TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Cabatli_TR]

An image from Arifiye

 

[Ryder]

Honestly cant Turkiye just buy Ukrainian Engines and fit into the Altay along with a Ukrainian transmission.

I know the tank is going to be made from scratch again.

But I feel it would be better as a stop gap solution until the Altay is fully domestically ready or a whole new tank since tanks are going to evolve.

Leos and M60s are already reaching their use by date no matter how many times you modernise them.

 

[Tornadoss]

You know , naming you're self the insider doesnt mean you are right all thr time and that you have the accessibility to every project .
When the president erdogan says that the tank will be produced by bmc then thats it .
All the time we see you and other praising otokar company while otokar it self doesnt care about ssb or anyone else , because if it cars about the turkish army they eill fulfill their requirments , but all what they do is bringing foreign and building stuff .
Now you will act like also bmc doing the same by purchasing the design from israel like vuran and kirpi first gen .
Well bmc listened to the army and they did what they asked for and jirpi two was the answer .
Also we should thank fnss , agreat company which is doing the same building great vehicles with a high rate of dometic parts .
While otokar is focusing on exports market .
Dont get me wrong i am not against otokar all yhe way , in the end they can sit and think , they got everything but they dont want to waste money for the sake of turkey .
But people like you making it worse.
In the end you can talk what ever you want and as much as you can until 2023 .
Until 2023 tank project will be bmc project until the people in charge say something else .

SSB could put the locality rate as a requirement, then let the companies decide whether to make an offer or not. When BMC got the contract there was no national engine and powerpack around, they even partnered with Rheinmetall for the production. I am not sure how exactly BMC wasting money compared to Otokar. They got the Tank Palet Fabrikası, they got land free of charge to build a factory.

 

[TheInsider]

I think what should be done is to launch a new main battle tank project today. Produce something like 50 Altays while the new project is maturing. Extensively upgrade Leos and Sabras as an interim solution.

The tank should be manned 2 or 3 crews probably 3. Less crew means smaller internal volume which will translate to a smaller and lighter tank. Go for an Autoloader and a compact unmanned turret. Those two changes alone will make the tank much lighter, around 50 tonnes i would say rather than 65. Put a 1200-1250hp powerpack which means an excellent 24-25hp/tonne ratio. A high weight-to-power ratio means extra power that can be allocated for all the gadgets. Integration of a hybrid powerpack should also be taken into account. A UAV dock is a must today and a lithium-Ion battery pack to feed the electronics for the silent mode.

This tank should be fully networked. The higher echelon should see how much ammo, how much fuel, and the exact location of each tank has inside a unit. They should be able to send written orders and send mission drawings in NATO format that are drawn on the digital map. Every unit should be able to see the locations of friends and enemies on the digital map. Missions and movements of friendly units should also be available.

 

[Philips]

I think what should be done is to launch a new main battle tank project today. Produce something like 50 Altays while the new project is maturing. Extensively upgrade Leos and Sabras as an interim solution.

The tank should be manned 2 or 3 crews probably 3. Less crew means smaller internal volume which will translate to a smaller and lighter tank. Go for an Autoloader and a compact unmanned turret. Those two changes alone will make the tank much lighter, around 50 tonnes i would say rather than 65. Put a 1200-1250hp powerpack which means an excellent 24-25hp/tonne ratio. A high weight-to-power ratio means extra power that can be allocated for all the gadgets. Integration of a hybrid powerpack should also be taken into account. A UAV dock is a must today and a lithium-Ion battery pack to feed the electronics for the silent mode.

This tank should be fully networked. The higher echelon should see how much ammo, how much fuel, and the exact location of each tank has inside a unit. They should be able to send written orders and send mission drawings in NATO format that are drawn on the digital map. Every unit should be able to see the locations of friends and enemies on the digital map. Missions and movements of friendly units should also be available.

That is Altay T3

 

[Spook]

Honestly cant Turkiye just buy Ukrainian Engines and fit into the Altay along with a Ukrainian transmission.

Not ideal for Altay. Maybe Firtina 2.

 

[Ryder]

Not ideal for Altay. Maybe Firtina 2.

How about a stop gap solution?

Whats the point Turkey does not have an unlimited military budget to throw money around.

 

[Ecderha]

Who thought Germany would be so foolish to embargo an ally that was planning to buy 1000 tank powerpacks? The Germans shot themselves in the foot. Not only did they lose their biggest tank customer they had since the end of the cold war, they gained a competitor.

Remember, they can only delay Turkey, not stop it.

I can agree with you in present day.
\ But you forget ONE fundametal thing back then -> They (usa, germany, netherland, france, austria partally uk and canada) want it to STOP Turkiye.Why ?

They see that Turkiye want to be independent and they thought we don't see that Turkiye can do it. So lets use the situation and punish Turkiye.

-In Syria, Russian focused to bomb only Turkish minority people i am talking about only specific region
- bomb attacks in Turkiye
- partial civil war in east Turkiye, each week policemen,soldiers,citizan working on reginal agency were killed inside Turkiye by PKK,YPG
- pseudo Allies systematically were twisting Turkiye hands by delaying anything.
-west media start brutal campain against Turkiye. news with retarded lies, trolling etc.....

They tought that Turkiye will fall and it will fall really deep. In short time frame it were real pain for Turkiye



in Present days we can see in Fact that they lost.

My hope is that -> Turkiye use any opportunity to make pseudo allies to pay for next couple of years in the same dirty and brutal way that they did.
Just play nice face on front of media but in back ground make them to cry.

At end of the day everybody have to get what they want it or did

 

[Spook]

How about a stop gap solution?

Whats the point Turkey does not have an unlimited military budget to throw money around.

Tank design would had to be revised? Why go all that trouble for an engine that doesn't even fit requirements while developing an better alternative. Better off wait.

Firtina 2 is more suitable for interim engine.

 

[Stuka]

Fuat Tosyali. New owner of BMC

 

[Stimpy75]

No you weren't...so plz keep these kind of things out of serious threads and stay on topic

 

[comolokko]

it would be a huge mistake (autonomous and intelligent electronic warfare systems) to invest in this project at a time when wars are changing shape.

 

[Stuka]

Is he better than Ethem Sancak?

A Difficult Question to be honest. This Family is quite Connected and they are from Iskenderun, Hatay.
Tosyali was established in the 1950s. And Fuat Tosyali´s brother Mehmet Tosyali is even the Governor of Iskenderun.

Here is his speech from the visit of BMC Plant in Arifiye (Tank Palet):

BMC Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı Tosyalı: "İnşallah BMC'nin gücünü dünyaya göstereceğiz"

- In the Begining, he gives a very generic Speech about wanting to improve the Technology investment even further and says we will show BMCs abilities to the World.

- But towards the End he makes very important statements about the Defence department.
1. He says that BMC needs R&D which is Expensive but they have the Financial Resources and Financial Thinking for it.
2. They will Collaborate with as many Institutions as Possible.
3. He wants BMC to have a Healthy growth.
4. He promises the Staff that they will talk further later and they are going to share there know-hows with each other.

---

About Tosyali Holding:

BMC has an additional 2850 Employees + BMC Power with ~ 250 and + ~ 600 Arifiye Personnel.

---

Ranking wise in 2020

- 16th Largest with one of their Companies.
- That jumped 8 Ranks between 2019 - 2020

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Future:

Tosyalı Holding, Avrupa’nın en hızlı büyüyen ikinci çelik üreticisi oldu

Dünya Çelik Birliği’nin açıkladığı verilere göre, Tosyalı Holding 2020 yılında, ham çelik üretimini bir önceki yıla göre yüzde 10,49 artırarak Avrupa’nın en hızlı büyüyen ikinci ham çelik üreticisi oldu.

www.dunya.com

Tosyalı Holding became the second fastest growing steel producer in Europe​

According to the 2020 world crude steel production figures announced by the World Steel Association every year, Tosyalı Holding increased its crude steel production from 3.91 million tons in 2019 to 4.32 million tons in 2020 with an increase of 10.49 percent. moved up from 84th to 82nd place. The company was also the second fastest growing steel producer in Europe.​

We have never stopped our investments that have brought us to this point. As Tosyalı Holding, we will increase our total production much higher when our ongoing 4th phase investments in Iskenderun 2nd Organized Industrial Zone (OSB) and Algeria are completed. I believe that with these investments, all of which focus on value-added steel production, we will move our place higher in the world ranking.” he said.

Tosyalı Holding'in İskenderun'daki 2.5 milyar dolarlık tesisinde sona yaklaşıldı! - 16-04-2021

Tosyalı Holding tarafından İskenderunda inşa edilen 2,5 milyar dolarlık yassı çelik üretim fabrikasının büyük bölümü tamamlandı.

emlakkulisi.com

Sarıseki Plant, which will initially produce from scrap, will produce steel from the mine in the medium term. The facility, whose total investment size will reach 2.5 billion dollars, will produce 4 million tons of flat steel annually and provide direct employment to 1,300 people when it is put into operation.

The plant, whose investment continues, will meet half of Turkey's flat steel imports, in other words, its annual imports of 4 billion dollars. With this facility, Tosyalı Holding's consolidated production will reach 10 million tons per year. With this figure, Tosyalı will become one of the largest manufacturers not only in Turkey but also in the entire region.

 

[Siper>MMU]

So we can say Tosyalı will be better for BMC ?

 

[Stuka]

So we can say Tosyalı will be better for BMC ?

Depends.
Is Tosyali the one that is going to be pulling the Strings ?
I mean Ethem Sancak was definitely not the one pulling strings at BMC. As matter of Fact there isn't a Single Pic with Ethem at any BMC plant.

Look at the new CEO that has been appointed to BMC. Murat Yalcintas. He is a founding member of AK Party.

AK PARTİ

www.akparti.org.tr

> Do you think Fuat Tosyali really appointed him ?

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But I am hopeful because Murat Yalcintas has a impressive CV

He was born in 1965 in Istanbul.

He graduated from Saint Joseph French High School for Boys. After graduating from Boğaziçi University's Faculty of Mechanical Engineering, he completed his master's degree in International Business at Boston University.

Then he worked as a specialist researcher in Brussels for 2 years in the EU. He worked as a project specialist in an international development bank for 3 years. Then he returned to Turkey and continued his activities as an entrepreneur in the private sector.

Foundry found companies in the heating-ventilation and telecommunication sectors. He is still the Chairman of the Istanbul Chamber of Commerce (ITO).

Yalçıntaş is fluent in English and French, intermediate in German and Arabic. He is married and has 3 children.

Here he is at the European Parliament 2012

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Altınay TAAC Actuators for main battle tanks and howitzers

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Mast closed and open config for Turkish tanks

 

[Huelague]

Who thought Germany would be so foolish to embargo an ally that was planning to buy 1000 tank powerpacks? The Germans shot themselves in the foot. Not only did they lose their biggest tank customer they had since the end of the cold war, they gained a competitor.

Remember, they can only delay Turkey, not stop it.

1000 tank powerpacks? We want to buy 1000 tanks at the whole 20 years ago and the said, NEIN!

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415643920684421124

2000 120 mm tank ammunition will be ordered.

 

[Hexciter]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415643920684421124

2000 120 mm tank ammunition will be ordered.

…have been ordered.