TR Air Defence Programs

[boredaf]

Semi related. Polish are thinking about a SPAAG based on K9 hull.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1735729083768611106

That's basically Gürz on a tank chassis

 

[Agha Sher]

Hisar-O+

View attachment 63935 View attachment 63936 View attachment 63937

Why does each launcher only have 3 missiles? Very easy to saturate one of these units.

 

[Afif]

Why does each launcher only have 3 missiles? Very easy to saturate one of these units.

Saturate how? Even if it has the full load of 18 interceptors you can still saturate it. That is why it is imperative to layer a HISAR O+ battery with Orelikon air defence guns or KORKUT SPAAG.

Besides, even on their own there are complexities and variations in tactics, technique and procedures of these medium range Air defence systems And how they are employed. So, it is not that white and black either.

 

[Kartal1]

Why does each launcher only have 3 missiles? Very easy to saturate one of these units.

The launcher is modular. Configuration may vary as our brother @Afif stated.

 

[Anmdt]

Simply put, this is the case. This can be many things, from all over the world. It's impossible to ascertain which is which, what makes these figures. But almost four fifth's of Aselsan's workshare is in euros. Siper, nor Hisar, can exist without foreign parts. A system this complex cannot be fully local. It probably wouldn't ever been if we were able to make every chip and bolt in house, because this is a production deal, and foreign subcomponents for products as big as this will always be cheaper.

What matters is that these are controlled, and embargoes don't stop us.

Also bear in mind that although not imported as a product, most processes involve foreign machinery and equipment, which is tied to currency. This is more of an indirect source of foreign currency expenditure.

 

[Anmdt]

A few things that were hinted at in the recent ceremony, but not said;

• The Siper battery's FFS count can be increased to 8, allowing a battery to contain 48 missiles ready to fire.
• CFAKR can engage 10 different targets, multiple missiles can be directed at a single target.
• CFAKR can be linked to 4 FFS, giving 24 missiles ready to fire per FCR.
• A battery formation with 1 search (T-EIRS), 2 fire control radar (CFAKR) is possible.
• CFAKR can guide missiles beyond 150 km if necessary.
• CFAKR has a search radar function in case of need.

 

[Afif]

That is a little disappointing for me.
I was hoping one CFAKR can be linked to all 8 FFS and will be able to engage 16/24 targets simultaneously.

Hope they can Upgrade the SIPER complex later up to such standards.

 

[uçuyorum]

Few things that are implied recently in the ceremony;

• Siper battery's FFS amount can be increased to 8, thus one battery can be made to contain 48 ready to fire missiles.
• One CFAKR is capable of engaging 10 different targets, multiple missiles can be directed on a single target.
• One CFAKR can be linked to 4 FFS, thus 24 ready to fire missiles.
• There is a possible battery formation with 1 Search, 2 Fire Control (CFAK) Radar.
• CFAKR can guide missiles beyond 150 km when necessary.

It always seemed like one fire control radar per siper battery was unbalanced, 2 fc 1 search should have been the standard honestly

 

[UkroTurk]

View attachment 60580

And a sideway look for SİPER B2 View attachment 57035

Up up up

 

[TheInsider]

ÇFAKR can guide 10 missiles (can create 10 guidance beams) simultaneously to different targets at 150km. ÇFAKR can guide missiles up to "x" km on a single target or if targets are nearby in a tight formation with a single high-power beam. Of course, it can create 2,3 beams, etc that can still guide missiles over 150km. 150km is given for a maximum of 10 beams.

 

[UkroTurk]

guidance beams

Why guidance beams? The missiles dont have passive seekers.

 

[Siper>MMU]

Why guidance beams? The missiles dont have passive seekers.

Missiles uplink has separate phased array antennas mounted on a mast but I guess he is talking about the monopulse tracking beams from the radar itself.

A radars range can depend on the current situation and I don't think the 150km range given is for 10 different beams. With electronic beamforming you can make a single very powerfull beam with more lower power beams. It mostly depends on the current target situation.

 

[Sanchez]

HvKK to probably use Hisar A+/O together in a single battery?

https://x.com/Fatih_MehmetK/status/1736052454024732828

And going by the graphic, which is based on the graphic from the signature ceremony, TAF to induct 9 Hisar and 2 Siper batteries into the service in the next 6 years?

https://x.com/Defence_Turk/status/1736051224841973794

 

[Afif]

HvKK to probably use Hisar A+/O together in a single battery?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1736052454024732828

And going by the graphic, which is based on the graphic from the signature ceremony, TAF to induct 9 Hisar and 2 Siper batteries into the service in the next 6 years?

Which graphics? Can you share them?

 

[Bogeyman]

Which graphics? Can you share them?

Actually, he shared the link, but the forum no longer sees the link from Twitter.

 

[Sanchez]

View attachment 63980


Actually, he shared the link, but the forum no longer sees the link from Twitter.

Yup, seems there's an issue with plugins.

I meant this graphic Defence Turk shared. It's not official, but if they took Siper's 1+1 delivery timeline as standard, it would mean 11 systems.

 

[KhanOfEurasia]

This mean TurAF will not recieve first Siper Units next Year ?

 

[Sanchez]

This mean TurAF will not recieve first Siper Units next Year ?

As far as i understand, nope. 2026 for delivery, 2027 for option. Presumably 1+1. Which is where i came to the 11 number for total deliveries for Hisar+Siper, which is of course not official, just a guess.
Watching the ceremony,
For KKK, original Hisar deliveries are to be completed on 2025. With the contract change that was signed where HvKK also joined in on Hisar, beginning from 2025, a Hisar will be delivered every 6 months until 2028.
For Siper, plan is to deliver the first battery to HvKK on first month of 2026.

 

[Aqerdf]

First Siper-I Battery will be accepted in mid. 2024 according to Ceremony. They have it already but it's in test qualification process by the Air Force if i get it right. Because it shows 2023-2024 for first Siper-I Battery.

 

[Afif]

So, in total Turkish Army will have 7 HISAR O+ batteries.

*1x Prototype battery. (That was delivered in 2022)
*4x batteries that were ordered initially in 2021. (Assuming the report was correct)
*2x more batteries under the new contract.

Turkish Air Force will receive 3x HISAR A/O (likely in the configuration that
@Sanchez mentioned) and 3x SIPER batteries.

*1 SIPER prototype battery (to be delivered in 2024)
*2x SIPER batteries under the new mass production contract.

Apart from that, Turkish Army will also receive 4x HISAR A+ batteries in two configurations under the new contract.