TR Propulsion Systems

[Yasar_TR]

There is still a long way to go with this engine. We have only managed to run it for 10seconds. It needs to operate flawlessly before we can say we have “developed“ it. Nevertheless, what Tubitak has achieved is exemplary. Great step towards developing this engine.
As conventional air breathing jet engine technology is coming to it’s limits with respect to further developments, rotating detonation wave engine technology is the way forward. Poland and Russia have been at the forefront of the development of this technology. US have been conducting many hundreds of tests with this engine technology.
Combustion chamber of a Continuously Rotating Detonation Engine, CRDE is generally a coaxial cylinder, as shown:

In comparison with other detonation-based engines, CRDE has several inherent advantages. First, it needs only one-time initiation. Once started, detonation waves will continuously rotate. Secondly, due to the self-sustaining and self-compression of detonation waves, combustible mixtures can be compressed inherently.
This means CRDE can produce immense amount of thrust, resulting in less fuel consumption per lb of thrust generated. (Over25%).

Possible applications of this technology:

 

[Manomed]

The Hybrid Propulsion System Development Project, which can be used in military 4x4, 6x6 and 8x8 vehicles and will enable these vehicles to move more quietly and operate more efficiently in the tactical field, has been signed with BMC Power. In this project, which SSB attaches great importance, the electric motor, driver and axle systems will be developed locally and nationally. Work has started with the aim of developing Box Type ambulances, which are needed by the Ministry of Health. ASELSAN with equity to equip Armored Combat Carriers with electric traction system funded development project started

View attachment 43757

I doubt BMC will do anything.

 

[TheInsider]

Tubitak did something very impressive. Even though it is the first ignition of the prototype engine, the engine ran for 10 seconds and the first ignition test is successfully finished.

 

[Pilatino]

Tubitak did something very impressive. Even though it is the first ignition of the prototype engine, the engine ran for 10 seconds and the first ignition test is successfully finished.

What's the importance of that guys?

 

[Zafer]

What's the importance of that guys?

It shows a sustained combustion.
Run-time of chemical rocket engines are measured in seconds.
SpaceX Falcon-9 rockets burn times are at around 400 seconds.
This shows that Tübitak can achieve usable detonation engines when they advance their work.
Those engines can be used for space launch vehicles and what not.

 

[Yasar_TR]

What's the importance of that guys?

As I tried to explain above, the development of gas turbine engine technology is reaching it’s limits. Gas turbine engines can only operate in atmosphere. They are not very fuel efficient. At high altitudes you need turbojets, at lower altitudes you need turbofans.
A CRDE (Continuously Rotating Detonation Engine) can work in and outside of atmosphere. It is much more fuel efficient. On top of it it has potential to achieve immense amounts of thrust.
It can be used to propel space rockets or passenger planes. Or it can be used to power large ships in place of gas turbines.
Currently there are no operational engines using this technology. But the potential is great. We have joined the elite group of developers of this technology thanks to Tubitak.

 

[TheInsider]

What's the importance of that guys?

Well, Tubitak is developing a highly theoretical engine that no one ever developed an operational example of (You can't buy a CRDE engine from the GE). The first ignition test is a big success in achieving all the parameters. There are so many things that can go wrong with the first ignition with such a theoretical engine. It is unknown territory. The engine might fail to run or can even explode on the bench.

 

[B.t.N]

As I tried to explain above, the development of gas turbine engine technology is reaching it’s limits. Gas turbine engines can only operate in atmosphere. They are not very fuel efficient. At high altitudes you need turbojets, at lower altitudes you need turbofans.
A CRDE (Continuously Rotating Detonation Engine) can work in and outside of atmosphere. It is much more fuel efficient. On top of it it has potential to achieve immense amounts of thrust.
It can be used to propel space rockets or passenger planes. Or it can be used to power large ships in place of gas turbines.
Currently there are no operational engines using this technology. But the potential is great. We have joined the elite group of developers of this technology thanks to Tubitak.

As I understand, application requires a complex tune up and an alloy chamber to resist a chaotic set of detonations. Any words on this (could not find details on the net)?

 

[Ecderha]

Well, Tubitak is developing a highly theoretical engine that no one ever developed an operational example of (You can't buy a CRDE engine from the GE). The first ignition test is a big success in achieving all the parameters. There are so many things that can go wrong with the first ignition with such a theoretical engine. It is unknown territory. The engine might fail to run or can even explode on the bench.

"theoretical engine" is when it is in you mind, later you draw it on paper/blueprint etc.
We see that that phase is passed. When you build product which is working then you just start doing lot of tests.
IT mean it is real product which you get data and change/update it. No more theoretical there

 

[Yasar_TR]

As I understand, application requires a complex tune up and an alloy chamber to resist a chaotic set of detonations. Any words on this (could not find details on the net)?

Actually the beauty of this technology is that you are doing away with a lot of moving parts that a turbine engine consist of. In a CRDE what you have is an annular detonating chamber and fuel inlets. Normally There are no compressors no turbine blades that need to be made out of single crystals in a CRDE. But when there are turbines and compressors in a turbine engine that are working with a CRDE, the CRDE makes them operate more efficiently without the need for high temperatures normally needed with these engines.
A CRDE can also be incorporated in to a Tubojet Engine to render it more capable. The rotating detonation waves can also be applied in turbojet engines. Rotating detonation turbojet engine can produce a large effective thrust at low pressure ratio. This will reduce the number of compressors in conventional turbine engines and then reduce the demanding requirements of the turbine manufacturing process. The resulting combustion chamber is smaller, simpler, and of higher thrust/weight ratio. Due to the characteristic of detonation waves, the performance of such engines will be increased greatly as well.
If you check the cylindrical annular chamber in below diagram you will see that the detonation waves for different fuels give different detonation wave structures.

In order to have continuous detonation wave there are certain limitations and rules with respect to detonation chamber size and height. For example, the radial size of the chamber should not be smaller than one detonation-cell size.

This technology, theoretically, would revolutionise the ramjet engines as well.
Here is the simple set up the Chinese scientists have carried out their tests with:

Here is a cross sectional very slow motion picture taken by the French lab that carried out the tests which shows individual detonations in the combustion chamber;

Experimental CRDE set up in USA:

 

[B.t.N]

Actually the beauty of this technology is that you are doing away with a lot of moving parts that a turbine engine consist of. In a CRDE what you have is an annular detonating chamber and fuel inlets. Normally There are no compressors no turbine blades that need to be made out of single crystals in a CRDE. But when there are turbines and compressors in a turbine engine that are working with a CRDE, the CRDE makes them operate more efficiently without the need for high temperatures normally needed with these engines.
A CRDE can also be incorporated in to a Tubojet Engine to render it more capable. The rotating detonation waves can also be applied in turbojet engines. Rotating detonation turbojet engine can produce a large effective thrust at low pressure ratio. This will reduce the number of compressors in conventional turbine engines and then reduce the demanding requirements of the turbine manufacturing process. The resulting combustion chamber is smaller, simpler, and of higher thrust/weight ratio. Due to the characteristic of detonation waves, the performance of such engines will be increased greatly as well.
If you check the cylindrical annular chamber in below diagram you will see that the detonation waves for different fuels give different detonation wave structures.
View attachment 44579

In order to have continuous detonation wave there are certain limitations and rules with respect to detonation chamber size and height. For example, the radial size of the chamber should not be smaller than one detonation-cell size.

View attachment 44580

This technology, theoretically, would revolutionise the ramjet engines as well.
Here is the simple set up the Chinese scientists have carried out their tests with:
View attachment 44581

Here is a cross sectional very slow motion picture taken by the French lab that carried out the tests which shows individual detonations in the combustion chamber;
View attachment 44582

Experimental CRDE set up in USA:

View attachment 44583

Perfect explanation, thank you! Makes it a lot easier to comprehend…

 

[Khagan1923]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534513913194237953

First batch of KTJ-3200 to be delivered this month.

- KTJ-1750 Tests will begin this Month as well.

-KTJ-3700 will be ready for tests and qualification within this year.

KTJ-3700 to be used on Kara Atmaca(which should give it a longer range)

 

[neosinan]

Limited number of Ktj3200 prototype was delivered last year.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534518639944245251

 

[TheInsider]

Yes, prototype engines were delivered last year to start integration studies but it was decided to use a random engine from the first serial production batch to use in the firing tests. Live fire tests with KTJ-3200 will be done in Q3 this year.
KTJ-1750 tests will begin this month.
KTJ-3700 tests will begin this year. ( There are 4-6 months time difference between KTJ-1750 and KTJ-3700 )
Things will move very smoothly from this point on as Kale got the hang of this set up the national facilities and nationalized nearly all of the logistical chain of its products.

 

[TheInsider]

BIG SURPRISE

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535162459971010560

TF-6000 Design is completed. The project progressed to the prototype manufacturing phase.
6000lbs dry thrust 10000lbs with afterburner.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

BIG SURPRISE

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535162459971010560

 

[Merzifonlu]

Very good. But IMO TEI little bit slow.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Tf6000

• 6000lb dry thrust
• 10000lb afterburner
• Prototype production phase

 

[Agha Sher]

BIG SURPRISE

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535162459971010560

TF-6000 Design is completed. The project progressed to the prototype manufacturing phase.
6000lbs dry thrust 10000lbs with afterburner.

Realistically, how many years before we see it powering MIUS and TAIs stealth drone?

Also, kinda a rookie question, is lbs and lbf interchangeable? AI-222-25 has a thrust of 5500lbf, will TF-6000 be more powerful than the AI-222-25?

Lastly, any info on thrust to weight ratio?

 

[AWP]

congrats for the TF-6000 achievement

can someone please tell us on which turkish or foreign platforms this engine will be used ?