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Sanchez

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Why folks are asking for UMTAS when there is a 76mm gun.
More than Umtas, a Yalman launcher. Add 4 Umtas-GMs on it, would be a great NLOS weapons platform for shallow seas against anything smaller than a corvette.
May not be in contract but planned for later? Haven't seen a foundation for Yalman turret either.
TBH I never liked that location for Yalmans. Would steal from Gökdeniz's operating angle. Maybe at the back, behind RCWS? Or maybe it's time they go for a gun+missile approach.
 

UkroTurk

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No Umtas launchers on the sides of Gökdeniz, but there will be diver detection dipping sonars?

Messy

The geometry of the battleship doesn't seem to be considered at all. They put everything they have into it. Like Soviet battleships of the 1970s. I guess it's for testing purposes.

Where are the Fixed AESA radars?

Guided UMTAS for me is very important against USV. They know better.
 

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Hermes team noticed a detail in this news. According to the Spanish media outlet, the two countries have agreed to work on a possible cooperation for a new medium-term joint submarine construction program. I have not checked the news source and have no idea about its reliability. The reason I am sharing it is that it seems that this issue is not only being speculated on our side, but is also being discussed in Spanish defense circles.

 

Anmdt

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Hermes team noticed a detail in this news. According to the Spanish media outlet, the two countries have agreed to work on a possible cooperation for a new medium-term joint submarine construction program. I have not checked the news source and have no idea about its reliability. The reason I am sharing it is that it seems that this issue is not only being speculated on our side, but is also being discussed in Spanish defense circles.

InfoDefensa again? I haven't clicked the link and i may tell it is them. A bit unreliable and exaggerates existing information bits.
 

Sanchez

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InfoDefensa again? I haven't clicked the link and i may tell it is them. A bit unreliable and exaggerates existing information bits.
Piece is from November 7, around the time we discussed it. So nothing new.
 

dBSPL

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InfoDefensa again? I haven't clicked the link and i may tell it is them. A bit unreliable and exaggerates existing information bits.
Piece is from November 7, around the time we discussed it. So nothing new.
Okay, that's clear. Probably an echo of the baseless speculation here.
 

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Commander of Turkish Naval Forces Admiral Ercüment Tatlıoğlu:

"Work is continuing on the development of a 260-280m aircraft carrier, which is larger than the TCG Anadolu, for our Naval Forces."

 

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Mr Tatlıoğlu: "There were some adjustments on TTAB project. It was too big in terms of tonnage and its speed was low. We wanted to increase the speed because speed is very important for us."

images-246.jpeg
 

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Mr Tatlıoğlu: "There were some adjustments on TTAB project. It was too big in terms of tonnage and its speed was low. We wanted to increase the speed because speed is very important for us."

View attachment 63967
It was TN that increased the size of the platform, with additional requirements for space and equipment, which led to a decrease in the maximum speed. It's like "Oops, it got too big, let's make it smaller again".

That's how we got the MPAC-type design instead of the FAC-55, which was smaller and more agile.

It looks like they are looking for ways to scrap STM's design and go with Yonca or Onuk (via TAIS).

Also, at some point it was TN again who desired to revise the design and make it almost as big as Corvette.
 

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Commander of Turkish Naval Forces Admiral Ercüment Tatlıoğlu:

"Work is continuing on the development of a 260-280m aircraft carrier, which is larger than the TCG Anadolu, for our Naval Forces."

Wording is interesting. It's of course unofficial in its tone so maybe not smart to take a meaning from there but he says "a larger Anadolu" and "an aircraft carrier". Length itself doesn't mean much. America Class also come about at 260 meters. Kaga is about 250.

Wish we knew about specifics. Will it have a welldeck like Anadolu? It probably won't have CATOBAR. if we are thinking about fixed wing operations, it will probably have an angled deck? Not much to go with.

It was TN that increased the size of the platform, with additional requirements for space and equipment, which led to a decrease in the maximum speed. It's like "Oops, it got too big, let's make it smaller again".

That's how we got the MPAC-type design instead of the FAC-55, which was smaller and more agile.

It looks like they are looking for ways to scrap STM's design and go with Yonca or Onuk (via TAIS).

Also, at some point it was TN again who desired to revise the design and make it almost as big as Corvette.
Issue of the new type FAC has been going on for years. Maybe a doctrine change is afoot and they can't make up their minds on what a future small combatant should look like?
 

uçuyorum

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It was TN that increased the size of the platform, with additional requirements for space and equipment, which led to a decrease in the maximum speed. It's like "Oops, it got too big, let's make it smaller again".

That's how we got the MPAC-type design instead of the FAC-55, which was smaller and more agile.

It looks like they are looking for ways to scrap STM's design and go with Yonca or Onuk (via TAIS).

Also, at some point it was TN again who desired to revise the design and make it almost as big as Corvette.
Honestly I'd love if we did something with similar tonnage and weapons load to Karakurt Class corvette, so that they would be able to operate further in east med even without frigates and heavy corvette like ada class that's used like frigate by export customers. Don't know if smaller and faster is the right way to go
 

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Commander of Turkish Naval Forces Admiral Ercüment Tatlıoğlu:

"Work is continuing on the development of a 260-280m aircraft carrier, which is larger than the TCG Anadolu, for our Naval Forces."

He also adds that new Amphibious Assault Ships (maybe Landing Ships?) are in the queue. I'm not quite sure if this is a reference to the acquisition of older LSTs, or if it's a reference to additional ships.

Besides, there are other crucial vessels that TN falls in the need of;
  • Next Generation Mine hunter vessel
  • Research Vessel (Hydrographic Survey)
  • Ocean-going tug
  • Additional RAT Vessel (Multi-purpose OSV)
 

Knowledgeseeker

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It was TN that increased the size of the platform, with additional requirements for space and equipment, which led to a decrease in the maximum speed. It's like "Oops, it got too big, let's make it smaller again".

That's how we got the MPAC-type design instead of the FAC-55, which was smaller and more agile.

It looks like they are looking for ways to scrap STM's design and go with Yonca or Onuk (via TAIS).

Also, at some point it was TN again who desired to revise the design and make it almost as big as Corvette.

Is the TTAB, and the TTHB the same project? Will we see any changes for the MPAC version that is intended for export as well?
 

Anmdt

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Wording is interesting. It's of course unofficial in its tone so maybe not smart to take a meaning from there but he says "a larger Anadolu" and "an aircraft carrier". Length itself doesn't mean much. America Class also come about at 260 meters. Kaga is about 250.

Wish we knew about specifics. Will it have a welldeck like Anadolu? It probably won't have CATOBAR. if we are thinking about fixed wing operations, it will probably have an angled deck? Not much to go with.


Issue of the new type FAC has been going on for years. Maybe a doctrine change is afoot and they can't make up their minds on what a future small combatant should look like?
It is in the Bermuda Triangle; SSB - MSB - TN. The files go round in circles for years and years waiting for an answer to opinions and views.
I have seen the worst of it, and this is even worse than that.
 

Anmdt

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Is the TTAB, and the TTHB the same project? Will we see any changes for the MPAC version that is intended for export as well?
TTAB is TTHB in English, MPAC is STM's design that can be modified to suit the customer's needs.
 

boredaf

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It is in the Bermuda Triangle; SSB - MSB - TN. The files go round in circles for years and years waiting for an answer to opinions and views.
I have seen the worst of it, and this is even worse than that.
This type of indecision and bureaucracy has made us lose too much time on too many projects.
 

UkroTurk

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It was TN that increased the size of the platform, with additional requirements for space and equipment, which led to a decrease in the maximum speed. It's like "Oops, it got too big, let's make it smaller again".

That's how we got the MPAC-type design instead of the FAC-55, which was smaller and more agile.

It looks like they are looking for ways to scrap STM's design and go with Yonca or Onuk (via TAIS).

Also, at some point it was TN again who desired to revise the design and make it almost as big as Corvette.
Which one of these would be best for us in your opinion?
Speed and agility in compact size VS big size?
 

Sanchez

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This type of indecision and bureaucracy has made us lose too much time on too many projects.
I mean, there's not much you can do about this. TN has its own ideas in its own future. MSB has the job of managing the budget they are allocated fully and to the best of its capabilities for all branches. SSB has the mission of maximizing defence sector participation and needs so that it can survive and cherish. This is the best case scenario where there's no petty infighting. And over the years we've seen that there's plenty of infighting to go around. What's a better way?

Navy usually moved without rocking the boat re its future plans for the last 2 decades because they had plans. Those plans came out of working groups and inner bureaucracy like this. I wouldn't want to be sitting on those tables, that's for sure.
 

TheInsider

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Yeah MPAC is a bad design. It is a fucking light Corvette not a FAC. I would rather get a 1000-1300 ton light corvette than MPAC those two vessels will have comparable speed the latter will carry more equipment including USVs and will have more endurance and will be operational at higher sea state. A FAC shouldn't be heavier than 500 tons and should have cutting-edge speed, IR, and RCS reduction. It should travel quickly, attack and deploy its weapons quickly return to its base/safe area quickly.

It seems the Navy wants a mid-sized(40-60k tons) CV rather than a second LHD (25-30k tons).
 
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