TR Attack & Utility Helicopter Programs

[uçuyorum]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1780973662805397551

MORE THAN 100 GÖKBEY HELICOPTERS WILL BE SUPPLIED!

Defense Industry President Prof. Dr. Haluk Görgün Görgün said that 20 helicopters will be procured in the first phase, including 7 for the Land Forces Command, 4 for the Air Forces Command, 3 for the Gendarmerie General Command, 3 for the Coast Guard Command and 3 for the General Directorate of Security.

Görgün stated that the first GÖKBEY Helicopter will be delivered to the Gendarmerie General Command this year, within the scope of the contract signed in 2022 after the test activities, and said:

"Following the completion of the civil certification activities carried out with the General Directorate of Civil Aviation, we will deliver 3 GÖKBEY Helicopters to meet the ambulance helicopter needs of our Ministry of Health.

In the coming period, we will continue our efforts to supply the remaining 112 GÖKBEY Helicopters that are needed domestically and our initiatives to sell helicopters abroad.

GÖKBEY Helicopter made its first flight in 2023 with the TS1400 engine developed by TEI. "With the TS-1400 engine entering the mass production phase, we plan to continue mass production of the GÖKBEY Helicopter with the domestic engine without slowing down from 2027."

I think this means they decided to procude more with the foreign engine then for initial batch

 

[TheInsider]

Both the EASA aircraft type certificate and engine type certificate(TS-1400) are needed for the Gökbey helicopter. The first one progressed well but has seen delays due to the EASA inspector scheduling. The second one has recently started. Gendarmes and the ministry of health want EASA civil certification because those helicopters will be used for civilian duties.

 

[Sanchez]

Gendarme’s first batch of helicopters won’t use TS1400. Delays still apparent and now the revised delivery timeline is “this year”.

good that KKK, HvKK and police have joined the fray as well.

 

[uçuyorum]

Gendarme’s first batch of helicopters won’t use TS1400. Delays still apparent and now the revised delivery timeline is “this year”.

good that KKK, HvKK and police have joined the fray as well.

Yes I mean the idea was only first 3 would use foreign engine but it seems first 20 will go same way

 

[Sanchez]

Yes I mean the idea was only first 3 would use foreign engine but it seems first 20 will go same way

Can’t remember the exact number right now but at least 10-20(?) T625s will use foreign engines. This was announced last year.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Can’t remember the exact number right now but at least 10-20(?) T625s will use foreign engines. This was announced last year.

Reading above info regarding Gokbey and TS1400, I understand that the EASA approved TS1400 being available for Gokbey is given as 2027. So all production/deliveries until 2027 will use LHTEC800 engine.

Come to think about it; If 2028 is the end of licence agreement for T-129, I wonder if it coincides with the licensing agreement of LHTEC engine too?

That makes it all the more important for TS1400 to be fully operational and available by that date with all approvals in place.

However that still does not solve our dilemma for the T-929 engine. Our only short term solution is to licence produce T700 engine by improving power output to suit our helicopter. This engine, in it’s CT7 format can yield a shaft power of up to 3000HP as used in Superhawk helicopters. Whether GE would let licence production of that engine be available , is another question though.

Superhawk S92

 

[uçuyorum]

Reading above info regarding Gokbey and TS1400, I understand that the EASA approved TS1400 being available for Gokbey is given as 2027. So all production/deliveries until 2027 will use LHTEC800 engine.

Come to think about it; If 2028 is the end of licence agreement for T-129, I wonder if it coincides with the licensing agreement of LHTEC engine too?

That makes it all the more important for TS1400 to be fully operational and available by that date with all approvals in place.

However that still does not solve our dilemma for the T-929 engine. Our only short term solution is to licence produce T700 engine by improving power output to suit our helicopter. This engine, in it’s CT7 format can yield a shaft power of up to 3000HP as used in Superhawk helicopters. Whether GE would let licence production of that engine be, is another question though.

929 is long forsaken... More importantly we still have same problem for T925 though

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Reading above info regarding Gokbey and TS1400, I understand that the EASA approved TS1400 being available for Gokbey is given as 2027. So all production/deliveries until 2027 will use LHTEC800 engine.

Come to think about it; If 2028 is the end of licence agreement for T-129, I wonder if it coincides with the licensing agreement of LHTEC engine too?

That makes it all the more important for TS1400 to be fully operational and available by that date with all approvals in place.

However that still does not solve our dilemma for the T-929 engine. Our only short term solution is to licence produce T700 engine by improving power output to suit our helicopter. This engine, in it’s CT7 format can yield a shaft power of up to 3000HP as used in Superhawk helicopters. Whether GE would let licence production of that engine be available , is another question though.

Superhawk S92
View attachment 67409

View attachment 67410

Isn't Turkiye working on Ts3000 ?
Since Ts 1400 is ready just approvals than they should work to build engine based on ts1400 with power to 3000hp

 

[Yasar_TR]

Isn't Turkiye working on Ts3000 ?
Since Ts 1400 is ready just approvals than they should work to build engine based on ts1400 with power to 3000hp

I like your optimism.
- TS3000 has been put on the back burner. Not enough workforce and finances. It is the TF35K that has priority at the moment.
- TS1400 is a radial airflow turboshaft. They are best with single or maximum double stages. Currently it is more or less at its limit as far as power level is concerned.
- To achieve more power we need an axial flow turboshaft with multiple stages. One like T700 engine we are building for the Blackhawk program.

 

[Merzifonlu]

@Yasar_TR I have a question for you.

Could there be a meaningful increase in engine power if the TS-1400's hot sector turbine is fed with an axial compressor? Or is it necessary to design a new hot sector turbine to achieve a meaningful power increase?

 

[Yasar_TR]

@Yasar_TR I have a question for you.

Could there be a meaningful increase in engine power if the TS-1400's hot sector turbine is fed with an axial compressor? Or is it necessary to design a new hot sector turbine to achieve a meaningful power increase?

There are certain advantages of having a radial flow turboshaft.

- mechanically simple and compact
- low cost
- low maintenance
- less mechanical and thermal stress
- relatively higher pressure per stage for lower flow rates

are some of them.

But they have limitations. One of the most important limitation is the fact that it is more difficult to control cooling of the hot sections in a radial flow turbine. And of course the maximum number of stages being two is a limiting factor.

In a turboshaft engine the compressor section is driven by the HP turbine. The LP turbine is actually mechanically disconnected from the loop and acts as a free turbine that powers and rotates the shaft. It is called a power turbine.

By having multiple axial compressor stages as you suggest, you would have higher airflow through the engine, and you will develop higher power from your power turbine. But since the power turbine and the HP turbines of TS1400 are designed to be compatible with a radial flow compressor set up ; I doubt that you can just install axial compressor stages and expect it to work with a turbine section that is optimised for radial flow. You would need to re design the turbine section.

It should also be remembered that the efficiency rating of radial flow turbines decrease as the power level increases. (as you may have noticed; the ~1150 KW TS1400 is at a sweet spot in terms of efficiency vs power)

 

[Merzifonlu]

@Yasar_TR ; OK. Thank you very much for answer.

 

[Zafer]

Radial flow fans will not give the fine tuned compression ratios you want while axial flow fans will.

 

[Aqerdf]

This was interesting for me, so wanted to share here.

Mr. Akşit said that TS1400's continuous power is 1570 shp multiple times. And interestingly, since last 2-3 months, he mentioned 1600+ shp, but that 1600 shp figure is for continuous power or is it for emergency power, couldn't figure myself.

 

[I_Love_F16]

This was interesting for me, so wanted to share here.

Mr. Akşit said that TS1400's continuous power is 1570 shp multiple times. And interestingly, since last 2-3 months, he mentioned 1600+ shp, but that 1600 shp figure is for continuous power or is it for emergency power, couldn't figure myself.

https://www.tei.com.tr/uploads/docs/1599491452_ts1400turboshaftengine.pdf?1693078442

 

[Huelague]

#ATAKII

April

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1784912931383074861

Ugly as hell!

 

[Cenkcnk]

was shown in a hurry (possible election effect) and no one heard anything ever since.

 

[boredaf]

#ATAKII

April

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1784912931383074861

Unbelievable. This was one of the worst cock ups from TAI and they are sharing a video of it? Just let people forget about it until you are truly ready to show it again ffs.

 

[No Name]

Does Turkey even need a heavy-attack helicopter?

 

[Huelague]

Does Turkey even need a heavy-attack helicopter?

Yes.