Air-Force What is the probability of ordering Eurofighter aircraft with Meteor for TurAF?

[AzeriTank]

the only problem would be, Turkey would never accept to purchase those jets as is.. Turkey always want to have all controls, which means, for Turkey to be able to use it, they need to write couple million codes, which i am not sure if Turkey would like to do it for 30-40 jets... it doesnt worth it. instead, you could get Hurjet and Goksungur.. as Turkey produce its own air to air missiles, it has huge advantage.. once you use hit and run + new coming air deffense missiles, i think its enough.. i would rather spend that money on air deffense missiles, make production facility to produce thousands of them, because so many countries would love to get them... As since last year nobody trust Russian area deffence missiles, and on the other hand US and EU versions are sooo expensive, Romania spent almost 10 billion for couple hundred missiles, Turkey can sell those like crazyyyy. so many countries need it... another advantage, it doesnt require additional cost, you can just keep it in the inventory and use computers to train soldiers, but those jets require pilots training, flight hours and so on... the only reason i would change my mind if those Eurofighter can fly from Anadolu, that would be a totally different story..

 

[dBSPL]

If i remember correctly, this issue has been on the agenda for a long time and has been discussed from time to time in defense circles. The partnership talks at the beginning of the project was a much older story but also it was reflected in some open sources in the past years that the possibility of such a purchase in recent news was not brand new aircraft but a second hand purchase from the Royal Airforce inventory.

Indeed, we see that the tendency to develop a long-term strategic cooperation between Britain and Turkey. We can add Spain and Italy within some political layers to this. The Turkish defense industry's relationship with Britain is not just MMU consultancy. It extends to the domestic private shipbuilding sector, which the naval forces and the coast guard benefiting of time to time.

I would also like to remind you that the HMS OCEAN sale to Turkey was not realized because of Brazil's very urgent need. Defense circles in Turkey had learned the issue with the description of the British defense ministry, or a parliamentarian. Of course, discussing these issues is highly speculative. However, we can also add over this some aircraft and even naval platforms that some similiar partner countries will soon remove from active inventory. We can even give some very extreme examples like during a president's visit abroad to another country where the integration of aviation infrastructure is enormously challenging and asking to another president "Is this the plane we will take?" just next to cocpit.

I think the real question here is not HOW but WHY?

Delayed over delayed F-35 project and then US congress' prevent the acquire by TAF with political reasons, even remaining F4 fleet's having come to the end of life and many more other reasons that have problems in planning, there are need at least two fleets a stop-gap jet for the next 15-20 years. This assessment was based before Greece's air force announced its modernization and new procurement plans.

Very briefly, If you ask me, EF acquisition from Royal airforce ready inventory, engine partnership and integration of aviation industries, followed by a half-century roadmap that extends to MMU and TEMPEST definitely being evaluated somewhere.

 

[Turko]

How many of them could be bought?

Okay if TurAF received them, who would maintain the aircrafts , who would supply weapons? Would Germany that doesn't even sell tank engines, would supply weapons for TurAF?

 

[Timur]

Engines

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The Germans didn't sell us tank engines. In fact, when Tümosan received technical support from the Austrian AVL for the tank engine, the Germans prevented this.
Today, they are about to buy one of the companies that designed the Eurofighter fighter jet. That's why I wouldn't have trusted Germans much if it were me. You never know what they will do.

as someone living there I can tell you you know what they will do! and that is not good for us!!

 

[Timur]

How many of them could be bought?

Okay if TurAF received them, who would maintain the aircrafts , who would supply weapons? Would Germany that doesn't even sell tank engines, would supply weapons for TurAF?

no just remember the leo in syria.. you get strings attached to your product and they wont even sell spare parts

 

[mulj]

Can someome pls explain why is jf17 out of consideration. How i see it, it is proven platform, no restrictions for adaptation and armament, with domestic aesa and missilies it suddenly become nasty bird, not to mention what it would meant for connections between 2 countries, i see no rational argument against it as gap measure, i am sure pakstan will return the favour once you develope tfx. Think big, think to the future.

 

[Combat-Master]

Can someome pls explain why is jf17 out of consideration. How i see it, it is proven platform, no restrictions for adaptation and armament, with domestic aesa and missilies it suddenly become nasty bird, not to mention what it would meant for connections between 2 countries, i see no rational argument against it as gap measure, i am sure pakstan will return the favour once you develope tfx. Think big, think to the future.

Hurjet.

JF17 is good, but, Turkey is already invested in an aircraft that can be used as a force multiplier.

 

[mulj]

Hurjet.

I get that, but i dont see how dozens of jf17 can disrupt it, yo got what you need for short term needs with amplified efect, maybe pakistan would accept clausule to return those planes once hurriet enter in huge numbers into service. It is worth considering due all possible effects.

 

[Combat-Master]

I get that, but i dont see how dozens of jf17 can disrupt it, yo got what you need for short term needs with amplified efect, maybe pakistan would accept clausule to return those planes once hurriet enter in huge numbers into service. It is worth considering due all possible effects.

Certainly should be considered, but bringing JF17 up to Turkish Airforce specs with indigenous avionics and weapons, it would not be any quicker nor would acquiring the plane outright - there's going to be training issues armament precurements it all takes time. Best is to order some more F-16, if possible or work on an plan that's already in development and will certainly be added into Turkish Airforce inventory - my opinion.

 

[mulj]

Certainly should be considered, but bringing JF17 up to Turkish Airforce specs with indigenous avionics and weapons, it would not be any quicker nor would acquiring the plane outright - there's going to be training issues armament precurements it all takes time. Best is to order some more F-16, if possible or work on an plan that's already in development and will certainly be added into Turkish Airforce inventory - my opinion.

View attachment 10526

Considering climate f16 is not also certain but it is most logical choice, i agree with that.
By your knowledge about how much time we are speaking for training? Aselsan is proved as company which could do that task in more then reasonable time. What is fact you have less and time for overthinking, decision has to be made and good luck with that.

 

[Reviewbrah]

Certainly should be considered, but bringing JF17 up to Turkish Airforce specs with indigenous avionics and weapons, it would not be any quicker nor would acquiring the plane outright - there's going to be training issues armament precurements it all takes time. Best is to order some more F-16, if possible or work on an plan that's already in development and will certainly be added into Turkish Airforce inventory - my opinion.

View attachment 10526

If Hurjet project get delayed etc. Then I can see that Air Force would be interested in JF-17.

 

[Ghost soldier]

If buying typhoons directly is not possible due to german embargo then turkey can acquire qatari typhoons why not

 

[Combat-Master]

Considering climate f16 is not also certain but it is most logical choice, i agree with that.
By your knowledge about how much time we are speaking for training? Aselsan is proved as company which could do that task in more then reasonable time. What is fact you have less and time for overthinking, decision has to be made and good luck with that.

I would say 4-5 years (infrastructure, ground crew, trainers, weapons stock, spares etc) to a competency level that JF17 would be effective in war. Let's say 20 airframes are produced per year for 5 years, that would be 100 JF17 by the time Hurjet is developed and production begins..

If Hurjet project get delayed etc. Then I can see that Air Force would be interested in JF-17.

How big of a snag could it hit to delay it long enough for another platform to be chosen ?

Let's see what the Airforce is considering for a stop-gap, right now we are only hearing rumours that they want a stop-gap. I don't see snap of the finger decision making, it's going to take some time to negotiate, and the other side who's selling would not be as co-operative... unless it's JF-17

 

[what]

Entree a couple second hand Eurofighters, main dish is the TF-X and desert is some Tempest.

 

[Turko]

Chinese fighter will bring final end western relationship after s400 crisis. While TurAF and TurNavy are both bounded to western technology, we would dump all F16s into trash can , if we made farewell to NATO.

 

[Xenon54]

Chinese fighter will bring final end western relationship after s400 crisis. While TurAF and TurNavy are both bounded to western technology, we would dump all F16s into trash can , if we made farewell to NATO.

Yet at the same time European alternatives are a no-go for Turkey, for them you can buy the weapon but should not use them which is moronic to begin with.
The only viable option for Turkey is to repair relations to certain nations and restart the lobbying action in the US, at least until the defence industry has matured to a certian level.
And tbh, thats probably whats gonna happen in the next couple years, espacially in the post Erdogan era.

 

[Quasar]

frankly speaking I dont think generak staff will sit still and watch while we are losing qualitatve edge to enemy for coming 10-15 years concernig the air force, so highly probable. may be stop-gap solution was not the original plan but it became a necesity after the latest procurments or procurment plans of our adversaries in the region.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Euro fighter Typhoon consortium is led technically by BAE Systems And UK.
If RR and BAE Systems supported a sale to us , with the help of other two partners this sale should go through. The important point is to be able to produce the ej200 engine in Turkey. As mentioned here the use of this engine in Hurjet could be a deciding factor in consolidating a favourable sale. Potential of Hurjet quantities talked about is around 400. This means over 450 engines. If we buy 40-60 Typhoons that adds a further 100+ engines. This sort of production, could turn the tide in our favour so much that a good portion of Typhoon production can be done in TAI.
I have watched this plane in at least 3 air shows over the years. It is a marvel of technology!

The Programme | Eurofighter Typhoon

www.eurofighter.com

https://www.baesystems.com/en-be/download-en-be/20180131110104/1434586985913.pdf

 

[AzeriTank]

Euro fighter Typhoon consortium is led technically by BAE Systems And UK.
If RR and BAE Systems supported a sale to us , with the help of other two partners this sale should go through. The important point is to be able to produce the ej200 engine in Turkey. As mentioned here the use of this engine in Hurjet could be a deciding factor in consolidating a favourable sale. Potential of Hurjet quantities talked about is around 400. This means over 450 engines. If we buy 40-60 Typhoons that adds a further 100+ engines. This sort of production, could turn the tide in our favour so much that a good portion of Typhoon production can be done in TAI.
I have watched this plane in at least 3 air shows over the years. It is a marvel of technology!

The Programme | Eurofighter Typhoon

www.eurofighter.com

https://www.baesystems.com/en-be/download-en-be/20180131110104/1434586985913.pdf

View attachment 10541

if Turkey goes for used jets, that would be super smart... what i have seen so far, Erdogan really cares about what people think, he doeasnt want to leave a single hole that he could be judged, as we are very judging people. As we can see, this issues discussed so much in Turkish community, i think that thing alone might push Turkey to go for it... purchasing used ones also means it will come immediately, no need to wait...

 

[Turko]

Using this new fixturing technique and MSP’s ability to automate part setup, the process was reduced to four hours 38 minutes, made up of four hours machining time and 38 minutes setup time. No sub-optimal parts were produced and no rework was necessary

Production time reduced from 7 days to 4 hours for BAE Systems - MSP Ltd

Using a new fixturing technique and MSP’s ability to automate part setup, BAE Systems' production process was reduced to four hours 38 minutes. In two years, 1,100 perfect parts were made.

mspltd.com

BAE says its current fabrication work on the Typhoon is far from “metal-bashing”, citing the aircraft’s 98kg (216lb) canard as an example of its advanced manufacturing skills. The structure is made by diffusion bonding six sheets of titanium together at 950°C (1,740°F), with print patterns etched on each sheet later expanded by passing argon gas through the structure at 150°C in a super-plastic forming process. Requiring a total of 450 individual steps before completion, each canard is expected to last for the life of the aircraft, with one test example now in its second year of destructive test and having outlived its first test machine. “That’s at the strategic end of the market,” says hot form product manager Andy Shorthouse.

Eurofighter production techniques boost BAE Systems

www.flightglobal.com