Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[ardezzo]

I think it would be nice if NATO would broker a deal where both Greece and Turkey donate a fixed numbr of Leo 2A4s, something like 10 tanks each. This way, the power balance between the two is not affected, while more Leos are sent to Ukraine, especially since both Greece and Turkey are among the biggest operators of Leo 2 tanks.

Turkiye doesn't have the leisure to donate Leo 2.
Western probably could persuade Turk part way with older tanks, like M48 or Leo 1.
But that too won't happen until Significant amount Altay enter service in which could put their M60 into reserve.

And their relationship with German made it even worse.

 

[UkroTurk]

Dugin's directive: The main mistakes of the special operation

This year of war has destroyed many illusions that all sides of the conflict had.

Only a year later, Moscow finally realized that this was not an NWO, but a full-fledged war.

However, everything went wrong. After the first real successes, certain miscalculations in the strategic planning of the entire operation made themselves felt. The completely non-military mood of the army, the elite and society, which were not ready for a serious confrontation, had an effect - neither with the Ukrainian regime, nor even with the collective West. The offensive stalled, running into desperate and furious resistance from the enemy, who received unprecedented support from the NATO military machine. Probably, the Kremlin did not take into account either the psychological readiness of the Ukrainian Nazis to fight to the last Ukrainian, or the scale of Western military assistance.

Директива Дугина: Главные ошибки спецоперации

Glory to Ukraine

 

[fire starter]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1629109236490960896

 

[Relic]

I think it would be nice if NATO would broker a deal where both Greece and Turkey donate a fixed numbr of Leo 2A4s, something like 10 tanks each. This way, the power balance between the two is not affected, while more Leos are sent to Ukraine, especially since both Greece and Turkey are among the biggest operators of Leo 2 tanks.

I'd love to see both Turkey and Greece come to an understanding and send a few Leo 2's each. I'm with you that 10 each would be great. Alternatively, Cyprus has been vocal in the fact that they have about 80 T-80U's that they would like to upgrade. Ukraine already uses the T-80 and procuring more would be an excellent way of backfilling losses from some of Ukraine's existing tank brigades. A Greek effort to send some Leo 2's to Cyprus could probably get Ukraine T-80's at a 2 to 1 exchange rate. Donating 20 Leo 2s to Cyprus would be an excellent way to get 40 T-80's for Ukraine. The Greeks could then backfill their own Leopard 2's by buying surplus ones from across Europe and restoring them. Hell, Spain will sell them 20 replacements if Greece is willing to wait a year while they're upgraded and brought back into serviceability....

The point is that there are a number of ways to get Ukraine more MBTs and IFVs. There simply has to be the political will to make these things happen.

 

[contricusc]

rather than pursue another MBT, UA should get more bradleys in huge number...bradleys 30 mm auto canon more flexible againts human wave and poor protected thin can russian tanks...

I agree that more Bradleys would be very useful, but I was talking about the MBTs because it was some sort of a reply to Relic’s post about the promised equipment and what is still needed, and according to his numbers both more MBTs and IFVs are needed.

So I think they need both more Bradelys and more Leos.

 

[Relic]

I agree that more Bradleys would be very useful, but I was talking about the MBTs because it was some sort of a reply to Relic’s post about the promised equipment and what is still needed, and according to his numbers both more MBTs and IFVs are needed.

So I think they need both more Bradelys and more Leos.

113 additional Bradley 2ODS (USA)
40 additional Marder IFV (Germany)
25 additional more AMX10-P (France)
50 Warrior IFV (Britain)
50 LAV 6.0 IFV (Canada)

Those 275+ additional IFVs would go a long friggen way in equipping 3 more armored brigades and none of those countries would have their fighting forces significantly impacted by donating them.

 

[GoatsMilk]

to be honest we could have donated some bigger drones maybe some longer range rocket artillery too.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1630263910149357572

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1630265416256831489

 

[Heartbang]

I think it would be nice if NATO would broker a deal where both Greece and Turkey donate a fixed numbr of Leo 2A4s, something like 10 tanks each. This way, the power balance between the two is not affected, while more Leos are sent to Ukraine, especially since both Greece and Turkey are among the biggest operators of Leo 2 tanks.

I'd love to see both Turkey and Greece come to an understanding and send a few Leo 2's each. I'm with you that 10 each would be great. Alternatively, Cyprus has been vocal in the fact that they have about 80 T-80U's that they would like to upgrade. Ukraine already uses the T-80 and procuring more would be an excellent way of backfilling losses from some of Ukraine's existing tank brigades. A Greek effort to send some Leo 2's to Cyprus could probably get Ukraine T-80's at a 2 to 1 exchange rate. Donating 20 Leo 2s to Cyprus would be an excellent way to get 40 T-80's for Ukraine. The Greeks could then backfill their own Leopard 2's by buying surplus ones from across Europe and restoring them. Hell, Spain will sell them 20 replacements if Greece is willing to wait a year while they're upgraded and brought back into serviceability....

The point is that there are a number of ways to get Ukraine more MBTs and IFVs. There simply has to be the political will to make these things happen.

Turks won't jeopardize their neutral stance by sending tanks to Ukraine. Y'all living in fantasies.

 

[blackjack]

1st post of today.

 

[Xenon54]

Turks won't jeopardize their neutral stance by sending tanks to Ukraine. Y'all living in fantasies.

I agree, what benefit does Turkey have by helping the west currently? The US in particular is not very friendly either so its better for Turkey to keep a balance, helping to put a nail in Russian coffin will only be worse in the long run for Turkish interests.

 

[blackjack]

 

[blackjack]

last post of today.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1630155247485157376

 

[contricusc]

I agree, what benefit does Turkey have by helping the west currently? The US in particular is not very friendly either so its better for Turkey to keep a balance, helping to put a nail in Russian coffin will only be worse in the long run for Turkish interests.

Turks won't jeopardize their neutral stance by sending tanks to Ukraine. Y'all living in fantasies.

It is exactly this neutral stance that is causing friction with the West. If NATO can’t count on Turkey when dealing with Russia, why would it invest much resources and why it should trust Turkey?

The war in Ukraine was a great chance for Turkey to mend its relations with Europe and the US. If Turkey would join the coalition of countries sending heavy equipment to Ukraine, it would send a strong message, that Turkey is an ally of the West, not a neutral power.

But the current stance of neutrality only reinforces the idea many people in Europe have that Turkey is not a reliable ally.

“helping to put a nail in Russian coffin will only be worse in the long run for Turkish interests.”

It is exactly this kind of thinking that make people in Europe weary about what Turkey sees as its long term interests.

 

[GoatsMilk]

I agree, what benefit does Turkey have by helping the west currently? The US in particular is not very friendly either so its better for Turkey to keep a balance, helping to put a nail in Russian coffin will only be worse in the long run for Turkish interests.

We are not neutral just like Russia isnt neutral in syria, azerbaijan or libya. I don't look at the Ukrainian/Russian conflict from a western american lens when it concerns Turkiye. I look at it from a 1000 year Turkish/Russian relation perspective.

Its totally in our interests to see Russia brought down to a position that they dare not to even open their mouths against us.

America and Russia will always work together against us. It doesn't matter if they are in a full blown war against each other, against us they will be together. We see this in Syria. We are in a quagmire in Syria because both Russia and the USA are allied against us protecting a warlord and pkk terrorists. America is a super power, thats not going to end anytime soon, but Russia is getting rekt in Ukraine, that loosens their power and influence in syria against us.

Its in our interests that Russia loses this and loses it big. I said it before that morally its best the war ends sooner rather then later, no need for the Ukrainian people to suffer this terror, but at the same time every day it drags out Russia becomes weaker.

We want to see a day where Russia begs us for help instead of bombing our troops and advertising it on TV to try and humiliate us. Its beautiful seeing Russia even having to buy shitty drones from iran, how far they have sunk over this criminal invasion is good to see.

On a side note Ukraine has been good to us and looking forward can be a great friendly nation, Russia will never be a friendly nation to us. Just look at how they treat their so called brothers.

If indeed Turkish rocket artillery was sent to Ukraine as Oryx claims, that tells you 100% that the strategists of the Turkish republic want the same things that i have mentioned here.

 

[Baryshx]

It is exactly this neutral stance that is causing friction with the West. If NATO can’t count on Turkey when dealing with Russia, why would it invest much resources and why it should trust Turkey?

The war in Ukraine was a great chance for Turkey to mend its relations with Europe and the US. If Turkey would join the coalition of countries sending heavy equipment to Ukraine, it would send a strong message, that Turkey is an ally of the West, not a neutral power.

But the current stance of neutrality only reinforces the idea many people in Europe have that Turkey is not a reliable ally.

“helping to put a nail in Russian coffin will only be worse in the long run for Turkish interests.”

It is exactly this kind of thinking that make people in Europe weary about what Turkey sees as its long term interests.

NATO does not transfer resources to Turkiye. Most of them even impose embargoes. Also, the friction with the US and Europe has nothing to do with the Russian-Ukrainian war.

Funny European and American arguments.

Isolate Turkiye economically, militarily and politically and then ask for help. As usual, they put Turkiye forward and expect sacrifices from us. Go ask from Germany and France.

 

[Heartbang]

It is exactly this neutral stance that is causing friction with the West. If NATO can’t count on Turkey when dealing with Russia, why would it invest much resources and why it should trust Turkey?

The "friction" with the west was there long before the Ukraine war. Turkiye can't count on a collective defence pact who's been threatening its sovereignty on the down low.
If they are willing to fuck around, they mustn't cry like a silly baby when they find out.

 

[Ecderha]

One year into putin’s 3-day 'Special Military Operation’.
His army has lost 9425 main battle tanks, of which 5995 were destroyed, 270 damaged, 375 abandoned and a total of 2786 captured-making RU the #1 supplier of military vehicles to Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1630249725172776960

 

[Ecderha]

They say that Prigozhin dropped that kompromat.
Lt. Gen Aleksandr Matovnikov, Deputy Commander-in-Chief of russian land forces and “Hero of russia”. That are the likes leading the russian army.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1630276962034778114

 

[GoatsMilk]

NATO does not transfer resources to Turkiye. Most of them even impose embargoes. Also, the friction with the US and Europe has nothing to do with the Russian-Ukrainian war.

Funny European and American arguments.

Isolate Turkiye economically, militarily and politically and then ask for help. As usual, they put Turkiye forward and expect sacrifices from us. Go ask from Germany and France.

The common European doesnt really know the games that are played against Turkiye. In england the media makes out that Europe gives Turkiye everything meanwhile we play double faced games making us look sleazy and disgraceful. For example the same media that shows Sweden as heroic for wanting to join NATO at the last minute once they realised their own arse was on the line and not before then, Turkiye which was with Ukraine before the war even started during the days when most of the world was terrified of Russia is shown as the unreliable two faced ally that helps Putin directly. The nation that was arming Ukraine pre invasion while the USA, France and Germany were threatening us not to.

They are not told about the sanctions, the embargoes, the two faced attitude to our EU application. The cyprus situation where Turks are entirely penalised and discriminated against, while the greek Cypriots are Russia's closest ally with the EU and treated like a spoiled child. Not to mention all the PKK support and eastern med games against us.

The problem isnt the common european, the real problem is that us Turks have made no efforts to raise our voices within Europe to put our case out there.

The majority of non-Turk posters on this forum are the tiny minority, these people seem to have some clue as to Turkiye, her history and her politics. The grand majority of Europeans only know what the media shows them which is next to never good.

From our side erdogan made it exceptionally easy for the western media to shit on us though, he's the worst thing that could have happened to Turkiye from a public PR perspective.