Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[Nilgiri]

A possible US presidential candidate called the war in Ukraine a "territorial dispute"

View attachment 54855

DeSantis may be nominated as a presidential candidate instead of Trump

In his statement, DeSantis also criticized other Republicans committed to helping Ukraine.


The favorite of the Republican Party, a possible US presidential candidate in the 2024 elections, Ron DeSantis, rolled out a whole portion of anti-Ukrainian statements.

In an interview with ardent Ukrainophobe, Fox News host Tucker Carlson, who has repeatedly insulted Zelensky and Ukrainians, DeSantis called the war in Ukraine a "territorial dispute."

In his opinion, military assistance in securing the borders of European countries is not in the interests of the United States, the New York Times quotes the words of a top Republican.

Ron DeSantis Says Protecting Ukraine Is Not a Key U.S. Interest (Published 2023)

The Florida governor, on Tucker Carlson’s Fox News show, broke with Republicans to attack President Biden’s foreign policy and align more closely with Donald Trump as he weighs a presidential bid.

www.nytimes.com

US military assistance in the war of Ukraine against Russia - the mood of the Americans

According to October opinion polls, 70% of Americans (both Republicans and Democrats) were still in favor of supporting Ukraine. The White House in its statements constantly emphasizes that the United States will support the resistance of the Ukrainians "for as long as it takes."

Republicans sympathizing with Trump began to put spokes in the wheels. Under the guise of demands for control over the sent weapons, the Trumpists are slowing down the allocation of new aid packages to Ukraine.

Moreover, Trump himself made sharp attacks against the financing of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and in his last speech he even stated that he would give Putin the opportunity to seize "parts of Ukraine."

Desantis clarifies on this from 32.30 - 37.30 :

 

[Gary]

People who kept on dreaming that countries will fight long after a nuclear strike should look back at Japan. I don't think there's yet a more fanatical and ready to sacrifice people than the Japanese in WW2. Just 2 nuclear bomb is enough to force Japan into surrender.

 

[GoatsMilk]

No offense but you've completely lost your marbles.

If Ukraine capitulates what will follow will be worse then nuclear strike.

The Russians will sweep the entire nation, within the first 6 months hundreds of thousands of patriotic/nationalist Ukrainians will be rounded up and executed. That means your father, your brothers or you sons could be taken away and murdered.

Hundreds of thousands of children maybe even millions will be abducted and sent into Russia where their will identities will be removed and they will be brainwashed to love Russia and in the future used as cannon fodder for the Russian empire.

While all this happening the whole sale rape of the women will take place, peoples mothers, their wives, their sisters and their daughters will be raped in front of them.

A nation wide process to eliminate the Ukrainian identity and history will take place, Ukraine will cease to exist and potentially may be turned into a complete non-entity the way Russia turned so many Muslims into. Maybe Ukraine will never surface again, the same way it took them a hundred years to completely erase the Crimean Khanate.

So if your happy watching your mothers, wives and daughters get raped in front of you by russian shitheads, then by all means capitulate. I hope the common Turk in Turkiye doesnt have this mindset, because all that seperates Turkiye from this same hell i just mentioned is one nuclear strike.

The Ukrainians won't capitulate and allow the Russians to erase this to their entire race. And lets be honest anyone would capitulate and accept this outcome is no man.

Its quite right to say if Russia stops killing the war ends, if Ukraine stops fighting Ukraine ceases to exist. These Russians are pure evil.

 

[ardezzo]

People who kept on dreaming that countries will fight long after a nuclear strike should look back at Japan. I don't think there's yet a more fanatical and ready to sacrifice people than the Japanese in WW2. Just 2 nuclear bomb is enough to force Japan into surrender.

Japan want to surrender even without nukes

 

[MaciekRS]

People who kept on dreaming that countries will fight long after a nuclear strike should look back at Japan. I don't think there's yet a more fanatical and ready to sacrifice people than the Japanese in WW2. Just 2 nuclear bomb is enough to force Japan into surrender.

Japan lost the war and just needed a reason to finish it.
I dont think there is a SINGLE country who would capitulate while FIGHTING the war just because of some bombs. Its not in human nature to surrender when there is hope for a win.
And remember that right now nuclear bomb is nothing special. Same effects you can achieve with conventional weapons.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Japan lost the war and just needed a reason to finish it.
I dont think there is a SINGLE country who would capitulate while FIGHTING the war just because of some bombs. Its not in human nature to surrender when there is hope for a win.
And remember that right now nuclear bomb is nothing special. Same effects you can achieve with conventional weapons.

Its what comes after thats important. If the Japanese knew surrendering meant that their entire cultural identity, independance and history would be completely erased by the americans, they wouldn't have surrendered either.

And what comes after a Russian occupation of Ukraine is very different to what came after the american conquest of Japan.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Japan want to surrender even without nukes

yeah in general before the nukes the Japanese were considering to surrender, they were done as a fighting force. Nothing was going to stop america conquering that nation and their was no outside powers that could help sustain a war effort for Japan the same way nations are helping Ukraine too.

The nuance is highly important when we try to come away with conclusions.

 

[Gary]

Japan want to surrender even without nukes

Nope, actually in traditional Japanese way of the time, they're planning to go down in fury. The Okinawa campaign is a just a glimpse of what the Japanese is planning to do on even a larger scale.

It was the realization that their cities could be picked up one by one with ease and not being able to at least try to hit back that finally convince them to surrender.

Its what comes after thats important. If the Japanese knew surrendering meant that their entire cultural identity, independance and history would be completely erased by the americans, they wouldn't have surrendered either.

And what comes after a Russian occupation of Ukraine is very different to what came after the american conquest of Japan.

The Japanese propaganda to its own population wrt the Americans is no different than the portrayal of Russia today, a barbaric enemy that is hell bent to subjugate you and erase whatever you deem precious.

2 nuclear bombs later....

I dont think there is a SINGLE country who would capitulate while FIGHTING the war just because of some bombs. Its not in human nature to surrender when there is hope for a win.

Japan did. And its not part of the Japanese psyche at the time to even utter the word surrender.

In fact Ukraine "courage" is not even 1/10th of the suicidal courage that the Japanese showed during the war.

And remember that right now nuclear bomb is nothing special. Same effects you can achieve with conventional weapons.

not even the FOAB is close to the "low yield" nuclear bomb

FOAB is at 44T equivalent of TNT
Low yield nuke bomb is at 10KT equivalent of TNT

In fact Russia could theoretically solve their problem of over conserving their jet bomber fleet by sending one or two into a one way mission to bomb heavily defended cities.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Nope, actually in traditional Japanese way of the time, they're planning to go down in fury. The Okinawa campaign is a just a glimpse of what the Japanese is planning to do on even a larger scale.

It was the realization that their cities could be picked up one by one with ease and not being able to at least try to hit back that finally convince them to surrender.


The Japanese propaganda to its own population wrt the Americans is no different than to portrayal of Russia today, a barbaric enemy that is hell bent to subjugate you and erase whatever you deem precious.

2 nuclear bombs later....

Japan did. And its not part of the Japanese psyche at the time to even utter the word surrender.

In fact Ukraine "courage" is not even 1/10th of the suicidal courage that the Japanese showed during the war.

not even the FOAB is close to the "low yield" nuclear bomb

FOAB is at 44T equivalent of TNT
Low yield nuke bomb is at 10KT equivalent of TNT

In fact Russia could theoretically solve their problem of over conserving their jet bomber fleet by sending one or two into a one way mission to bomb heavily defended cities.

respectfully disagree. I don't see Ukraine surrendering after a nuclear strike.

secondly the atom bomb cemented americas positions as the number one power. Russians dropping nukes on Ukraine will not cement her position it will only elevate global hostilities and increase support for Ukraine.

Their really not the same thing Americans doing to Japan and Russians doing to Ukraine.

 

[chibiyabi]

People who kept on dreaming that countries will fight long after a nuclear strike should look back at Japan. I don't think there's yet a more fanatical and ready to sacrifice people than the Japanese in WW2. Just 2 nuclear bomb is enough to force Japan into surrender.

can you imagine, if japan also had nuclear weapons that time. you have nuclear weapons not only to use it, but as bargaining power, its balancing the power.

 

[Gary]

secondly the atom bomb cemented americas positions as the number one power. Russians dropping nukes on Ukraine will not cement her position it will only elevate global hostilities and increase support for Ukraine.

The very reason why Russia would use nuke is the fact that increased support for Ukraine has and will eradicate their conventional superiority in the first place...hence the (likely) use of nuclear bombs.

Their really not the same thing Americans doing to Japan and Russians doing to Ukraine.

But the effect will be the very same.

 

[GoatsMilk]

The very reason why Russia would use nuke is the fact that increased support for Ukraine has and will eradicate their conventional superiority in the first place...hence the (likely) use of nuclear bombs.

But the effect will be the very same.

I dont think so. Using nuclear weapons on Ukraine will set a chain reaction off that geopolitically will cost Russia in the long term.

For starters dropping a nuke on Ukraine will not end the war. Ukraine has the material backing of much of the west and as well as other nations of the world. Japan was done in world war 2 and no great powers were coming to their material aid. Surrender was the better option for the japanese and they took it with open arms, surrender for the Ukrainians is not the better option.

Dropping a nuke will lead to further isolation, it will lead to nations supporting Ukraine harder, but it will also lead to most nations bordering Russia acquiring their own nuclear arsenal to counter the russian threat.

I see no positive angle for Russia using a nuke on Ukraine. Its a losing proposition and its for good reason after a year of complete failure in Ukraine they have not used one. And keep in mind Russia is one of the most morally bankrupt nations on earth, they have not used nuclear weapons out of the goodness of their character, they also understand that it comes with big big repercussions.

Morally speaking i would wish they never do such a thing, but geopolitically speaking if they did ever do such a thing well its good business for most nations since it will escalate the downfall of Russia quicker.

 

[Kathirz]

respectfully disagree. I don't see Ukraine surrendering after a nuclear strike.

secondly the atom bomb cemented americas positions as the number one power. Russians dropping nukes on Ukraine will not cement her position it will only elevate global hostilities and increase support for Ukraine.

Their really not the same thing Americans doing to Japan and Russians doing to Ukraine.

Agree 100%.

What is not being commented here is, the first use of the nuclear bomb had a context of finishing a war/wars where their forerunners where imperialistic countries that invaded and occupied others lands.
The use of the nuclear weapon is always accompanied by a lot of diplomacy with allies and other countries. Is good to remember to good forists who doesn't have this context to read about Postdam conference to understand the diplomacy behind this:

Potsdam Declaration - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

-Russia just entered in war with Japan, and probably wanting to use it by themselves once they got it.
-China was invaded by Japan.
-Europe had been liberated with the help of USA and waiting for a Marshall plan.
-Japan is an island, so side radioactive effects would be much weaker for neighbors than in other parts in the world.

It's obvious that the action of dropping the bombs and the bad effects about the narrative were countered by the context and diplomacy.

After it the UN was founded and the permanent members of the security council are all Nuclear powers, intended to give some control/ruling to the hipothetical use of this new weapon. The result was no one use it more than in tests in 77 years.

So let an imperialistic country to launch any kind of nuclear weapon against a neighbor which had been invaded by them, the catastrophic consecuences for that country would be much worse than the resulting blast, just because it is setting a precedent where you can use a nuclear bomb in an offensive way, so it would let China in a bad position against USA having much less nuclear weapons, plunging the world into economic chaos and global trade, totally contrary to China's interests.

The teaser isn't in a Kubric movie, is here:

Some people speaks in a context were Russia is the only one having nuclear weapons, there are 9 countries with nuclear weapons, and the effects would be worldwide in several contexts. Use it in the battlefield today is nonsense, unless you had been invaded by others and you have the favor of the other world nations.

We are going to see more nuclear narratives once RU is running out of steam in Bakhmut, Vuhledar, Kreminha, etc... and April is coming. Let's keep calm.

 

[Ryder]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1638127105597743105

Serbs would choose the right side.

I dont blame them really.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Agree 100%.

What is not being commented here is, the first use of the nuclear bomb had a context of finishing a war/wars where their forerunners where imperialistic countries that invaded and occupied others lands.
The use of the nuclear weapon is always accompanied by a lot of diplomacy with allies and other countries. Is good to remember to good forists who doesn't have this context to read about Postdam conference to understand the diplomacy behind this:

Potsdam Declaration - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

-Russia just entered in war with Japan, and probably wanting to use it by themselves once they got it.
-China was invaded by Japan.
-Europe had been liberated with the help of USA and waiting for a Marshall plan.
-Japan is an island, so side radioactive effects would be much weaker for neighbors than in other parts in the world.

It's obvious that the action of dropping the bombs and the bad effects about the narrative were countered by the context and diplomacy.

After it the UN was founded and the permanent members of the security council are all Nuclear powers, intended to give some control/ruling to the hipothetical use of this new weapon. The result was no one use it more than in tests in 77 years.

So let an imperialistic country to launch any kind of nuclear weapon against a neighbor which had been invaded by them, the catastrophic consecuences for that country would be much worse than the resulting blast, just because it is setting a precedent where you can use a nuclear bomb in an offensive way, so it would let China in a bad position against USA having much less nuclear weapons, plunging the world into economic chaos and global trade, totally contrary to China's interests.

The teaser isn't in a Kubric movie, is here:

View attachment 55324

Some people speaks in a context were Russia is the only one having nuclear weapons, there are 9 countries with nuclear weapons, and the effects would be worldwide in several contexts. Use it in the battlefield today is nonsense, unless you had been invaded by others and you have the favor of the other world nations.

We are going to see more nuclear narratives once RU is running out of steam in Bakhmut, Vuhledar, Kreminha, etc... and April is coming. Let's keep calm.

For people to come to conclusion that nuclear strike on Ukraine could lead to capitulation is not unreasonable. But there is enough difference, enough nuance to anticipate that it not only would not lead to capitulation but it would only compound the disaster that is Ukraine for Russia further.

I'm of the opinion the dumbest thing Russia could do is hit Ukraine with a nuclear weapon, they do any of that and everything escalates against Russia. Considering how shit their performance is right now just dealing with Ukraine, they don't want much of the world to pile in after a nuclear strike. And i don't mean they are going to declare direct war against Russia, what will happen is things like more sanctions, russians being expelled from Europe, much more military support not only to Ukraine but any nation directly undertreat from Russia among other things.

And people forget the bigger picture, Ukraine was about Russia reinstating the Russian empire and rising to a position to be seen as an equal to the USA. Well not only is that all in the shitter with Russias reputation being reduced to dog shit, but the american world got bigger, her influence got stronger and so many nations have further moved towards the american axis. A nuclear strike on Ukraine is a massive gift to the american world order.

A great visual representation of this shift is all the nations sending their russian arms to Ukraine to be used to kill Russians only for said nations to replace that gear with american made weapons.

 

[Gary]

Dropping a nuke will lead to further isolation, it will lead to nations supporting Ukraine harder, but it will also lead to most nations bordering Russia acquiring their own nuclear arsenal to counter the russian threat.

I've mentioned this earlier...and this is just as big as a threat to the Western order than to Russia. Countries bordering Russia are many but only select countries has the means and sophistication into acquiring nuclear capability. These are the likes of Germany, Japan, Korea and clearly not central Asia or the Baltics.

And if ever these countries acquire nukes, the biggest loser is not Russia but the U.S (and the other allied nuclear power), simply put they no longer need the mutual defense commitment from the U.S, hence lesser and lesser U.S influence abroad.

A hypothetical nuclear Japan or Germany could in fact led this country into an independent power once more, no longer an American vassal state/allies. And that is actually more dangerous to America than Russia ever will.

I see no positive angle for Russia using a nuke on Ukraine.

Neither do I...at least not now.

 

[Dmitry]

On the night of March 24, Sumy district was shelled from Russian territory. The spokesman of the Air Force reported about 10 aerial bombs and drones of the "Shahed" type. Artillery shelling also continued at night. As of 9:30 a.m., there are two dead and 9 injured people in Bilopilja, Sumy region.

In the city of Vorozhba, there was shelling from multiple rocket launchers, a residential building and an outbuilding were damaged. One person was injured.

There was an air strike and a kamikaze drone strike in the village of Vyry of the Rychkiv community. There, the kindergarten and administration building were damaged, and the school was destroyed. The village of Richki was shelled with artillery. Private houses, an administrative building and a gymnasium building were damaged.

An airstrike was carried out on an agricultural company in Mykolaiv settlement community. Industrial facilities and agricultural machinery were damaged.

Bilopilja, Sumy region. Consequences of a night attack on video

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1639207001531076609

 

[UkroTurk]

People who kept on dreaming that countries will fight long after a nuclear strike should look back at Japan

Air raids on Japan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Why did The Japanese imperia surrender? Because of nuclear attack?

Do you think the USA nuked Japan due to Japan hadnt been defeated with the conventional war?

Until the nuclear attack Japanese had been agree surrender. The Japanese would make peace agreement with USSR and USA. They wanted USSR moderated peace agreement.

However USSR involved in the war and the
USA nuked Japan to keep USSR away.

@Nilgiri

Soviet–Japanese War - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Until the nuclear attack US bombers had destroyed civil and industrial infrastructure on territory as same as Nuclear weapons did.

The USA showed the world he was the mere mighty power in the world.

If Putin nuked Ukraine,he could not get away with this.

 

[UkroTurk]

On the night of March 24, Sumy district was shelled from Russian territory. The spokesman of the Air Force reported about 10 aerial bombs and drones of the "Shahed" type. Artillery shelling also continued at night. As of 9:30 a.m., there are two dead and 9 injured people in Bilopilja, Sumy region.

In the city of Vorozhba, there was shelling from multiple rocket launchers, a residential building and an outbuilding were damaged. One person was injured.

There was an air strike and a kamikaze drone strike in the village of Vyry of the Rychkiv community. There, the kindergarten and administration building were damaged, and the school was destroyed. The village of Richki was shelled with artillery. Private houses, an administrative building and a gymnasium building were damaged.

An airstrike was carried out on an agricultural company in Mykolaiv settlement community. Industrial facilities and agricultural machinery were damaged.

Bilopilja, Sumy region. Consequences of a night attack on video

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1639207001531076609

The Air Force of Ukraine reported that on the night of March 24, Russia attacked Ukraine with Shahed-136/131 drones and guided aerial bombs. Krivoy Rog of the Dnepropetrovsk region, as well as the Sumy region came under attack

As a result of the attack in the Sumy region, two people were killed, another 10 were injured.

It also became known that Russia attacked Krivoy Rog with six Shahed kamikaze drones, one of them was shot down by the fighters from the Vostok air command, there were no casualties or injuries.

Russian Su-35 fighters Launched 11 guided bombs and one Kh-31P missile at the Sumy region.

 

[Gary]

View attachment 55330

Air raids on Japan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Why did The Japanese imperia surrender? Because of nuclear attack?

Do you think the USA nuked Japan due to Japan hadnt been defeated with the conventional war?

The USA nuked Japan after it realized that Japan...in spite of the material losses upon their people, cities and industries refuses to yield. Okinawa just gave the Americans a glimpse of what will be the planned landings on Japan mainland.

The USA showed the world he was the mere mighty power in the world.

This stays for approximately 4 years. And then it levelled.

RDS-1 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If Putin nuked Ukraine,he could not get away with this.

Not him personally, Russia will be even more sanctioned but the country stays intact. No one will go for a nuclear exchange which no one can win for another country. Nobody is selfless enough to die.

Even during the Cold war French nukes are directed towards Germany just in case the Soviets manage to penetrate the Fulda gap. Shows just how selfish people are when it comes to their own security.