India Historical Indian War History Thread

[Jackdaws]

Neerja Bhanot was senior flight purser on the Empress of the Seas, a Pan Am 747 hijacked at Jinnah International Airport in Karachi by four armed men from the Abu Nidal organization en route to Frankfurt and New York. During a 17-hour ordeal, she helped the three-member cockpit crew escape in order to ground the plane so it could not be flown. Bhanot hid passports of passengers so the hijackers could not determine passenger nationalities. She also managed to open the emergency door assisting a number of passengers to escape from the plane. As the hijackers opened fire on passengers and crew, Neerja Bhanot lost her life shielding three children from bullets.

In 1987, she became the youngest and first woman recipient of the Ashoka Chakra award, India's highest civilian decoration for bravery.

In 2004, the Indian Postal Service issued a stamp in her honor* (https://www.wnsstamps.post/en/stamps/IN036.04)

In 2006 she was awarded the 2006 Special Courage Award by the US Department of Justice. (Read more at Times of India.)

In 2016 a film entitled "Neerja" was released, portraying her herioc life.

Here's the trailer on the movie based on her life

 

[Jackdaws]

To put things in perspective, the Ukrainians have held Russia at bay longer than the Pakistani forces could keep India at bay before they surrendered at Dacca.

 

[Paro]

A thread worth reading on the lies in West Pakistan as East Pakistan was falling. Even after the fall of half of East Pakistan including Jessore as reported by NYT, West Pakistanis were fed lies.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466747747508305922

More or less western propaganda in Ukraine now. But due to more informed netizens, they couldn't pull off a Ukrainian victory as much as Pakistan did.

 

[Nilgiri]

To put things in perspective, the Ukrainians have held Russia at bay longer than the Pakistani forces could keep India at bay before they surrendered at Dacca.

Completely different context and setting.

Ukraine was not in a deep civil war, replete with extreme atrocities (and refugee situation caused by it) for better part of a year preceding it.

Russians are not seen as liberators anywhere....not even in the Russian speaking majority areas to the east of the country.

Rather Ukrainians are signing up in droves to fight against Russia and mount the largest resistance possible under the circumstances.

71 was totally different.

 

[Jackdaws]

Completely different context and setting.

Ukraine was not in a deep civil war, replete with extreme atrocities (and refugee situation caused by it) for better part of a year preceding it.

Russians are not seen as liberators anywhere....not even in the Russian speaking majority areas to the east of the country.

Rather Ukrainians are signing up in droves to fight against Russia and mount the largest resistance possible under the circumstances.

71 was totally different.

True. But the armed forces of Ukraine are putting up quite a fight.

 

[Nilgiri]

Short twitter thread on Sam's younger brother @Jackdaws @crixus @Joe Shearer et al:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532381433922080768

 

[Joe Shearer]

Short twitter thread on Sam's younger brother @Jackdaws @crixus @Joe Shearer et al:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1532381433922080768

Their father was a doctor, so one of the two sons kept up the family profession.

 

[kaykay]

Those who are interested, can read about Operation Rajiv in 1987 on Siachen.

Operation Rajiv - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Nilgiri]

Interesting twitter thread @Joe Shearer @Jackdaws @Paro @Gessler et al.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540002419437752320

 

[Jackdaws]

Interesting for sure. Wish 1965 had as much coverage as 1971.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Interesting for sure. Wish 1965 had as much coverage as 1971.

It has a lot. I can't think of ways in which it falls short.

 

[Jackdaws]

It has a lot. I can't think of ways in which it falls short.

In the popular media, 65 is seldom highlighted the way 71 is.

 

[Joe Shearer]

In the popular media, 65 is seldom highlighted the way 71 is.

Ah yes, there is that. I was looking at the situation as it obtains with regard to military history.

Incidentally, one of our Pakistani friends did something so audacious that I am still stunned by it.

You may have heard of THE definitive history of 65, by General Mahmud Ahmed. It was so eye-wateringly authentic and unbiased that the Pakistan Army, not daring to ban the book of such a senior officer (even though retired) and not willing to let that view go out into the public domain, bought up every copy.

So this guy (you have seen him on PDF, contributing very deep legal articles) had the bare-faced gall to ring up the old man, at home, in Lahore (the guy I'm talking about lives in a large town a bus-ride from Lahore). Initially suspicious, the general cross-examined him at length, seemed to be quite satisfied with his answers, and his transparent interest, and the conversation ended well.

About a week later, our man gets a call from the general, asking where he was. He replied he was at home, and was asked to come to a rendezvous point. The general had travelled to that town all the way from Lahore! They had a very interesting conversation, and then the general pulled out a copy of this impossible-to-get book and presented it to him!

I could have died when I heard this. But that was not the end of it.

Just last month, man posts me a stunning piece of news.

He had asked various second-hand booksellers to look out for a copy of this rare book (a few, a very few, copies had got sold, before the PA stepped in). One of them had rung up to say he had a copy! So this guy tells me, and then checks the book for quality, and buys it - for me - for PKR 10,000!!

Now to get it into the country (and repay the money)........

 

[crixus]

In the popular media, 65 is seldom highlighted the way 71 is.

The only war , with no coverage is 1962 war except battle of Rizangla . I don't know why we always shy from discussing China in our military and intl related discussions .

Except one article written by Ajit Doval

 

[Paro]

In the popular media, 65 is seldom highlighted the way 71 is.

Written by a MOD present here.

 

[Nilgiri]

Interesting for sure. Wish 1965 had as much coverage as 1971.

It has a lot. I can't think of ways in which it falls short.

In my case, 65 always had equal prominence w.r.t 71 in my formative years (my dad was the near singular bridge to most of this, so thats pretty different to popular media in India I suppose, something I am in large part removed from still).

In fact it was nearly a continuous story arc of "Nehru", 62's sober lessons, chavan and shastri, 65 and then 71 with Nehru's daughter.

In fact in our family we hold Shastri in very special high place among the PMs.....given both the impact and significance 65 had....and he did not sully himself in a later political tenure like say IG did quite notoriously.

I think 71 was the "finality" (given it achieved something quite openly discernible) and also harnesses great deal of moral righteousness compared to the preceding 2 wars.....that makes it take the limelight in discourse maybe much more. WW2 takes much more discourse than WW1 for similar reasons in say the western context.

 

[Jackdaws]

Ah yes, there is that. I was looking at the situation as it obtains with regard to military history.

Incidentally, one of our Pakistani friends did something so audacious that I am still stunned by it.

You may have heard of THE definitive history of 65, by General Mahmud Ahmed. It was so eye-wateringly authentic and unbiased that the Pakistan Army, not daring to ban the book of such a senior officer (even though retired) and not willing to let that view go out into the public domain, bought up every copy.

So this guy (you have seen him on PDF, contributing very deep legal articles) had the bare-faced gall to ring up the old man, at home, in Lahore (the guy I'm talking about lives in a large town a bus-ride from Lahore). Initially suspicious, the general cross-examined him at length, seemed to be quite satisfied with his answers, and his transparent interest, and the conversation ended well.

About a week later, our man gets a call from the general, asking where he was. He replied he was at home, and was asked to come to a rendezvous point. The general had travelled to that town all the way from Lahore! They had a very interesting conversation, and then the general pulled out a copy of this impossible-to-get book and presented it to him!

I could have died when I heard this. But that was not the end of it.

Just last month, man posts me a stunning piece of news.

He had asked various second-hand booksellers to look out for a copy of this rare book (a few, a very few, copies had got sold, before the PA stepped in). One of them had rung up to say he had a copy! So this guy tells me, and then checks the book for quality, and buys it - for me - for PKR 10,000!!

Now to get it into the country (and repay the money)........

Which the way the PKR is should be about 2500 odd INR in a couple of weeks.

Pleased get it scanned and sent. And then get please forward me a copy as well.

I did read "From Kargil to the Coup" and even that is quite a fascinating account of 4 rogue generals deciding they will liberate Kashmir.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Which the way the PKR is should be about 2500 odd INR in a couple of weeks.

Pleased get it scanned and sent. And then get please forward me a copy as well.

I did read "From Kargil to the Coup" and even that is quite a fascinating account of 4 rogue generals deciding they will liberate Kashmir.

I am looking desperately for someone to carry it from Sheikhupura to Dubai. A personal friend is in Dubai from the 5th to the 15th, and has already offered to carry the book back to India, and to get it to me thereafter.

The money is not holding things up. Usman knows it will get to him sooner or later, sooner than later. LOL.

 

[Nilgiri]

Another really interesting twitter thread:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544610759694397441

 

[Jackdaws]

On 23rd Kargil Vijay Diwas this is an interesting watch