TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[OPTIMUS]

Unfortunately i have bad news for some members here.

Selcuk Bayraktar:

"[...] We will start ship trials of TB3 soon."

Selçuk Bayraktar: Yakında TB3'ün gemi denemelerine başlayacağız

TEKNOFEST Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı Selçuk Bayraktar, test aşamalarını başarıyla geçen Bayraktar TB3'ün yakın zamanda gemi testlerine başlayacağını

ekonomi.haber7.com

that's good news, although this "soon" is relative time delivery. I hope in the test with the ANADOLU they would see where they made mistakes.

 

[OPTIMUS]

Total BS.

I can already tell that you won't even spend a night on the open sea on deck.

 

[TheInsider]

I can already tell that you won't even spend a night on the open sea on deck.

Irrelevant and ad hominem. TB3 will EASILY take off from the deck of TCG Anadolu with a full combat load of 1450kg, the land variant of TB3 has an MTOW of 1600kg.

 

[somegoodusername]

If TB-3 can take-off from and land to Anadolu, navy will take it. If it can't navy won't. TB-3 is funded by Baykar's own pocket. More important thing is Anadolu is sailing naked. We don't have any helicopters on-board. I think naval helicopters are more important than flying a drone, currently.

 

[Oublious]

what does X47B have to do with TB3. You can have the test results from the counterpart of TB3

Naked:Take-off 152 m

Surveillance mode: 300 m take-off and 20 hours endurance

Armed ISR mode: Take-off 488 m with 12 anti-tank missiles
9 hours of endurance

From Land Take-Off = Full Payload Endurance 27 Hours

General Atomics Mojave

That not engineering data, you should go search a book what Selcuk Bayraktar have shared. It was 3 years ago, that was a book they are basing ther project on.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

If TB-3 can take-off from and land to Anadolu, navy will take it. If it can't navy won't. TB-3 is funded by Baykar's own pocket. More important thing is Anadolu is sailing naked. We don't have any helicopters on-board. I think naval helicopters are more important than flying a drone, currently.

9 Bell AH-1 SuperCobra of Turkish army trasfered to Navy Aslo during navy drills there were blackhawks and cougars in Anadolu

 

[somegoodusername]

9 Bell AH-1 SuperCobra of Turkish army trasfered to Navy Aslo during navy drills there were blackhawks and cougars in Anadolu

M48 of the seas

We need 2020 model, heavy naval helicopters.

 

[BaburKhan]

M48 of the seas

We need 2020 model, heavy naval helicopters.

Turkey was allready interested in this Model, but the US wanted not to deliver the Helicopter under the Condition that a turkish Mission Computer will be used.

 

[OPTIMUS]

Irrelevant and ad hominem. TB3 will EASILY take off from the deck of TCG Anadolu with a full combat load of 1450kg, the land variant of TB3 has an MTOW of 1600kg.

you painfully confuse the payload and combatload.

As I have already said, on the open sea on a flight deck all others operate what they have measured on land. Think ,....everything moves at sea but everything.... The ramp angles too.... On land you have your 12° angle but on the high seas in a second 15° or 6°.... Go on a ship and stay there for a week.

keep watch on deck over bridge for an hour, then look at the mirror. You will no longer recognize yourself without protection.

Suppose for TB3 you need 6kg of paint for painting on land. At sea, you may need 15 kg. Everything is different, everything else.

 

[Iskander]

you painfully confuse the payload and combatload.

As I have already said, on the open sea on a flight deck all others operate what they have measured on land. Think ,....everything moves at sea but everything.... The ramp angles too.... On land you have your 12° angle but on the high seas in a second 15° or 6°.... Go on a ship and stay there for a week.

keep watch on deck over bridge for an hour, then look at the mirror. You will no longer recognize yourself without protection.

Suppose for TB3 you need 6kg of paint for painting on land. At sea, you may need 15 kg. Everything is different, everything else.

If Baykar decided to test the TB3 on deck, then on the ground it has already passed all the necessary tests. There is no other way. After all, if he fails, he may fall overboard.
Naturally, TB3 will take off for the first time with a minimum amount of fuel and without weapons.
All “angles and degrees” have already been calculated and recalculated hundreds of times.
Where do you get so much pessimism?!

 

[OPTIMUS]

If Baykar decided to test the TB3 on deck, then on the ground it has already passed all the necessary tests. There is no other way. After all, if he fails, he may fall overboard.
Naturally, TB3 will take off for the first time with a minimum amount of fuel and without weapons.
All “angles and degrees” have already been calculated and recalculated hundreds of times.
Where do you get so much pessimism?!

I see that you should first know a few terms:

TOW = Take-off weight
MTOW = Maximum Take-off weight
PL = Payload
FOB = Fuel on Board
OEW = Operating Empty Weight
ZFW = Zero Fuel Weight
MZFW = Maximum Zero Fuel Weight

look easily :

OEW + PL +FOB = TOW

ZFW + FOB = TOW

MZFW - OEW = PL

ZWF must not be higher than MZFW before flight.
TOW must not be higher than MTOW before flight.

sorry very roughly so that everyone understands....


BAYKAR has measured and evaluated all its data on land. But data taken at sea will result in a new hull and wing design
and new landing gear, and other tires with different inflation dates.
If BAYKAR does not do this, then there is no operational safety.

It is also quite possible that BAYKAR does not think about landing ANADOLU. They see TB3 only as ammunition. Launch from the ship, landing on land. TB3s are then always added by logistics as building kits on the ship. Such construction kits will be always present on the ship???

TB3 would be able to start either way, with tricks for Turkish people. The thing will never be able to land on ANADOLU.

 

[uçuyorum]

I see that you should first know a few terms:

TOW = Take-off weight
MTOW = Maximum Take-off weight
PL = Payload
FOB = Fuel on Board
OEW = Operating Empty Weight
ZFW = Zero Fuel Weight
MZFW = Maximum Zero Fuel Weight

look easily :

View attachment 70578

OEW + PL +FOB = TOW

ZFW + FOB = TOW

MZFW - OEW = PL

ZWF must not be higher than MZFW before flight.
TOW must not be higher than MTOW before flight.

sorry very roughly so that everyone understands....


BAYKAR has measured and evaluated all its data on land. But data taken at sea will result in a new hull and wing design
and new landing gear, and other tires with different inflation dates.
If BAYKAR does not do this, then there is no operational safety.

It is also quite possible that BAYKAR does not think about landing ANADOLU. They see TB3 only as ammunition. Launch from the ship, landing on land. TB3s are then always added by logistics as building kits on the ship. Such construction kits will be always present on the ship???

TB3 would be able to start either way, with tricks for Turkish people. The thing will never be able to land on ANADOLU.

WW2 aircraft carriers were able to operate prop airplanes with relatively short decks like anadolu and no angled landing strip, in fact some of the older carriers, essex short version I think? Were converted to helicopter carriers after arrival of jets. I don't see why TB3 can't do it

 

[Anmdt]

WW2 aircraft carriers were able to operate prop airplanes with relatively short decks like anadolu and no angled landing strip, in fact some of the older carriers, essex short version I think? Were converted to helicopter carriers after arrival of jets. I don't see why TB3 can't do it

Before all those technical aspects i am wondering how TB3 body parts and electronics will welcome corrosive and humid sea conditions.

It was also logical for Baykar to make 2-3 GTU (or STU) and let it roam in the hangar, but they skipped it somehow. Possibly they will improve the product after delivery of the ED batch.

 

[neosinan]

I can provide you with test results from others.

If you are making such claims, Please release your own Finite element simulation of TB3 and release what kind of assumptions you made with these analysis. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So Without these kind of solid data, We will take Everything you spew as BS. That is until you show your simulation numbers. Then We can start talking.

 

[OPTIMUS]

ANADOLU in the broad sense a STOBAR ship.

In order to be able to see evidence, we need to use your knowledge and assess requirements. That we guide you to the highest possible result.

First, have you ever seen a fully loaded MIG 29K or Shenjang J-15 take off from carrier ships. No, they can't show it.

secondly, in order for a TB3 to be able to take off from ANADOLU, ship must reach its maximum speed.(in the best case 30kn) But ANADOLU can only 21kn. Against wind less then 21kn. But ANADOLU has to turn against the wind for TB3 to take off .
And how long will it take to reach this speed against the wind. How long could the ship maintain this speed? Or in order for a few TB3s to take off from ANADOLU, the ship has to give up on its operating life?

beautiful dreams, but the sun always rises.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

ANADOLU in the broad sense a STOBAR ship.

In order to be able to see evidence, we need to use your knowledge and assess requirements. That we guide you to the highest possible result.

First, have you ever seen a fully loaded MIG 29K or Shenjang J-15 take off from carrier ships. No, they can't show it.

secondly, in order for a TB3 to be able to take off from ANADOLU, ship must reach its maximum speed.(in the best case 30kn) But ANADOLU can only 21kn. Against wind less then 21kn. But ANADOLU has to turn against the wind for TB3 to take off .
And how long will it take to reach this speed against the wind. How long could the ship maintain this speed? Or in order for a few TB3s to take off from ANADOLU, the ship has to give up on its operating life?

beautiful dreams, but the sun always rises.

I don't want to engage, bro, but the minute that TB-3 takes off from Anadolu, I'd like you to come forward and apologize, and also you maintain the right to boast and rub it in everybody's face if it fails. Deal?

 

[somegoodusername]

Even if the TB-3 manages to take off and land on Anadolu, it will still be underpowered compared to the Mojave UAV. We need much more powerful turboprop engines.

 

[Yasar_TR]

TCG Anadolu is essentially and primarily an amphibious assault ship.
It can achieve it’s intended potential, without UAVs or UCAVs. It just needs navalised helicopters. It will also need, Unmanned Sea Vessels to improve its combat capabilities, now that we have them available.
If we can ever get our hands on a dozen f35Bs then it will jump to a totally different level. But that is another scenario.

Having TB3 operate from it’s deck will certainly make it even more capable and potent than what it already is today.

Bayraktar as a company and Selcuk Bayraktar as it’s owner, have got too much riding on this TB3 project to let it falter. He has already mentioned that on computer simulations they can land and take off with a TB3. So let the guy prove his words.
As per my previous posts on the matter, TB3 should have no difficulty in taking off from TCG Anadolu. It has a powerful engine. It has long enough wings to provide more lift. How much of the full payload it has to sacrifice, should be known to Baykar before they start the sea trials. But all will be tweaked further once sea trials start when they have to negotiate real life sea state conditions. One thing that TB3 has on it’s side, is the fact that it will have approximately 20+ knots extra take off speed due to Anadolu’ s own speed.
Problem is in the landing; and it is in two folds: First of all it has to stop within a 150m distance. Secondly it has to somehow prevent itself from damaging that big lift at the back of the ship.
There are some “mobile aircraft arresting systems” (MAAS) like the ones Curtis Wright manufacture, that can be of some use, not just for TB3 but for KE too; if their use on a sea platform is even at all possible, especially for stopping a 1.5 ton UCAV.

Curtiss-Wright EMS - Arresting Systems / ESCO - Mobile Arresting Systems

www.cw-ems.com

At the end of the day, proof of the pudding is in the eating. Sea trials are starting. We will shortly see if Selcuk Bayraktar’s statement was true or not.

 

[Iskander]

I see that you should first know a few terms:

TOW = Take-off weight
MTOW = Maximum Take-off weight
PL = Payload
FOB = Fuel on Board
OEW = Operating Empty Weight
ZFW = Zero Fuel Weight
MZFW = Maximum Zero Fuel Weight

look easily :

View attachment 70578

OEW + PL +FOB = TOW

ZFW + FOB = TOW

MZFW - OEW = PL

ZWF must not be higher than MZFW before flight.
TOW must not be higher than MTOW before flight.

sorry very roughly so that everyone understands....


BAYKAR has measured and evaluated all its data on land. But data taken at sea will result in a new hull and wing design
and new landing gear, and other tires with different inflation dates.
If BAYKAR does not do this, then there is no operational safety.

It is also quite possible that BAYKAR does not think about landing ANADOLU. They see TB3 only as ammunition. Launch from the ship, landing on land. TB3s are then always added by logistics as building kits on the ship. Such construction kits will be always present on the ship???

TB3 would be able to start either way, with tricks for Turkish people. The thing will never be able to land on ANADOLU.

You are right, I have problems with the English language and especially with technical terms. And in general, I am not an aviation specialist.
Maybe that's why everything seems easier to me
Why did you decide that Bayraktar did not provide for TB3 to land on the deck? Strange.
Imagine that somewhere in the Indian Ocean TB3 takes off from the deck and after bombing, say, Australia or India
And so poor TB3 flies back to Turkey, covering... 10,000 km.
Can you imagine it?
I can't do this. Yes, this is impossible. Moreover, it is simply absurd.
So obviously, knowing technical aviation terms won't help you much

On TB3 the chassis is reinforced. The wings are 2 meters longer than those of the TB2, and the engine is more powerful.
What else don't you like?
Well, yes, after many takeoffs and landings (sorry ) on deck, some changes will probably have to be made.
But the fact that it will take off from the deck with the prescribed maximum load and return there - there cannot be two opinions on this matter.

 

[Anmdt]

TCG Anadolu is essentially and primarily an amphibious assault ship.
It can achieve it’s intended potential potential, without UAVs or UCAVs. It just needs navalised helicopters. It will also need, Unmanned Sea Vessels to improve its combat capabilities, now that we have them available.
If we can ever get our hands on a dozen f35Bs then it will jump to a totally different level. But that is another scenario.

Having TB3 operate from it’s deck will certainly make it even more capable and potent than what it already is today.

Bayraktar as a company and Selcuk Bayraktar as it’s owner, has got too much riding on this TB3 project to let it falter. He has already mentioned that on computer simulations they can land and take off with a TB3. So let the guy prove his words.
As per my previous posts on the matter, TB3 should have no difficulty in taking off from TCG Anadolu. It has a powerful engine. It has long enough wings to provide more lift. How much of the full payload it has to sacrifice, should be known to Baykar before they start the sea trials. But all will be tweaked further once sea trials start when they have to negotiate real life sea state conditions. One thing that TB3 has on it’s side, is the fact that it will have approximately 20+ knots extra take off speed due to Anadolu’ s own speed.
Problem is in the landing; and it is in two folds: First of all it has to stop within a 150m distance. Secondly it has to somehow prevent itself from damaging that big lift at the back of the ship.
There are some “mobile aircraft arresting systems” (MAAS) like the ones Curtis Wright manufacture, that can be of some use, not just for TB3 but for KE too; if their use on a sea platform is even at all possible, especially for stopping a 1.5 ton UCAV.

Curtiss-Wright EMS - Arresting Systems / ESCO - Mobile Arresting Systems

www.cw-ems.com

At the end of the day, proof of the pudding is in the eating. Sea trials are starting. We will shortly see if Selcuk Bayraktar’s statement was true or not.

There is a lot to improve on the go, we have no chance or oppurtunity to get an input from trained pilots or AC operator technicians.

Evidently the first protype has been through excessive stress levels (mechanically speaking) during the first ski-jump trials. They should be examining wings and patching remakes on PT-3/4. We have mininum of years before we can operate TB-3 carefree on Anadolu as we operate TB2, Anka, Akıncı on Land.

GA-ASI has a strong lead in here, it is not even a competition in my terms, all they need to do prove the CONOPS and integration. Those people have access to the resources that we may possibly may access versions as old as dating back to WWII or pre WWII.

Let's accept a fact guys, USN's annual carrier based flight time and landing - take off counts may surpass of what NATO do, in sum. From tip to toe, this provides an unmatching input, feedback and resources through people on field and through documentation.

Partly speaking based on real life experiences, some informatio is invaluable. That's why Baykar makes a new prototype to each iteration and maybe the one that goes actual ship based tests / qualification tests will be PT-4 or 5. Baykar does not worry to burn cash here since this project is promising, and like Mojave will be marketed to the countries who might be interested in unpaved runway operations.