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B_A

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Turkiye will most likely overtake UK and France within the next 2-3 years. Turkiye's 2023 growth was adjusted upwards to 4.2%, while France and UK are standing still if not shrinking.
I've found this IMF GDP PPP estimates made on April 11. I scaled them by China on the fourth column and by Türkiye on the fifth column. I see that while Türkiye holds the 11th position now, 8th place is not very far away. I think we may see that in 5 years.

1​
33,014,998​
100.0​
924.1​
2​
26,854,599​
81.3​
751.7​
3​
13,033,443​
39.5​
364.8​
4​
6,456,527​
19.6​
180.7​
5​
5,545,656​
16.8​
155.2​
6​
4,988,829​
15.1​
139.6​
7​
4,398,729​
13.3​
123.1​
8​
4,020,381​
12.2​
112.5​
9​
3,872,729​
11.7​
108.4​
10​
3,846,931​
11.7​
107.7​
11​
3,572,551​
10.8​
100.0​
12​
3,195,548​
9.7​
89.4​
13​
3,125,902​
9.5​
87.5​
14​
2,924,038​
8.9​
81.8​
15​
2,385,124​
7.2​
66.8​
16​
2,363,535​
7.2​
66.2​
17​
2,300,967​
7.0​
64.4​
18​
1,803,584​
5.5​
50.5​
19​
1,718,097​
5.2​
48.1​
20​
1,710,399​
5.2​
47.9​
21​
1,705,282​
5.2​
47.7​
22​
Iran
1,691,819​
5.1​
47.4​
23​
1,591,402​
4.8​
44.5​
24​
1,582,988​
4.8​
44.3​
25​
1,475,164​
4.5​
41.3​
26​
1,450,805​
4.4​
40.6​
27​
1,372,624​
4.2​
38.4​
28​
1,290,947​
3.9​
36.1​
29​
1,289,281​
3.9​
36.1​
30​
1,274,807​
3.9​
35.7​
31​
1,230,823​
3.7​
34.5​
32​
1,014,978​
3.1​
28.4​
33​
990,030​
3.0​
27.7​
34​
890,171​
2.7​
24.9​
35​
783,903​
2.4​
21.9​
36​
774,472​
2.3​
21.7​
37​
766,025​
2.3​
21.4​
38​
757,726​
2.3​
21.2​
39​
752,831​
2.3​
21.1​
40​
712,023​
2.2​
19.9​
41​
652,597​
2.0​
18.3​
42​
630,387​
1.9​
17.6​
43​
452,996​
1.4​
12.7​
44​
620,971​
1.9​
17.4​
45​
595,599​
1.8​
16.7​
46​
444,194​
1.3​
12.4​
47​
Iraq
560,307​
1.7​
15.7​
48​
Peru
556,680​
1.7​
15.6​
49​
544,735​
1.6​
15.2​
50​
536,906​
1.6​
15.0​
51​
533,992​
1.6​
14.9​
52​
460,130​
1.4​
12.9​
53​
432,489​
1.3​
12.1​
54​
426,941​
1.3​
12.0​
55​
418,113​
1.3​
11.7​
If we stable the lira and stop the current account deficit.

Turkey will be a developed countries in short period.

In many terms UK and Italy and spain not better than us.
 

Agha Sher

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That will be the time that the Greeks will make a move, at the "suggestion" of their fellow advisers(!).

Tbh no. GDP PPP does not mean much for a country the size of Turkiye which is very dependent on energy imports and imports of high tech goods.

Turkiye's GDP nominal is still way to small to be a threat to Europeans powers.
 

B_A

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Tbh no. GDP PPP does not mean much for a country the size of Turkiye which is very dependent on energy imports and imports of high tech goods.

Turkiye's GDP nominal is still way to small to be a threat to Europeans powers.
Because the unstable of lira I think the real Turkish Gdp per capita is a average of PPP and nominal

That s about 18000-22000 usd
 

Afif

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That's not how it works unfortunately.
 

UkroTurk

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IMF GDP PPP estimates made on April 11. I scaled them by China on the fourth column and by Türkiye on the fifth column. I see that while Türkiye holds the 11th position now, 8th place is not very far away. I think we may see that in 5 years.
PPP! Standards of livings is just illusion .

You cannot import fighters , weapons,energy or raw materials by PPP!
You can not Export your products by PPP.

 

Yasar_TR

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What is a more useful measure to judge a nation's economy: GDP (nominal) or GDP (PPP) :
Well, it depends on the situation and what you are trying to measure:
  • For year-over-year growth comparisons, always go with PPP.
  • For countries where economic activity is mostly domestic (e.g. China and India), PPP is the way to go when you are comparing relative size.
  • For countries like Turkey whose economies heavily rely on imports and exports of goods and intermediate products, nominal might be a better measure.
For the record, Turkey is classified as a developed country.
But its economy is on a knife edge due to geopolitical situation it is in and mis management of its finances.
Turkey is also a country where there is a huge black economy. By some sources it is as much as a third -if not more- of the registered economy it self. That is another 1.5trillion dollars in PPP terms.
Black economy is a valid entity even in well regulated countries too. But in countries like Turkey it is rife.
A point that is important to know is the fact that Purchasing Power Parity is calculated by the data given by the countries’ economic offices. This can be manipulated easily and quite often may not reflect the real situation.
 
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Rodeo

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I prepared a table of Turkiye's GDP in 5 years intervals with the ranking and the population of the country. We reached the peak in 2013 with 16th place and it continued for two more years. Thereafter, it's downhill. And that is while continually growing in population.

(1970 and 1975 is from UN, the rest is from IMF data)
YEARGDP(Nominal $ bn)World RankingPopulation(millions)
197024.42034.7
197562.718( ↑2 )39.1(+4.4mil)
198096.621( ↓3 )43.9(+4.8mil)
198592.822( ↓1 )49.2(+5.3mil)
1990207.519( ↑3 )54(+4.8mil)
1995233.624( ↓5 )58.5(+4.5mil)
2000274.321( ↑3 )63.2(+4.7mil)
200550617( ↑4 )67.7(+4.5mil)
2010776.61772.1(+4.4mil)
201586416( ↑1 )77.7(+5.6mil)
202072020( ↓4 )83.6(+5.9mil)
2022905.519( ↑1 )85.3(+1.7mil)
 

dBSPL

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The CBRT blew up Citibank' short positions. lol


Meanwhile, a very sharp sales wave came in the stock market. After the interest rate decision, volatility increased excessively and after short selling positions were exploded, the direction of the stock market was sharply downward.

After the election, the markets, which had a serious rally with a 70% increase in TRY value until the second week of August, have experienced a price correction of around 5% in the last week. These corrections are expected to last until the medium-term economic programme in September and the stock market is in a process of accumulation and therefore overbought technical indicators may cool down.

With the interest rate decision above expectations, the Banks index increased by over 8% (no surprise for me, I had taken a position accordingly). Strong trends usually start with banks and are supported by holding and large industrial papers. On the other hand, banks were the reason why the sharp decline in the stock market today seemed lower on the basis of basic indices. Shares on the sideboards, and energy stocks, which are very popular among the public at the moment, lost serious blood.

In addition, the sharp decline in the dollar caused the BIST-100 index to jump in dollar terms. Reaching the $290 level, if the index can climb to the $300 level, the new target will be the $320 which we dont seen last 5 years.

In summary, there is not a very negative atmosphere in the markets, high inflation and positive expectations in the 3rd quarter balance sheets are among the reasons that support this atmosphere.
 
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Zafer

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I prepared a table of Turkiye's GDP in 5 years intervals with the ranking and the population of the country. We reached the peak in 2013 with 16th place and it continued for two more years. Thereafter, it's downhill. And that is while continually growing in population.

(1970 and 1975 is from UN, the rest is from IMF data)
YEARGDP(Nominal $ bn)World RankingPopulation(millions)
197024.42034.7
197562.718( ↑2 )39.1(+4.4mil)
198096.621( ↓3 )43.9(+4.8mil)
198592.822( ↓1 )49.2(+5.3mil)
1990207.519( ↑3 )54(+4.8mil)
1995233.624( ↓5 )58.5(+4.5mil)
2000274.321( ↑3 )63.2(+4.7mil)
200550617( ↑4 )67.7(+4.5mil)
2010776.61772.1(+4.4mil)
201586416( ↑1 )77.7(+5.6mil)
202072020( ↓4 )83.6(+5.9mil)
2022905.519( ↑1 )85.3(+1.7mil)
Totally depends on exchange rate which can fluctuate depending on international politics. You shovel a good interest rate to lenders mouth and currency rate stays low and you seem to look good while you can only produce tomatoes and you are in endless debt. Türkiye has low debt and $33k PPP GDP today while Greece has $32k and sitting on piles of debt. Türkiye is way better today.
 

B_A

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Totally depends on exchange rate which can fluctuate depending on international politics. You shovel a good interest rate to lenders mouth and currency rate stays low and you seem to look good while you can only produce tomatoes and you are in endless debt. Türkiye has low debt and $33k PPP GDP today while Greece has $32k and sitting on piles of debt. Türkiye is way better today.
If become a vassel of American ,they can have 280% debt to gdp without collapse

1692894534491.png
 
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dBSPL

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It is a fact that the fixed wage earners are being crushed under inflation. Especially the situation of those who do not have an asset base among the retired is very sad. High inflation and the difficulty in accessing micro-credit for low-income citizens are seriously straining the living standards of the middle and lower income group. The more ironic part is that they are not even the main segment driving import-based inflation.

In a report I read recently, it seemed certain that the passenger car SCT revenue for 2023 alone would exceed 350 billion liras. One of the biggest tax revenue of the state comes from car sales, probably first one. Due to high inflation and rapid convertibility into cash, the automobile has become the main investment instrument, which is downright absurd, but seems this is OK, for the state.

On a more micro scale, it is possible to see this in the trade of every dollar-based product. A 5 per cent loss of the dollar will return as import volume. This is one of the main problems. Because this has almost become the main investment tool. For this, and if officially erdonomics is left for another spring, the dollar needs to stabilise 'without being suppressed'. The market needs to be convinced of this.

While it is necessary to direct savings to investment, enterprise set-ups or, if there is no such infrastructure, to operate as an investor in existing companies through the BIST in the simplest way, or, to bonds if there is less risk tolerance: As long as we direct it to import-based trade, it will not be easy to rein in this inflation trap. And if you look at the current reports, we will continue to live with high inflation until 2026 at best.

In an environment of high inflation, savings can be invested in foreign currency to prevent them from melting. The stability of the currency may limit the appetite for risk and returns below inflation may limit the impact here. The other issue is to act on import-based goods and commodities. Unless you can limit this path, it is difficult to get results no matter how much you close the first one. Therefore, the government should be careful in its economic policies about which doors to open for savers and which doors to make dangerous. This will determine how soon we will recover or how long we will suffer.

Of course, none of this is investment advice, but the opinion of a layman. I would also like to say that despite these negativities, I expect that we will return to a strong growth performance starting from mid-2024. Production-based growth is our only way out. And this is not only about the steps we will take, the conjuncture is also very favorable for this, and I hope we will not miss this window of opportunity.
 

B_A

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It is a fact that the fixed wage earners are being crushed under inflation. Especially the situation of those who do not have an asset base among the retired is very sad. High inflation and the difficulty in accessing micro-credit for low-income citizens are seriously straining the living standards of the middle and lower income group. The more ironic part is that they are not even the main segment driving import-based inflation.

In a report I read recently, it seemed certain that the passenger car SCT revenue for 2023 alone would exceed 350 billion liras. One of the biggest tax revenue of the state comes from car sales, probably first one. Due to high inflation and rapid convertibility into cash, the automobile has become the main investment instrument, which is downright absurd, but seems this is OK, for the state.

On a more micro scale, it is possible to see this in the trade of every dollar-based product. A 5 per cent loss of the dollar will return as import volume. This is one of the main problems. Because this has almost become the main investment tool. For this, and if officially erdonomics is left for another spring, the dollar needs to stabilise 'without being suppressed'. The market needs to be convinced of this.

While it is necessary to direct savings to investment, enterprise set-ups or, if there is no such infrastructure, to operate as a partner in existing companies through the BIST in the simplest way, to bonds if there is less risk tolerance: As long as we direct it to import-based trade, it will not be easy to rein in this inflation trap. And if you look at the current reports, we will continue to live with high inflation until 2026 at best.

In an environment of high inflation, savings can be invested in foreign currency to prevent them from melting. The stability of the currency may limit the appetite for risk and returns below inflation may limit the impact here. The other issue is to act on import-based goods and commodities. Unless you can limit this path, it is difficult to get results no matter how much you close the first one. Therefore, the government should be careful in its economic policies about which doors to open for savers and which doors to make dangerous. This will determine how soon we will recover or how long we will suffer.

Of course, none of this is investment advice, but the opinion of a layman. I would also like to say that despite these negativities, I expect that we will return to a strong growth performance starting from mid-2024. Production-based growth is our only way out. And this is not only about the steps we will take, the conjuncture is also very favorable for this, and I hope we will not miss this window of opportunity.
I think this 10 years is our last chance to become rich country before population become too old.

At least we are in a better position than China now.

The only problem are the trade deficit and energy import and high tech industry.

We need export TOGG crazy like TB2
 

Rodeo

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Totally depends on exchange rate which can fluctuate depending on international politics. You shovel a good interest rate to lenders mouth and currency rate stays low and you seem to look good while you can only produce tomatoes and you are in endless debt. Türkiye has low debt and $33k PPP GDP today while Greece has $32k and sitting on piles of debt. Türkiye is way better today.
How do you correlate foreign exchange rate and technological development? Is there a country that became prosperous while having higher and higher FX rates and higher inflation? And where do you put price stability in the picture?

Türkiye is way better today.
Compared to what or when? If you mean we are more developed, we can produce more etc, then of course we are better today. It's been decades. Everyone is better. Every country gets more technologically advanced. But if we're speaking relative to other countries(more relatable countries than small Greece), then it's debatable.

The low debt to GDP rate is not necessarily a good thing. It tells you that you either lack the projects to grow or your inability to attract cheap credits for investments. It's the latter and it's not for the lack of want. If we could get the money we would fund the projects and have higher debt to GDP ratio.
 

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How do you correlate foreign exchange rate and technological development? Is there a country that became prosperous while having higher and higher FX rates and higher inflation? And where do you put price stability in the picture?


Compared to what or when? If you mean we are more developed, we can produce more etc, then of course we are better today. It's been decades. Everyone is better. Every country gets more technologically advanced. But if we're speaking relative to other countries(more relatable countries than small Greece), then it's debatable.

The low debt to GDP rate is not necessarily a good thing. It tells you that you either lack the projects to grow or your inability to attract cheap credits for investments. It's the latter and it's not for the lack of want. If we could get the money we would fund the projects and have higher debt to GDP ratio.

I would rather have organic growth than growing on debt.

Not all countries develop technology. Greece for exemple, nada. Same olive, same feta, same donkey, same Onasis, nothing added. Not to stir a debate but good example.

Türkiye has low debt, developed industry, high quality real estates, educated people, developed in all departments. Still 5 more years and we will have a more developed industry provided we keep on course.
 
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Rodeo

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I would rather have organic growth than growing on debt.
Every country grows on debt. You cannot finance your projects with the very little profit you're making in a cut-throat competitive market. That would be like you running on your feet in a race when your rivals have their cars zooming past you.
 

Zafer

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Every country grows on debt. You cannot finance your projects with the very little profit you're making in a cut-throat competitive market. That would be like you running on your feet in a race when your rivals have their cars zooming past you.
Well, there are few prodcuts that we can compete well one of which is drones. And the defence industry is likely to grow a lot bigger. We are doing our own thing there. If you can focus on science and technology you don't need debt. Another 5 years and we can possibly have taken a big leap; from chips and displays to space rockets and all.
 

B_A

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How do you correlate foreign exchange rate and technological development? Is there a country that became prosperous while having higher and higher FX rates and higher inflation? And where do you put price stability in the picture?


Compared to what or when? If you mean we are more developed, we can produce more etc, then of course we are better today. It's been decades. Everyone is better. Every country gets more technologically advanced. But if we're speaking relative to other countries(more relatable countries than small Greece), then it's debatable.

The low debt to GDP rate is not necessarily a good thing. It tells you that you either lack the projects to grow or your inability to attract cheap credits for investments. It's the latter and it's not for the lack of want. If we could get the money we would fund the projects and have higher debt to GDP ratio.
Everyone had low debt to GDP when they are growing.

See the S.Korean and every other rich countries

Japan debt to gdp only grow up suddernly after their economy fail in 1990s

1692898892171.png
 

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