TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Yasar_TR]

If it had been realistic to produce around 160–170 Özgür-II upgrades by 2028/29 and bring the majority of the F-16 fleet up to this standard in a timely manner, there would have been no need for Eurofighters as an interim solution from Qatar, Oman or the UK.

That is not quite correct. F16V70 and “Typhoon Tranche-3 and newer” are not in the same league. Typboons are much more potent fighting machines with better RCS and as air superiority fighter-jets they are miles ahead of the US plane. The only thing that will bridge KAAN to F16s are planes like Typhoons. Just check out @Sanchez ’s post regarding our pilots’ reaction to Qatar’s Typhoons and Rafales when they confronted them with our f16s.

F16 with SABR AN/APG-83 radar is a compromise. It is set up so that it will give F16 an AESA radar to improve on the current system. Same is the case for Murad to a certain degree.
Typhoon can supercruise at 1.5 Mach. It can go as high as 68000ft. Operational altitude is 55000+ft.
ECRS radars are in a different league with over 1600 T/R modules. (Especially the MK2 version with EW)
Twin engines in total can develop 31000lbf dry thrust in war setting for short periods and 27000lbf dry thrust continuous. (F16 can only manage 17700lbf dry thrust)

I can go on and on. But in short they are much more potent planes. We needed them.
KE and Anka-3 would. Not fill in the gap of fire power these planes can provide. Their uses are unique and different.

 

[AlperTunga]

That is not quite correct. F16V70 and “Typhoon Tranche-3 and newer” are not in the same league. Typboons are much more potent fighting machines with better RCS and as air superiority fighter-jets they are miles ahead of the US plane. The only thing that will bridge KAAN to F16s are planes like Typhoons. Just check out @Sanchez ’s post regarding our pilots’ reaction to Qatar’s Typhoons and Rafales when they confronted them with our f16s.

F16 with SABR AN/APG-83 radar is a compromise. It is set up so that it will give F16 an AESA radar to improve on the current system. Same is the case for Murad to a certain degree.
Typhoon can supercruise at 1.5 Mach. It can go as high as 68000ft. Operational altitude is 55000+ft.
ECRS radars are in a different league with over 1600 T/R modules. (Especially the MK2 version with EW)
Twin engines in total can develop 31000lbf dry thrust in war setting for short periods and 27000lbf dry thrust continuous. (F16 can only manage 17700lbf dry thrust)

I can go on and on. But in short they are much more potent planes. We needed them.
KE and Anka-3 would. Not fill in the gap of fire power these planes can provide. Their uses are unique and different.

That's why I have been saying 20 EFs not sufficient. We need to have at least 40, and with the mighty radar Mk2. That is a beast and in EW capability within top 3 (maybe even the best) in the world. Given all the money we are paying for spare parts, training, infrastructure etc. we should increase the number of jets even though they are very expensive.

Regarding F16 modernization: Given that no structural upgrade needed (or should be left out given time constraints) for 40/50 versions, they just need to install the main computer and radar etc. Per jet, this should be doable in 2 weeks. If two groups of technicians work, then we can modernize at least 50 per year. So by end of 2029, we can realistically have 150 modernized F16. But we'd better hurry up.

 

[Khagan1923]

That's why I have been saying 20 EFs not sufficient. We need to have at least 40, and with the mighty radar Mk2. That is a beast and in EW capability within top 3 (maybe even the best) in the world. Given all the money we are paying for spare parts, training, infrastructure etc. we should increase the number of jets even though they are very expensive.

Regarding F16 modernization: Given that no structural upgrade needed (or should be left out given time constraints) for 40/50 versions, they just need to install the main computer and radar etc. Per jet, this should be doable in 2 weeks. If two groups of technicians work, then we can modernize at least 50 per year. So by end of 2029, we can realistically have 150 modernized F16. But we'd better hurry up.

20 newly built + 20 option, possibly 24 from qatar (though who knows after this stupid war if qatar is willing to still part ways with their jets), possibly 12 from oman (to be modernized).

Thats 56-76 Planes.

If Omani and Qatari EF arrive over the next two years and Özgür 2 mod happens in the same timeframe (2028-2030) we would have on hand

36 Tranche 3A+
150-180 F-16TR

All equipped with AESA radars and cutting edge EW.

Depending on what happens with the F-16 deal and F-35 this number could even grow. (40 F-16 Block 70 + possibly 29 kits for Block 50+ on hand?/ 20-40 F-35?)

Even without anything happening on that front. This should serve as a decent gap until the first wings of Kaan achieve IOC.

 

[AlperTunga]

20 newly built + 20 option, possibly 24 from qatar (though who knows after this stupid war if qatar is willing to still part ways with their jets), possibly 12 from oman (to be modernized).

Thats 56-76 Planes.

If Omani and Qatari EF arrive over the next two years and Özgür 2 mod happens in the same timeframe (2028-2030) we would have on hand

36 Tranche 3A+
150-180 F-16TR

All equipped with AESA radars and cutting edge EW.

Depending on what happens with the F-16 deal and F-35 this number could even grow. (40 F-16 Block 70 + possibly 29 kits for Block 50+ on hand?/ 20-40 F-35?)

Even without anything happening on that front. This should serve as a decent gap until the first wings of Kaan achieve IOC.

There will be no F16 or F35 deals with US. Israel won't allow this. I am even not sure we can buy the engines for the first batch of KAANs. We still couldn't get the 1.5bn we paid for F35s. I am astonished that there are some people who are optimistic about this. They should rather pray that the US carriers return straight back after Iran war and Trump suddenly does not decide to do one last favor for his buddy Bibi.

 

[Pokemonte13]

There will be no F16 or F35 deals with US. Israel won't allow this. I am even not sure we can buy the engines for the first batch of KAANs. We still couldn't get the 1.5bn we paid for F35s. I am astonished that there are some people who are optimistic about this. They should rather pray that the US carriers return straight back after Iran war and Trump suddenly does not decide to do one last favor for his buddy Bibi.

F16 Deal has more to do with us than them. We want a lot of concession from them and they want a lot of money in return.

 

[Sanchez]

If it had been realistic to produce around 160–170 Özgür-II upgrades by 2028/29 and bring the majority of the F-16 fleet up to this standard in a timely manner, there would have been no need for Eurofighters as an interim solution from Qatar, Oman or the UK.

Two points. I don't expect those timelines, they will push through 2030s. Further, Özgür-1-2 are huge mod packages; each aircraft will spend at least 2 months at TAI. Air force is already strapped for jets and to meet the very heavy timelines of Özgür they set out also means pulling frontline fighters from service to modernize them. Air force wants to keep the number of airframes that will be tied to mod packages as low as possible, but it also wants to finish the mod package as soon as possible.

Özgürs will be potent fighters and will handle many duties well into 2050s, but they won't be our frontline fighters starting from 2030s. F-16 is a beast, it has done everything we asked of it over the last 35 years, but it is simply too small. F-16 will never be able to unlock the full potential of Murad-100 or FEWS for example. Same applies in our region. 5 years ago F-16 was the most modern and potent fighter Greece had, by 2030 it will be 3rd after F-35 and Rafale. Same for Egypt. It used to be the best they had, now it's second to Rafale. Same for UAE, who's getting Rafales. We also need a high performance, high flying, fast twin engine jet as a stopgap. EF is that.