUST BUY IT
IF this buying of Italy company by EU was NOT want to buy it. Then be 100% sure that china or russia or other will BUY IT
 
Last edited:

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
3,286
Reactions
4 12,630
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
MKE 76/62 will likely be tested on the B-Class corvette that is undergoing a retrofit and upgrade in Izmir Naval Shipyard. (Guessing by assumptions only)

If there was a test vessel with a dedicated gun mount, we wouldn't need to spare one of the ships for this duty of tests planned to continue throughout the year.
 

Yasar

Experienced member
Lead Moderator
Professional
Messages
1,548
Reactions
2 6,163
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
It has a longer barrel life compared to super rapid. It has fully digitalized controls, it is fully integrated with Genesys Advent. It has more precise stabilization and less deviation at the full range. It has the ability to use both seawater and freshwater as a coolant. Seawater causes many problems as a coolant so from time to time the system needs to be flushed with fresh water. There is also a deicing system on MKE 76mm gun. Super rapid doesn't have those abilities.
Thanks for the reply.
However comparing 80rounds per minute gun’s barrel life to a 120 rounds per minute gun is not fair. Slower gun should inherently have a longer barrel life anyway. I know that MKE has been developing a very long lasting coating for the gun barrels and improving the gun barrel life. So when MKE produces the 120 rounds per minute version and better Super Rapido’s barrel life , then this argument will be more valid.
TCG Kinaliada has Genesis system and also has Super Rapido. Are you saying that TCG Kinaliada’s Genesis system can’t control it’s main gun?
Leonardo claims that the Super Rapido has a “Digital Control Console”.

It is a fact that, in the US when tested, standard Oto Melara Gun at sustained firing, almost self destroyed. With the new Super Rapido, they claim they have resolved these issues and made a more stable, lighter and precise gun.
Being one of the most common users of this gun, and MKE making certain parts of it, I can envisage us making a very capable gun with a number of improvements over the “Compact” version.
 

what

Contributor
Moderator
Messages
1,010
Reactions
2,704
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
WOW not only OTO Melara but also WASS (torpedo manufacturer) is mentioned those two are really important comapnies for the Italian Armed Forces.

OTO Melara is not only producing naval guns btw. but also, the Ariete MBT, IFV and other armored vehicles. The French and Germans trying to eliminate all of their competitors in Europe.

France and Germany want to create joint European tanks, jets etc, and they are going to do it either the cooperation way or the I'll buy your companies way.


Just to add to that, the EU is looking to create European defence giants similar to Airbus. Nexter and KMW merger was the first step, adding Italian capabilities makes it a step closer to have the Airbus of tanks and armoured vehicles. Leonardo should just join the JV instead of selling their pearls.

Italy was apparently interested in joining the project while Poland was rejected.

 
Last edited:

what

Contributor
Moderator
Messages
1,010
Reactions
2,704
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
So Company MUST be SOLD-> But Company is Military one with Strategic imporntants so -> EU Germany and France Will MUST BUY IT
IF this buying of Italy company by EU was NOT want to buy it. Then be 100% sure that china or russia or other will BUY IT

Except that Leonardo is a private company, 70% of the shares are not owned by the Italian government. The Italian government wont see a single cent of the money, I doubt that they will distribute anything in dividends to its owners but reinvest.

 

TheInsider

Contributor
Messages
1,342
Reactions
4,868
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Thanks for the reply.
However comparing 80rounds per minute gun’s barrel life to a 120 rounds per minute gun is not fair. Slower gun should inherently have a longer barrel life anyway. I know that MKE has been developing a very long lasting coating for the gun barrels and improving the gun barrel life. So when MKE produces the 120 rounds per minute version and better Super Rapido’s barrel life , then this argument will be more valid.
TCG Kinaliada has Genesis system and also has Super Rapido. Are you saying that TCG Kinaliada’s Genesis system can’t control it’s main gun?
Leonardo claims that the Super Rapido has a “Digital Control Console”.

It is a fact that, in the US when tested, standard Oto Melara Gun at sustained firing, almost self destroyed. With the new Super Rapido, they claim they have resolved these issues and made a more stable, lighter and precise gun.
Being one of the most common users of this gun, and MKE making certain parts of it, I can envisage us making a very capable gun with a number of improvements over the “Compact” version.
MKE gun barrel has a life of 2500 shots. Super Rapids barrel has around 1700-1800. MKE gun is completely digital. This means it has encoders and servos rather than hydraulics(in fact MKE gun has both hydraulic and servos in case servos fail) super rapid doesn't have that and it is not a completely digital system. Having a digital console doesn't mean it is completely digital from one end to the other. MKE gun is completely digital from the console to the gun barrel. Everything can be monitored from the command console. This is also the reason the MKE gun is more precise and has better stabilization.
 

Saithan

Experienced member
Denmark Correspondent
Messages
6,765
Reactions
1 15,416
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Turkey
Well, I'm glad to hear good news from MKE and hope the company can transform to a topnotch defense company in all layers.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
3,286
Reactions
4 12,630
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Any benefits over Aselsan's STAMP II ?
Probably more local content and a lower price.

I am not sure why would Navy pick something and ASFAT sign contract for something that hasn't even made a debut or tested. I remember how hard they have been on Aselsan while Stamp was being developed and tested and now Unirobotics have been awarded an order for a weapon system which is not yet existing or not proven to meet the requirements. It is good to have different manufacturers and i am sure Unirobotics will be more aggressive in exports compared to the Aselsan.

I think, Aselsan's stamp can easily use Canik's 12.7 mm MG?
 

tornadoss

Contributor
Messages
525
Reactions
974
Nation of residence
Czechia
Nation of origin
Turkey
Probably more local content and a lower price.

I am not sure why would Navy pick something and ASFAT sign contract for something that hasn't even made a debut or tested. I remember how hard they have been on Aselsan while Stamp was being developed and tested and now Unirobotics have been awarded an order for a weapon system which is not yet existing or not proven to meet the requirements. It is good to have different manufacturers and i am sure Unirobotics will be more aggressive in exports compared to the Aselsan.

I think, Aselsan's stamp can easily use Canik's 12.7 mm MG?
What about optics? How good are they compared to Aselsan? I guess they will outsource from some other company. I checked their products and there is nothing much.
And, are there any products used by TAF currently?
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
3,286
Reactions
4 12,630
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
What about optics? How good are they compared to Aselsan? I guess they will outsource from some other company. I checked their products and there is nothing much.
And, are there any products used by TAF currently?
I have no comments on this but it is wrong in so many ways. The weapon system is already made and available locally and it makes no point to award a contract for non-existent product for a duplicate. They could get Tubitak or SSB's R&D support or incentives, develop the system and then offer it to ASFAT.

Unirobotics is a JV of Unidef and Omur Bac (an enterprenaur). How good they are compared to Aselsan? I think the answer is obvious.

There is something fishy, but let them finish the gun and let us see the performance, if they make it happen Turkey will add one more company that can produce stabilized weapon
 

Huelague

Experienced member
Messages
1,807
Reactions
2,050
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
That's only better, would mean we have a perfect synergy in our defense industry. Exactly what we want.
Synergy is one thing. Corruption, nepotism and inability another (regarding to MKEK). Companies must work together (synergy) but you have to able to do your job.
 

Cypro

Contributor
Messages
462
Reactions
1,245
Nation of residence
Northern Cyprus
Nation of origin
Northern Cyprus
I have no comments on this but it is wrong in so many ways. The weapon system is already made and available locally and it makes no point to award a contract for non-existent product for a duplicate. They could get Tubitak or SSB's R&D support or incentives, develop the system and then offer it to ASFAT.

Unirobotics is a JV of Unidef and Omur Bac (an enterprenaur). How good they are compared to Aselsan? I think the answer is obvious.

There is something fishy, but let them finish the gun and let us see the performance, if they make it happen Turkey will add one more company that can produce stabilized weapon

It smells like another corruption attempt. Aselsan's product is matured, developed over years and it is "Aselsan". No way a newcomer could be better with non-proven product.
 
Top Bottom