TR Propulsion Systems

[Spitfire9]

... if they fail to buy American Engines for block 1/2 of Kaan, they will be out of many options. If American engines are out of the window, there are only 2 capable engines where Turkey may look, South Korea and Chinese WS engines, which i personally think they will not choose to go with Chinese engines.

As far as I know South Korea is hoping to develop an engine with similar thrust to GE F414 by 2035. That would not be sufficient thrust for the engine to be used in Kaan.

What changes would be needed for TF35K to become a 5G engine? Why take on a much more demanding development challenge when the priority is to gain security of supply for an engine for Kaan? If Turkiye opts to take the 5G route and in 2030/2031/2032 finds itself with no engines to put in production frames, it will have no-one to blame but its own planners.

I have no insight into the political risk of use of F110 in Kaan being denied, so my reservations about going for 5G development may be unfounded. However, I think it possible that the US will continue tightening measures against countries dealing with Russia, Turkiye being one of them.

 

[Strong AI]

What changes would be needed for TF35K to become a 5G engine?

???
TF35K (maybe it will be TF38K) will be already a 5G engine.

 

[TR_123456]

I have no insight into the political risk of use of F110 in Kaan being denied, so my reservations about going for 5G development may be unfounded. However, I think it possible that the US will continue tightening measures against countries dealing with Russia, Turkiye being one of them.

It has nothing to do with Russia,its complicated and to much for me to explain.
As long as you know that we dont have another choice but develop our own engine(s).

 

[zio]

If Baykar funds this, we will have a national engine for Hurkus as well.(Our very own PT-6)

If Baykar doesn't fund this though, I don't think there will be a turboprop engine derived from TS-1400 in the near future. Mr. Aksit mentioning this for a long time (He said they aimed for a 1400 shp output for a future turboprop derivative that powers Hurkus) but there doesn't seem to be a demand for it. (Which kinda make sense considering the availability of PT-6)

Interesting development, if true.

We are a bit late for a turboprop engine from TS1400,it should have been started a few years ago, and we are too late to start TS3000 project.When we start we finished it,no failure until now.We also have to start marine big diesel engines.

 

[Spitfire9]

???
TF35K (maybe it will be TF38K) will be already a 5G engine.

My bad. I was thinking of 6G engines, not 5G engines.

 

[Zoth]

As far as I know South Korea is hoping to develop an engine with similar thrust to GE F414 by 2035. That would not be sufficient thrust for the engine to be used in Kaan.

What changes would be needed for TF35K to become a 5G engine? Why take on a much more demanding development challenge when the priority is to gain security of supply for an engine for Kaan? If Turkiye opts to take the 5G route and in 2030/2031/2032 finds itself with no engines to put in production frames, it will have no-one to blame but its own planners.

I have no insight into the political risk of use of F110 in Kaan being denied, so my reservations about going for 5G development may be unfounded. However, I think it possible that the US will continue tightening measures against countries dealing with Russia, Turkiye being one of them.

TF35000 won't be made out of thin air, it has no possibility to fail but only get delayed.

TF35000 will be made out of TF-10000 engine which is already in design and in production-test phase.

I know me saying " has no possibility to fail" is over exaggerating, but once you already have capabilities and industry to design and test fire more than 60 times successfully an engine like tf-6000, the rest is only matter of when and not matter of if.

 

[Saithan]

I don't understand the mindset of people thinking it's too late to develop an engine for e.g. Hürkus, Atak, pt6 type engine.

So we should just give up because someone else beat us to it. Don't bother because the others are better. You know TN had to struggle because of that kind of mindset and today we can be proud of their achievements.

We've said it several times here, but people still fall back to that mindset.

 

[Zafer]

We know that TEI are working on a 3000hp turboshaft engine but what we don't know is if they will be working on a turboprop from that engine too.

 

[byzero]

General Electric is working on a very efficient 3000 HP turboshaft engine that uses ceramic maxris composite and eutectic materials. Tei is working on these materials but still does not have the knowledge to use them in an engine, so it will not be very efficient for Tei to produce a 3000 HP engine.

 

[Zafer]

General Electric is working on a very efficient 3000 HP turboshaft engine that uses ceramic maxris composite and eutectic materials. Tei is working on these materials but still does not have the knowledge to use them in an engine, so it will not be very efficient for Tei to produce a 3000 HP engine.

TEI's engine doesn't need to be cutting edge, it is OK if it is even comparable to GE's existing engine which I guess there isn't one in that power class. Who even needs to compare ones own work to somebody else's foreign work.

 

[byzero]

Ukraine has a 2500 HP turboshaft engine. I think it is not difficult to produce it in Turkey with a license agreement. In fact, with the technological capabilities it has, it can increase the power of this engine by 30.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Ukraine has a 2500 HP turboshaft engine. I think it is not difficult to produce it in Turkey with a license agreement. In fact, with the technological capabilities it has, it can increase the power of this engine by 30.

It would make it more intelligible if in your post you clarified which “it” you are talking about.
Iam guessing that you mean, with the technological capability of Turkey, we can even increase power to 3000HP ???

We have discussed these issues in previous pages many times over. The so called 2500HP Ukranian engine, if memory serves, doesn’t even have FADEC. Also it is far from providing the necessary power our armed forces are expecting. The technology it uses is Soviet era and nowhere near that is commensurate with a modern helicopter like T929. Besides with all the recent bombing the Ukranian factory is not in a position to supply any engines.

TEI already produces a 2000HP class engine under license, namely, T700TEI700D . This is the Turkish version of the famous T700 produced by GE. Same engine has a version with 3000HP output power. There is a clause in our license agreement that allows us to make changes to the engine with GE’s consent. All we have to do is to activate that clause and of course prolong the license agreement.

Alternatively if we can allocate financial, and more importantly, Human Resources to the project, so that we can design and produce this engine ourselves. But that will take in excess of 6 years before it can be flying the serial production helicopters.

 

[byzero]

We are interpreting the issue technically, but if Turkey has the chance to produce advanced US-made engines under license for domestic attack helicopters, the decision to buy old-tech turboshaft engines from Ukraine is not a technical choice, but a political one. The SSB and other authorities probably think that the US Congress will make a problem.