TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[chngr]

Before you write such definitive statements, you should investigate and support your claim with valid sources.

Tomahawk | Cruise Missile, History, Uses & Capabilities

Tomahawk, American-made low-flying strategic guided missile that may be launched from naval ships or submarines to strike targets on land. It flies at low altitudes to strike fixed targets, such as communication and air-defense sites, in high-risk environments where manned aircraft may be

www.britannica.com

Quote

The Tomahawk is a long-range, unmanned weapon with an accuracy of about 5 metres (16 feet). The 5.6-metre- (18.4-foot-) long missile has a range of up to approximately 2,400 km (about 1,500 miles) and can travel as fast as 885 km (550 miles) per hour.

Unquote.

Other sources that give this range are:

Missile, Cruise, Ship-launched, Tomahawk BGM-109

This is a flight test version of the Tomahawk, a U.S. Navy long-range, subsonic cruise missile capable of being launched from surface ships and submarines. It flew in four tests from 1976-1978.

airandspace.si.edu

Tomahawk | Missile Threat

The Tomahawk is an intermediate-range, subsonic cruise missile that is launched from U.S. Navy ships and submarines. It provides a long-range, deep strike capability. The Tomahawk can carry either conventional or nuclear payloads, though policy decisions have phased out their nuclear role...

missilethreat.csis.org

Yes there are various versions of it:

Operational range	Block II TLAM-N – 1,350 nmi (1,550 mi; 2,500 km) Block III TLAM-C, Block IV TLAM-E – 900 nmi (1,000 mi; 1,700 km) Block III TLAM-D – 700 nmi (810 mi; 1,300 km)[8] Block IV - 864nmi, 1000+ miles, 1600+ km Block Vb - 900+nmi, 1035+ miles, 1666+ km (exact range is classified)[9] RGM/UGM-109B TASM - 250 miles, 460 km[10]

But in essence it is a 2400 or 2500 km range cruise missile as far as its max range goes. It‘s length varies from 5.56 to 6.25 metres. That means the amount of ammo and fuel it carries will vary and in turn it’s range will be affected. Moreover, US and its other users UK and Australia, will not want real figures to be open to public and to their potential adversaries. And as part of public we have to take the given maximum range as a valid effective range.
Also, since we are discussing the reason of using a turbofan here, it is irrelevant if the range is 1600 or 2400 km. There are versions of it with turbojets and even a ramjet 3mach speed version is being worked on. Some versions have no more than 460km range.

You just not read what your wrote

Block II TLAM-N....Means nuclear warhead version and those retired 10 years ago

5.56 length of missile...and 6.25 with booster

 

[Yasar_TR]

You just not read what your wrote

Block II TLAM-N....Means nuclear warhead version and those retired 10 years ago

5.56 length of missile...and 6.25 with booster

Oh! I have definitely read what I wrote.
But you haven’t read what I have written.
It just means that, with the right length and fuel, it has a potential of 2500km range. That is why a turbofan is a necessity.
just because, due to the limitation of nuclear cruise missiles agreement, the higher range is put on the back burner and stopped being used, doesn’t mean that the missile can’t reach that range. It was built to be a 2500km range missile.
You don’t need to be that contentious.

F16 has a ferry range of 4200+ km with drop tanks.
It has 7000lb internal fuel 5000lb external fuel.
Take out the drop tanks its ferry range will be greatly diminished.
If F16 should use afterburners, then all the range calculations are thrown out of perspective as it can finish its internal tank within 6 minutes at sea level afterburner. (64000lb per hour consumption)
So range figures are arbitrary. But they decide what the air platform’s potentials are.

 

[chngr]

Oh! I have definitely read what I wrote.
But you haven’t read what I have written.
It just means that, with the right length and fuel, it has a potential of 2500km range. That is why a turbofan is a necessity.
just because, due to the limitation of nuclear cruise missiles agreement, the higher range is put on the back burner and stopped being used, doesn’t mean that the missile can’t reach that range. It was built to be a 2500km range missile.
You don’t need to be that contentious.

F16 has a ferry range of 4200+ km with drop tanks.
It has 7000lb internal fuel 5000lb external fuel.
Take out the drop tanks its ferry range will be greatly diminished.
If F16 should use afterburners, then all the range calculations are thrown out of perspective as it can finish its internal tank within 6 minutes at sea level afterburner. (64000lb per hour consumption)
So range figures are arbitrary. But they decide what the air platform’s potentials are.

Missile lengths same that just with or without booster length

Only retired Block II TLAM-N version have 2400km range because its have small nuclear warhead..There is more space for fuel

All of the others 450kg conventional warhead versions's range 1600km or less

 

[Sanchez]

BOZDOĞAN and GÖKDOĞAN Missiles Ready for Acceptance Tests
Prof. Dr. Haluk Görgün, President of SSB: "The design verification tests of our Bozdoğan and Gökdoğan missiles have been completed. We will carry out our tests with warhead ammunition and offer them to the use of our Air Forces."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1745444902673203617

Göktuğ tests continue.

GÖKDOĞAN, our first indigenous and national air-to-air BVR missile developed by TÜBİTAK Defense Industry R&D Institute @SageTubitak, hit the target aircraft with pinpoint accuracy during the capability demonstration firing test activities conducted with the Air Force Command.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1829570358585806988

 

[Strong AI]

beyond-line-of-sight

Beyond-visual-range (BVR), AFAIK only air-to-ground and surface-to-surface missiles are called BLOS.

 

[Sanchez]

Beyond-visual-range (BVR), AFAIK only air-to-ground and surface-to-surface missiles are called BLOS.

Google Translate failed me...

 

[TheInsider]

It seems like the LRIP missiles are delivered to the Air Force.

 

[Isbara]

Beyond-visual-range (BVR), AFAIK only air-to-ground and surface-to-surface missiles are called BLOS.

Afaik, NLos is used for Air to Surface or surface to surface missiles. Non Line of Sight

Spike Nlos for example.

 

[Strong AI]

Afaik, NLos is used for Air to Surface or surface to surface missiles. Non Line of Sight

Spike Nlos for example.

"Beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) propagation is a special case of NLOS often encountered in very long-distance communication links blocked by earth bulge, terrain, or other obstructions. BLOS and NLOS are virtually identical conditions with BLOS being used by the military to describe much the same conditions as NLOS."

Wireless line-of-sight, non-line-of-sight, beyond-line-of-sight propagation | Control Engineering

One of the most important factors in designing a wireless system is how the radio frequency (RF) signals will propagate between the transmitter and | Control Engineering

www.controleng.com

 

[Isbara]

"Beyond-line-of-sight (BLOS) propagation is a special case of NLOS often encountered in very long-distance communication links blocked by earth bulge, terrain, or other obstructions. BLOS and NLOS are virtually identical conditions with BLOS being used by the military to describe much the same conditions as NLOS."

Wireless line-of-sight, non-line-of-sight, beyond-line-of-sight propagation | Control Engineering

One of the most important factors in designing a wireless system is how the radio frequency (RF) signals will propagate between the transmitter and | Control Engineering

www.controleng.com

If I got the article correctly, we use the term "NLOS" for the range of the munition. How further that munition can go is described with the term NLOS.
But the term BLOS is more used for communication. When it comes to communicate with the muniton or data links, updating targets etc, on beyond visiual ranges we use the term BLOS..
Am I right ?

 

[Strong AI]

If I got the article correctly, we use the term "NLOS" for the range of the munition. How further that munition can go is described with the term NLOS.
But the term BLOS is more used for communication. When it comes to communicate with the muniton or data links, updating targets etc, on beyond visiual ranges we use the term BLOS..
Am I right ?

AFAIK both terms are used for communication with the missile. NLOS and BLOS use different methods, because BLOS is used for longer ranges than NLOS.
But i am not a specialist.

 

[BaburKhan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1832844016632647723

I don't know how thrustworthy this Poster are, but is it true that Roketsan is developing a HGV for Cenk MRBM ?

 

[BaburKhan]

AFAIK a HGV needs a Scramjet. Türkiye is developing a Ramjet right now, a Scramjet will take longer to develop.

It's not a hypersonic Cruise Missile, It's a Hypersonic Glide Vehicle. Glide mean it have no own Propulsion. The Missile accelarate the HGV to hypersonic Speeds.

 

[TheInsider]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1832844016632647723

I don't know how thrustworthy this Poster are, but is it true that Roketsan is developing a HGV for Cenk MRBM ?

It is true but this is not an HGV, also don't expect anything in the short term. All of those projects are post-2030.

 

[Afif]

It is true but this is not an HGV, also don't expect anything in the short term. All of those projects are post-2030.

Perhaps if they can start flight testing next year, it could be inducted by 2030. China started flight test with DF-ZF in 2014 and inducted it in 2019. (5 years of testing period)

 

[Strong AI]

It's not a hypersonic Cruise Missile, It's a Hypersonic Glide Vehicle. Glide mean it have no own Propulsion. The Missile accelarate the HGV to hypersonic Speeds.

Looks like i mixed something up.

 

[Sanchez]

I don't know how thrustworthy this Poster are

It is worst of the worst, take anything from that account with a tencere of salt.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Hypersonic Glide Vehicles and the tech behind simplified:

As most of us know well, a hypersonic vehicle is a platform that travels at speeds in excess of 5 times the speed of sound.
But we must not forget that the speed of sound varies with the density of air and the temperature of air in which it travels. So, at sea level and 15degrees Celsius, the speed of sound is 340m/second. Yet at 11000m altitude and minus 55 degrees Celsius, the speed of sound is 295m/second. So Mach numbers at high altitude and low altitude are attributed to different parameters.

A hypersonic glide vehicle, as the name suggests is a glider – it does not have its own propulsion system and is brought to an altitude of around 110-120 kilometres, with the help of a rocket powered missile. After separating from the launch vehicle, it returns back to Earth in a somewhat gliding manner. At high altitude, after the apogee, a hypersonic glide vehicle moves at an initial speed of more than 6,000 metres per second. As there is hardly any air present at that altitude there is no gliding to speak about in spite of the tremendous speeds it is travelling at. But, once the glide vehicle starts reaching 70km and below on it’s downward flight, it starts to get aerodynamic lift. And can start to glide or bounce over the comparatively thicker layers of air. Hence manoeuvre.

Through it’s flight at high altitudes and gliding at lower altitudes the vehicle can cover very large distances, that would put it in the same level of range as an ICBM.

When the glider is separated from the launch vehicle at high altitude it is virtually at free fall as there is no air with no glide effect and over 6000m/second speed. But as it reaches 70km and below it is having to negotiate air resistance. So it is vital that such a trajectory of low air drag is chosen, that the speed is not too low. Below 15km this resistance will increase to such levels that the speed is no more than 1000m or so when the vehicle hits its target.

A 3000kg rocket can take a 1500kg glide vehicle to the operationally high enough altitude. These glide vehicles have to be small enough to be less noticeable by radars. But due to the size and thus the weight limitations, the terminal speed of the vehicle is restricted.
Another challenge a HGV has is that it has to withstand high tip temperatures due to air resistance that are around 1000degrees Celsius. So heat resistant coatings and materials used become more important. To alleviate the heat problem trajectories of heating and cooling-down phases are applied.

Due to their extremely high speeds until the very last moments, the HGVs are most difficult to be intercepted by anti missile systems. Ground radar stations are capable of detecting small projectiles at around 300 kilometres. Most likely, however, the course of the trajectory cannot be determined because “most” of today’s radar systems only ensure tracking of an object for speeds of less than 1,000 metres per second and a predetermined trajectory.

Weight of the platform is important in its terminal speed. A 105 ton ICBM can hit the target at 3500m/second speed as it still carries a lot of weight even after expending all of its fuel.

 

[Strong AI]

Hypersonic and Ballistic Tracking Space Sensor Satellites | Northrop Grumman

Hypersonic and Ballistic Tracking Space Sensor satellites will provide continuous tracking and enable handoff for targeting of enemy missiles.

www.northropgrumman.com

 

[UkroTurk]

How are the hypersonic glides guided?