TR Propulsion Systems

[Combat-Master]

Accessory gear completed by Alp Havacilik for TEI-TS1400 engine

 

[Combat-Master]

Good interview with TEI's Mahmut Aksit

TEI-TS1400
-1400shp continuous power
-1475shp take off power
-1600shp single engine emergency power, one of the last legs of the civil engine certification process
- 400 hours of testing completed so far

 

[Lool]

Good interview with TEI's Mahmut Aksit

TEI-TS1400
-1400shp continuous power
-1475shp take off power
-1600shp single engine emergency power, one of the last legs of the civil engine certification process
- 400 hours of testing completed so far
View attachment 43388

TEI-TS1400 is a good helicopter engine tbh
TEI really outdid themselves in this field; no wonder foreign engine companies are trying to disband any teams that TAI makes since if this trend continues then I expect wuch companies to run out of business in 20 years time

 

[Brokengineer]

TEI-TS1400 is a good helicopter engine tbh
TEI really outdid themselves in this field; no wonder foreign engine companies are trying to disband any teams that TAI makes since if this trend continues then I expect wuch companies to run out of business in 20 years time

I hope they could be able to make 500shp to 3000shp range ts family of turboshaft and turboprop engine may be by doing some tricks a family of turbofan family as well within 10 years.

 

[Saithan]

"We will build the MMU engine in 10-12 years, but it will be a little bigger in diameter, that's what was discussed." said Prof. Akşit. He also said that the TFX body was designed before the engine, which is a flawed approach.

I think that they have turned to RR origin engine because both the development time of the TEI engine is longer and the engine diameter is larger than expected.

I think they are taking a huge risk. It seems that they have not learned a lesson from the Altay disgrace...

Exactly! I fon’t care much for MMU I want Hürjet up and flying that is all that matters. After 30 Hürjet produced I’ll think about MMU.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Mr. M. Faruk Akşit:

"The USA does not sell F22 aircrafts to anyone. We have come to the level that can give the thrust of the engine Raptor aircrafts have. We are confident that we can build a 35,000 pound engine for the National Combat Aircraft."

 

[Merzifonlu]

But with little bit more diameter. And this issue of diameter is being discussed.

 

[Zafer]

But with little bit more diameter. And this issue of diameter is being discussed.

All Russian engines have way more diameter, so what. Being the second best not good enough?

 

[Rodeo]

PD170?
PG50?
TS1400?
TEI should finish these engines first. RR-Kale can make the TFX engine. TEI can be in the manufacturing section of the project, not on development.

Exactly. It's good to be optimistic. And i'm sure we'll get there some day. But TEI should learn to walk before running. First, finish the existing projects. Create an engine family. Earn some money, then we'll talk about 35000 lb, state of the art engine. For now, it's nothing but empty promises. They're confident, we get it

 

[Zafer]

PD170?
PG50?
TS1400?
TEI should finish these engines first. RR-Kale can make the TFX engine. TEI can be in the manufacturing section of the project, not on development.

It is OK that the final phases of developmets take longer, they will be finished soon enough. TEI can and should develop our engines without foreign involvement, it is a shame RR being involved, a few years longer is not too bad if we make it ourselves, while we will already have Kızılelma in our fleet. Once they pull off TF6000 the rest is not so time critical.

 

[Siper>MMU]

It is OK that the final phases of developmets take longer, they will be finished soon enough. TEI can and should develop our engines without foreign involvement, it is a shame RR being involved, a few years longer is not too bad if we make it ourselves, while we will already have Kızılelma in our fleet. Once they pull off TF6000 the rest is not so time critical.

Making a turbofan engine from scratch is already too hard. Why reject ToT from RR? You know British is in the TFX right?

 

[Yasar_TR]

@merzifonlu has made a very important point regarding what Prof Aksit was talking about until he was rudely and stupidly interrupted by the interviewer.
Yes, he says that they can produce an indigenous 35000lbf thrust class turbofan engine. But the engine that was designed to give this amount of thrust is too large to fit in to the fuselage of the TFX. He even says in the same interview, that the making of the plane before the engine was a mistake.
Most probably, with BAE Systems help, they have made a plane that can accommodate f110 size engines. Now they are asking RR/Kale to manufacture an engine that will fit in to this plane, be stealthy and have 35000lbf thrust.

 

[Siper>MMU]

@merzifonlu has made a very important point regarding what Prof Aksit was talking about until he was rudely and stupidly interrupted by the interviewer.
Yes, he says that they can produce an indigenous 35000lbf thrust class turbofan engine. But the engine that was designed to give this amount of thrust is too large to fit in to the fuselage of the TFX. He even says in the same interview, that the making of the plane before the engine was a mistake.
Most probably, with BAE Systems help, they have made a plane that can accommodate f110 size engines. Now they are asking RR/Kale to manufacture an engine that will fit in to this plane, be stealthy and have 35000lbf thrust.

TUSAŞ definitely knows what they are doing. Probably Mr Aksit is upset about TEI hasnt chosen for engine.. Otherwise there isnt a problem making the aircraft before emgine..

 

[Zafer]

Making a turbofan engine from scratch is already too hard. Why reject ToT from RR? You know British is in the TFX right?

RR will design the engine but will not transfer know how and take all the bragging rights.

 

[Yasar_TR]

TUSAŞ definitely knows what they are doing. Probably Mr Aksit is upset about TEI hasnt chosen for engine.. Otherwise there isnt a problem making the aircraft before emgine..

I have no doubt about Tusas making the plane to the specs given without a problem. Especially with the twin F110 engines as a 4++ generation fighter. But when it comes to the 35000lbf class engines that TR Motor was designing, it seemingly has a somewhat larger diameter than the aircraft can accommodate. Prof Aksit sounded like having a bit of sour grapes since they were not involved in this project. But he did say that the producing the plane before the engine being not correct was his opinion.
If you have engines like US has, readily available under your hand, then it is no big deal if you produce the plane before the engine. But if you are like us with difficulty in obtaining the right sized engine, then it is imperative to guarantee supply of the correct engine first.
Also if your prospective engine dimensions are not known and you produce the plane first, you could be jeopardising the program. This is going to be a stealth plane. If the engine diameter is bigger than what you have planned for, then you may have to re design the whole fuselage and airframe.
You could fit a F414 in to a Gripen in place of a F404. But you could have problems with say an EJ-200. Although not impossible.
If memory serves, when Gripen engine was changed in the new E and F block planes to F414, from f404; the plane’s airframe was redesigned by Akaer Group of Brazil to get the best out of the new engine, in spite of the almost identical dimensions of both engines.

 

[Huelague]

@merzifonlu has made a very important point regarding what Prof Aksit was talking about until he was rudely and stupidly interrupted by the interviewer.
Yes, he says that they can produce an indigenous 35000lbf thrust class turbofan engine. But the engine that was designed to give this amount of thrust is too large to fit in to the fuselage of the TFX. He even says in the same interview, that the making of the plane before the engine was a mistake.
Most probably, with BAE Systems help, they have made a plane that can accommodate f110 size engines. Now they are asking RR/Kale to manufacture an engine that will fit in to this plane, be stealthy and have 35000lbf thrust.

It reminds me on Altay engine issue. They said, we have managed to develop a 1500 hp engine. But in a size of a tank. Lol.

 

[Brokengineer]

It is really so hard to believe that TEI could make an engine capable of 35000lbf within a decade.
Development cost of f22 had skyrocketed and engine development is part of the cost.
I am sure ge is infrastructurally and financially capable of making 35000lbf afterburning tf engine. Why should not they bother?

 

[Yasar_TR]

It is really so hard to believe that TEI could make an engine capable of 35000lbf within a decade.
Development cost of f22 had skyrocketed and engine development is part of the cost.
I am sure ge is infrastructurally and financially capable of making 35000lbf afterburning tf engine. Why should not they bother?

Prof Aksit’s statement, makes me think that, presumably, having succeeded in making a TF6000 turbofan, (I am guessing) they have more confidence in making a 35000lbf thrust class turbofan engine.
He doesn’t say he is going to make it. He says he is capable of making it.
In 2018 he said within 14.5 years he could produce the MMU engine with all it’s certifications intact.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1007883589650911232

That was before TS1400. The TS1400 will be ready with certification in 2024 (7-8 years). That was the first attempt at a gas turbine. Having produced a complete engine from scratch, they must have more confidence in themselves. (Especially if they have managed to produce the TF6000 as well)
Don’t over estimate the 35000lbf engine!
F110GE129EFE already produces 34-35000lbf in tests. With long chord blisk fan and certain new upgrades in materials etc this engine can produce the desired thrust anyway.

 

[Osman]

Does tf 6000 really exist? Or is it just a speculation? Apart from this forum, I have not read anything about it. When we will be able to see it you think friends?

 

[Nilgiri]

I have no doubt about Tusas making the plane to the specs given without a problem. Especially with the twin F110 engines as a 4++ generation fighter. But when it comes to the 35000lbf class engines that TR Motor was designing, it seemingly has a somewhat larger diameter than the aircraft can accommodate. Prof Aksit sounded like having a bit of sour grapes since they were not involved in this project. But he did say that the producing the plane before the engine being not correct was his opinion.
If you have engines like US has, readily available under your hand, then it is no big deal if you produce the plane before the engine. But if you are like us with difficulty in obtaining the right sized engine, then it is imperative to guarantee supply of the correct engine first.
Also if your prospective engine dimensions are not known and you produce the plane first, you could be jeopardising the program. This is going to be a stealth plane. If the engine diameter is bigger than what you have planned for, then you may have to re design the whole fuselage and airframe.
You could fit a F414 in to a Gripen in place of a F404. But you could have problems with say an EJ-200. Although not impossible.
If memory serves, when Gripen engine was changed in the new E and F block planes to F414, from f404; the plane’s airframe was redesigned by Akaer Group of Brazil to get the best out of the new engine, in spite of the almost identical dimensions of both engines.

The other option is to design (the airframe) with some measure of flexbility for the powerplant's "range" (governing its physical dimensions and thrust).

i.e rather than design for a strict axbxc volume producing X lbf thrust and weighing Y kg (modelled on centroid etc)..... you design for suitable +/- range governing these.

It is doable in today's design process and software (I can vouch for that)....of course at compromise of detailed design not getting frozen for some time, but staying in an earlier relatively conceptual + fluid tier (which is still useful working reference when you do ultimately select the powerplant to input and then take forward to detailed design).

But it is an option if the powerplant is not secure....and you want to get design process underway while the powerplant decision resolves more firmly.

It will illustrate which parts of the airframe are less sensitive too (vis a vis powerplant choice)....detailed design can commence there along with the design and research intensive components they hold. Those will effectively plug and play into any larger detailed design downroad.