TR Turkiye's F-35 Project and Discussions

[bisbis]

What makes you think the F-35 has a "backdoor"? There's no hard evidence about it, only conspiracy theory... As you say, aren't you afraid of stopping the supply of components to the F-16 because of the upcoming Syrian and Iraqi operations? What about the parts supply disruption to the E-737? Why the hell are they using American weapons? Why don't you know that stopping parts and diplomatic pressure are more effective than installing large-capacity software such as backdoor?

We know this. But such restrictions are made as a last resort. Afterwards, normalization becomes late and difficult. We know this from the 1974 Cyprus operation.

In addition, if you are supplying mutually with a country on the same subject, applying such an embargo will harm your country.

There are military materials, maintenance and repair processes in the USA that it procured from Turkey. It is risky to implement the embargo you mentioned. In addition, there are various logistics, operational convenience and opportunities that Turkey provides to the USA.

It would be risky to give up on them. As a result of the applications they made to our country after the purchase of the S400, the efficiency of the usa and the EU in our region dropped.

In other words, the policy you say cannot be implemented without breaking the relations.

Well, as you said, if there is no back door in the f35 system, why did European users have to pay money and develop a new logistics support system?

 

[Zafer]

What makes you think the F-35 has a "backdoor"? There's no hard evidence about it, only conspiracy theory... As you say, aren't you afraid of stopping the supply of components to the F-16 because of the upcoming Syrian and Iraqi operations? What about the parts supply disruption to the E-737? Why the hell are they using American weapons? Why don't you know that stopping parts and diplomatic pressure are more effective than installing large-capacity software such as backdoor?

Hacking takes effect immediately while sanctioning parts may never take effect as in the case of TAI making upgrades to F16 themselves.

 

[bisbis]

First airborne AESA FCR entered service in 1995 and first f35 entered service in 2015.

Besides, aircraft RCS has nothing to with AESA or PESA but has to do with radar's band.

I compared it with their development time, not as an introduction to service. Maybe it's conflicted and tested.

but there is a technological difference between the first principles and the present ones. For example, even the basic semiconductor material GaN (Gallium Nitrite) has made a huge revolution. In particular, the RF signal output power of aesa radars has increased, such as the increase in the rf signal frequency, and the target detection range and continuity.

I think it affects the way pesa and aesa work, as well as detecting a plane. As a result, the instantaneous, number, intensity, frequency diversity, continuity of the signal, the strength of the signal, the processor power of the radar are all different and separate effects of the rf energy coming out of the aesa radar and the pesa radar.

 

[Afif]

I compared it with their development time, not as an introduction to service. Maybe it's conflicted and tested.

but there is a technological difference between the first principles and the present ones. For example, even the basic semiconductor material GaN (Gallium Nitrite) has made a huge revolution.

I think it affects the way pesa and aesa work, as well as detecting a plane. As a result, the instantaneous, number, intensity, frequency diversity, continuity of the signal, the strength of the signal, the processor power of the radar are all different and separate effects of the rf energy coming out of the aesa radar and the pesa radar.

GaN and GaAS doesnt make that much different as you think.
Frequency diversity, electronic steering does not make f35 appears bigger than its actual RCS.
these aspects has more to do with LPI and jamming resistance and coverage area.

it is radars band and multiple digital beamforming, which has effect on stealth.

however, to keep your own stealth you cannot use your radar too much as it may give up your position to enemy.

 

[urban mine]

We know this. But such restrictions are made as a last resort. Afterwards, normalization becomes late and difficult. We know this from the 1974 Cyprus operation.

In addition, if you are supplying mutually with a country on the same subject, applying such an embargo will harm your country.

There are military materials, maintenance and repair processes in the USA that it procured from Turkey. It is risky to implement the embargo you mentioned. In addition, there are various logistics, operational convenience and opportunities that Turkey provides to the USA.

It would be risky to give up on them. As a result of the applications they made to our country after the purchase of the S400, the efficiency of the usa and the EU in our region dropped.

In other words, the policy you say cannot be implemented without breaking the relations.

Well, as you said, if there is no back door in the f35 system, why did European users have to pay money and develop a new logistics support system?

Why, then, does the United States make that last resort so easy? The assumption you mentioned above (Turkey buys the F-35 and the U.S. controls it as a backdoor) is the same thing that undermines state relations...

ALIS for the F-35 is actually not working properly. It's not even properly developed. Now, there are many problems in replacing it with a new logistics system called ODIN. By the way, I don't know what the hell this means that Europe is developing a new logistics system. Please give me a link to that.

First, we found information about each country's efforts to protect sensitive data information.

Solving data sovereignty and classified information protection issues with the F-35 ALIS / ODIN system - infodas

Understanding the F-35 ALIS ODIN sovereign data management challenge and solving them with cross domain solutions

www.infodas.com

I realized that it is very difficult to convince you with the limitations of my ability and English.

Sigh. F-35 isn't my area of expertise, so why should I look for such expertise when I refute the human nonsense that data links can control the other country?

 

[urban mine]

Hacking takes effect immediately while sanctioning parts may never take effect as in the case of TAI making upgrades to F16 themselves.

What are you talking about? Do you think ÖZGÜR is the ship of Theseus who plows all the F-16s? Even if you do, what about the engine do? Are you going to reverse engineer the F-110 or something?
Oh, I'm tired now. I just want others to show a healthier debate.

 

[bisbis]

Urban mine said; "Why, then, does the United States make that last resort so easy? The assumption you mentioned above (Turkey buys the F-35 and the U.S. controls it as a backdoor) is the same thing that undermines state relations..."

Dude, you can't see, notice, prove, or hold accountable events at the digital back door. The guys simply say there is a problem with the system, they say there is no problem with us, you have a problem and they pass it off.

For example, it disables the aircraft's radar. In this case, the aircraft cannot take off for duty. But not sending material is not an undeniable defect.

 

[urban mine]

Urban mine said; "Why, then, does the United States make that last resort so easy? The assumption you mentioned above (Turkey buys the F-35 and the U.S. controls it as a backdoor) is the same thing that undermines state relations..."

Dude, you can't see, notice, prove, or hold accountable events at the digital back door. The guys simply say there is a problem with the system, they say there is no problem with us, you have a problem and they pass it off.

For example, it disables the aircraft's radar. In this case, the aircraft cannot take off for duty. But not sending material is not an undeniable defect.

I thing Your military aviation knowledge is somewhat limited. Write and read a little if you want. Participate in discussions when you reach a certain level.

Yes, thank you for the good advice. Friend who believes that LINK-16 encryption key can bring the other person to his knees. Please ask the Turkish Air Force Forum the same. Please. 'Why do we use LINK-16?'

 

[Zafer]

What are you talking about? Do you think ÖZGÜR is the ship of Theseus who plows all the F-16s? Even if you do, what about the engine do? Are you going to reverse engineer the F-110 or something?
Oh, I'm tired now. I just want others to show a healthier debate.

You can always salvage parts from retiring planes. I guess some of those engines were partially made in Turkiye too.

 

[bisbis]

Yes, thank you for the good advice. Friend who believes that LINK-16 encryption key can bring the other person to his knees. Please ask the Turkish Air Force Forum the same. Please. 'Why do we use LINK-16?'

Sorry, no one needs to kneel here. We are just discussing, getting informed. Why do we use link 16, because we have to buy whatever system the USA puts on the plane it sells.

But we are also developing our local Lasso system.

 

[bisbis]

GaN and GaAS doesnt make that much different as you think.
Frequency diversity, electronic steering does not make f35 appears bigger than its actual RCS.
these aspects has more to do with LPI and jamming resistance and coverage area.

it is radars band and multiple digital beamforming, which has effect on stealth.

however, to keep your own stealth you cannot use your radar too much as it may give up your position to enemy.

My knowledge on this matter is different from what you expressed.

 

[Afif]

Your f35 bashing does not seems to make lot of sense.

 

[what]

The moment we would get the F35 again, 80-90% of the negative posts would turn positive. As others have mentioned, its basically F35 bashing at this point.

While everyone that can gets the F35 some posters are busy with finding minor unfunded articles to post to bash a plane that has its issues, was very expensive but is turning slowly turning into the new F16 of our time.

 

[Nilgiri]

The moment we would get the F35 again, 80-90% of the negative posts would turn positive. As others have mentioned, its basically F35 bashing at this point.

While everyone that can gets the F35 some posters are busy with finding minor unfunded articles to post to bash a plane that has its issues, was very expensive but is turning slowly turning into the new F16 of our time.

Welcome to the internet

It would be deja vu if we had the internet ecosystem for all the troubles the F-16 faced in the 70s and 80s during its early days. In fact I would say pretty much hand in glove identical if it could be done.

Folks want reductive takes on something (confirmation bias feel good etc)....but often the scale and depth of that something is a direct oxymoron to providing that. Then it becomes a waste of time explaining repeatedly for such folks. It is what it is. I learned to cut my losses long time ago (on this phenomenon more broadly).

 

[what]

Folks want reductive takes on something (confirmation bias feel good etc)....but often the scale and depth of that something is a direct oxymoron to providing that. Then it becomes a waste of time explaining repeatedly for such folks. It is what it is. I learned to cut my losses long time ago (on this phenomenon more broadly).

That's exactly why this thread, while it has its right to exist, mostly attracts unnecessary rumours and bashing. Might be time to close it or to move posts that are not really on topic to the US subforum or to a relevant F35 thread.

 

[Nilgiri]

That's exactly why this thread, while it has its right to exist, mostly attracts unnecessary rumours and bashing. Might be time to close it or to move posts that are not really on topic to the US subforum or to a relevant F35 thread.

I'll let other mods and admins decide on that I guess. I didn't realise this was in TR section to begin with.

BTW, I'll leave this here regarding the massive debacle and failure that the F-16 turned out to be, the problems in its genesis just kept compounding clearly:

The Outrageous Adolescence of the F-16

The Viper was small, fast, and in your face

www.smithsonianmag.com

The author is also a total complete amateur compared to the all-knowing anonymous pinnacles of wisdom the internet has in abundance:

EILEEN A. BJORKMAN

Executive Director, Air Force Test Center

www.af.mil

 

[Ryder]

Welcome to the internet

It would be deja vu if we had the internet ecosystem for all the troubles the F-16 faced in the 70s and 80s during its early days. In fact I would say pretty much hand in glove identical if it could be done.

Folks want reductive takes on something (confirmation bias feel good etc)....but often the scale and depth of that something is a direct oxymoron to providing that. Then it becomes a waste of time explaining repeatedly for such folks. It is what it is. I learned to cut my losses long time ago (on this phenomenon more broadly).

Deep down i think everybody wants the F35.

I want that plane for the Turkish air force and deep down even with all the bs dilemmas. I want that plane

 

[urban mine]

Sorry, no one needs to kneel here. We are just discussing, getting informed. Why do we use link 16, because we have to buy whatever system the USA puts on the plane it sells.

But we are also developing our local Lasso system.

What kind of discussion is this and getting information? You said (F-35 is controlled by LINK-16 encryption key). Therefore, this is rubbish.) does not admit that it is wrong and is constantly spouting self-assertion. Do you think this is a discussion?

And you don't have to buy every system of weapons sold by the United States. Indonesia F-16 does not include LINK-16(). In the country where the weapon is to be used, look at the catalog, add something to add and subtract. The reason why you have LINK-16 is to make it easier to operate with NATO and to operate with the United States.

I know the existence of your country's own data link system (to be honest I wonder if you've heard this right). But is it as secure as LINK-16 and enough capacity at the same time? Do you remember the picture I posted? List of Member States using LINK-16 None of the countries there does not develop their own data links. Nevertheless, the reason why they use LINK-16 is that I am satisfied with the joint operation and the performance of LINK-16 itself mentioned above.

It's not because the U.S. forces it...

I beg you again earnestly. Ask your Air Force pilot or Aselsan. 'Why do we use LINK-16?' 'That bloody United States would want to control us.''

 

[blackjack]

I am excited about photonic radars, as much as we know OTH radars being a means of tracking stealth, is there stealth material that can absorb 100ghz frequencies?

 

[Afif]

I am excited about photonic radars, as much as we know OTH radars being a means of tracking stealth, is there stealth material that can absorb 100ghz frequencies?

You can't get a lock on with 100ghz.