TR Air Defence Programs

[Radko]

Do we count the effective range or do we count the ballistic range as the Russians do?

1- Russians don't count the ballistic range, you can actually find the diagrams for their missiles

2- Well, Siper B2 is bigger than the SM-6 but also weights less, they claim 240-400km for SM-6 so I don't think that it unreasonable to expect something like this from Siper B2

 

[uçuyorum]

1- Russians don't count the ballistic range, you can actually find the diagrams for their missiles

2- Well, Siper B2 is bigger than the SM-6 but also weights less, they claim 240-400km for SM-6 so I don't think that it unreasonable to expect something like this from Siper B2

At that point the limitation is the kill chain, that is communication and sensors rather than propulsion. Hisar missiles were also given increased range after seeker improvements.

 

[Radko]

At that point the limitation is the kill chain, that is communication and sensors rather than propulsion. Hisar missiles were also given increased range after seeker improvements.

Indeed, and that's why ASELSAN is working on new missile seekers (big AESA seeker for Siper B2 and smaller ones for Gökhan and G/M-1)

Also, it is important to note that ASELSAN is currently working on radars with performance or doctrine never seen in TAF before. ALP-600G is a building-radar. (I don't exactly know the terminology, but they are radars as big as buildings, not radars on top of a building but radars being the building itself)

These building-radars are used for satellite and ballistic missile tracking by the US and Russia. Don-2N, Daryal, Dnepr, Voronezh, AN/FPS-85/115/132, LRDR etc.

ALP-500G (mounted on top of a building):

ALP-600G (building-radar):

 

[Afif]

2- Well, Siper B2 is bigger than the SM-6

Physical Specs for SIPER B2?

 

[Radko]

Physical Specs for SIPER B2?

420mm diameter, 6.3m (without booster),

 

[Anmdt]

420mm diameter, 6.3m (without booster),

Someone was talking about a dual pack huh?

Indeed, and that's why ASELSAN is working on both new missile seekers (big AESA seeker for Siper B2 and smaller ones for Gökhan and G/M-1)

Also, it is important to note that ASELSAN is currently working on radars with performance or doctrine never seen in TAF before. ALP-600G is a building-radar. (I don't exactly know the terminology, but they are radars as big as buildings, not radars on top of a building but radars being the building itself)

These building-radars are used for satellite and ballistic missile tracking by the US and Russia. Don-2N, Daryal, Dnepr, Voronezh, AN/FPS-85/115/132, LRDR etc.

ALP-500G (mounted on top of a building): View attachment 71812
View attachment 71813

ALP-600G (building-radar):
View attachment 71814
View attachment 71815

This is a good point, ALP-600G or ALP-500G is not the SEIRS. I will bet on ALP-500G being a portable high altitude radar from its size. Even a dual-band radar.

 

[Radko]

Someone was talking about a dual pack huh?


This is a good point, ALP-600G or ALP-500G is not the SEIRS. I will bet on ALP-500G being a portable high altitude radar from its size. Even a dual-band radar.

500G could be the Turkish TPY-2, given it's size and shape

 

[Sanchez]

Someone was talking about a dual pack huh?


This is a good point, ALP-600G or ALP-500G is not the SEIRS. I will bet on ALP-500G being a portable high altitude radar from its size. Even a dual-band radar.

"With the aim of taking the defense power of the Turkish Armed Forces to the highest level thanks to the stage reached and the knowledge gained in the ALP-300G, and in line with the decision of the Defense Industry Executive Committee, the development of the ALP-500G Fixed Early Warning Radar System, the largest member of the early warning radar family to date, has been initiated. Beyond being just a radar, the ALP-500G stands out as an integrated sensor solution with its own building and a dome radome infrastructure, which will be designed and produced nationally for the first time. The ALP-500G will have a capability far beyond existing early warning radars in terms of detection range performance."

Aselsan 2023 official report calls 500G SEİRS. Page 115. https://wwwcdn.aselsan.com/api/file/ASELSAN_2023_FAALIYET_RAPORU_20240530.pdf

Only image we have for it so far from Aselsan's instagram account. Interestingly calls it transportable via trucks and aircraft, but from what else is said about it, it will only be deployed on fixed locations:

 

[TheInsider]

I am wondering if SIPER block 3 can be integrated seamlessly with existing C2 and sensor architecture like block 2 is supposed to be. In this way TUrAF and potential export operators can gain ABM capability just by procuring the interceptor. @TheInsider

Yes and no. Any friendly nation might buy Siper 3 and use it with existing batteries but to take advantage of its full capabilities Aselsan YIRAD (High Altitude radar) is needed at the minimum. Turkiye also plans to deploy space-based sensors after 2030 to further improve effectiveness of the system.

BTW according to dimensions shared Siper-1 (235mm diameter without booster, 370mm with booster) can be quadpacked if a new booster is designed. I think using the booster of Atmaca was a good call as a stop-gap solution but Roketsan should design a new booster for Siper-1 with a diameter smaller than 254mm. Efficient use of VLS cells is very important. I class ships can carry 8x4 Hisar, 4x4 Siper-1 and 4x Gezgin as a standard combat load.

 

[Anmdt]

"With the aim of taking the defense power of the Turkish Armed Forces to the highest level thanks to the stage reached and the knowledge gained in the ALP-300G, and in line with the decision of the Defense Industry Executive Committee, the development of the ALP-500G Fixed Early Warning Radar System, the largest member of the early warning radar family to date, has been initiated. Beyond being just a radar, the ALP-500G stands out as an integrated sensor solution with its own building and a dome radome infrastructure, which will be designed and produced nationally for the first time. The ALP-500G will have a capability far beyond existing early warning radars in terms of detection range performance."

Aselsan 2023 official report calls 500G SEİRS. Page 115. https://wwwcdn.aselsan.com/api/file/ASELSAN_2023_FAALIYET_RAPORU_20240530.pdf

Only image we have for it so far from Aselsan's instagram account. Interestingly calls it transportable via trucks and aircraft, but from what else is said about it, it will only be deployed on fixed locations:

View attachment 71820

Yes but on the other hand images show 500G as something similar to AN-TPY2

 

[Kaan Azman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1854239293352685831

SİPER Product 1 integration on MİDLAS will take place this year, single cell configuration developed for OPVs and off-topic but submarine MİDLAS is confirmed to be under development for MİLDEN.

 

[zio]

Aselsan 35mm atom and aselsan 25mm atom….I hope next would be, canik 30/113mm,ermeksan 40/70mm,or mke 76mm.

 

[Huelague]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1854239293352685831

SİPER Product 1 integration on MİDLAS will take place this year, single cell configuration developed for OPVs and off-topic but submarine MİDLAS is confirmed to be under development for MİLDEN.

How many cells will our OPV get?

 

[Sanchez]

And here's the VLS variant.

I do like that they are each a single cell. Should be interesting.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1854399817264296437

 

[uçuyorum]

And here's the VLS variant.

I do like that they are each a single cell. Should be interesting.

View attachment 71881

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1854399817264296437

Might be easier for ADA class than hisar and the better option

 

[Sanchez]

Might be easier for ADA class than hisar and the better option

If it was with Gökdoğan instead..

 

[Anmdt]

but submarine MİDLAS is confirmed to be under development for MİLDEN.

It doesn't seem confirmed but deduced by the author. Milden has circular bays for missiles and as far as i know these won't be used for AAW. And these launchers often referred as silo and has special lids and structure to withstand the pressure.

This is like seeing 4x4 Pars and telling 8x8 Pars is based on the chasis of 4x4 Pars.

 

[Anmdt]

And here's the VLS variant.

I do like that they are each a single cell. Should be interesting.

View attachment 71881

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1854399817264296437

Well it still seems to be in stage of 'brain storming). It is useless without stacking, and too much space for a single missile with limited capability. They should at least offer Gökdoğan. Not expecting a booster version as it contradictz the idea of using missile as is.

They should have either made it cold launched or stacked 2/4 missile and attach a single exhaust. The missile is sufficiently compact to allow it.

If it was with Gökdoğan instead..

It should, or Roketsan's single cell version will beat it.

 

[Kaan Azman]

I don't remember implying that MİLDEN will use it for AAW or something and the Manager clearly said MİLDEN in the presentation.

 

[Anmdt]

I don't remember implying that MİLDEN will use it for AAW or something and the Manager clearly said MİLDEN in the presentation.

Well then as far as i know MILDEN uses silo approach and that will be similar to modular launcher used by USN. Because in the long run Turkish Navy wants to launch more than just Gezgin.

I don't think you would require a VLS design similar to MILDAS for submarine launched missiles.