TR Propulsion Systems

[Strong AI]

TUSAŞ Deputy General Manager Prof. Dr. Fahrettin Öztürk:

'We don't have an engine development project for Hürjet.'

The engine currently used by Hürjet is the GE F404 engine. Certain agreements have been made regarding this engine, and specific approvals are awaited, but TEI has the capability to produce it if production permission is obtained.

TEI can produce this engine like the F110. You might ask if TEI can develop such an engine? They can, but that's not on our agenda. Our current agenda is to develop the Kaan engine.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1914602832126214564

TBF it makes sense that they concentrate on KAAN's engine. Of course an indigenous engine for Hürjet would be great, but KAAN means to have air superiority, so we need that indigenous engine for KAAN as soon as possible.

We have limited capital, both in financial and manpower terms, as well as in industrial and technological capacity. Why waste it on a project that is not crucial to us when we already have an engine project that is more important than any other? Hürjet is of secondary importance as it is just a trainer (no matter how much TAI wants to sell it as a combat aircraft as well), albeit a very advanced one, and we can get engines for a trainer far easier than we could for a proper fighter jet.

Honestly worst case plan would be just make a deal with spain so they manufacture and sell jointly and we get a cut, win win, but slightly less profit vs if we did it. Im sure we can buy enough engines for our use.

Let us continue here.

 

[mTT]

TEI-PD170​

 

[Zafer]

Rotax does not have a distributor in Türkiye, an Italian company is assigned as the distributor. At some point Baykar was either the distributor or the service center for Türkiye. All the more reason for Baykar engines to cater to the civilian market. Türkiye does a poor job in having a civilian general aviation sector. There is like 230 or so light sport aircraft in Türkiye while there are around 225.000 in the USA, nearly a thousand fold. A government initiative should be started to invigorate the Turkish LSA sector. We should have like 20.000 planes flying. Now that we are suppressing terror for the most part people should fly more and discover more of the country and the friendly countries.

Luciano Sorlini s.p.a. is the exclusive authorized distributor of BRP-Rotax GmbH & Co. KG for Albania, Bosnia And Herzegovina, Croatia, Cyprus, Gibraltar, Greece, Holy See (vatican City State), Italy, Malta, Pakistan, Portugal, San Marino, Serbia, Spain, Turkey, dealer and service station for Aeroquip, Sigma-tek and other of the most important manufacturers in aeronautical field.

 

[Sanchez]

Türkiye does a poor job in having a civilian general aviation sector.

That's because it's a poor country, don't have a high income middle class and our new money millionaires find spending money on Mercedes a better pastime.

Countries with a still existent GA sector are either rich and have tradition or ex soviet countries with tradition. A larger GA sector requires a complete renewal of SHGM and DHMİ, which I doubt they will anytime soon.

 

[Zafer]

That's because it's a poor country, don't have a high income middle class and our new money millionaires find spending money on Mercedes a better pastime.

Countries with a still existent GA sector are either rich and have tradition or ex soviet countries with tradition. A larger GA sector requires a complete renewal of SHGM and DHMİ, which I doubt they will anytime soon.

There are more things at play than money and tradition. The US has 5500 airports and a vast geography. Those airports are built to be used during WW2. Similar with other countries, because of WW2 they have the tradition. They have it because they had to because of the war. People will not get out of their comfort zone if there is no push to get out. And aviation is no joke you need to put effort in it to be an aviator. However in today's world automation will take the burden out of aviation and there will be more fun and less pain. Planes will fly themselves with very little input from the rider. Also having the flying machines cheaper will attract more people into aviation. SHGM is slow to react but that's because there is not much demand yet and there hasn't been supporting circumstances either like having very few airports in general aviation and other discouraging reasons but they are changing too.

Flying cars, easy to fly planes, smaller cost of ownership, easier regulations, short runway capabilities, and the hype in the personal flight world will move some needles for sure.

 

[Boykaz]

If Baykar wants to expand into the civilian sector, I believe the most strategic way to do so would be through the *cargo industry*.

For example, Baykar could develop *unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs)* capable of carrying *up to 5 tons of cargo* over *4,000–5,000 km*. These UAVs could be used to fulfill international orders or serve in *humanitarian aid operations*.

The technological foundation for this already exists. The *two TS-1400 engines developed by TEI* would be sufficient for such an aircraft. The design could be a larger, cargo-optimized version of Akıncı—perhaps in a rectangular shape to better accommodate freight.

Just imagine: *over 100 drones flying simultaneously*, delivering cargo without the need for pilots, and doing it more *cost-effectively*. These platforms could even be used for military logistics, such as transporting MAM-L munitions

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Wasn't Baykar supposed to work on a JV with Motor Sich of Ukraine on jet engines for the KE?
Does anyone know whether it's still capable after Russians targeted their factory a couple of months ago?

 

[Saithan]

Guys we've been here before.

Remember that TB2 has had over 1 mio flight hours, and if I'm not wrong the first TB2 built for TSK was retired and they got a new one.

Now just think if the engines used on the TB2 had been our own engines. 1 mio. Flight hours would be fucking amazing milestone in the timespan we had a Rotax engine that could be fitted in TB2 etc. which was back in 2015-16 or so.

So we're late, but not going for those milestones means you'll never move beyond the fucking starting line. and that is the mentality that ensured that turkish defense designs didn't flourish until past year 2000. (turkish designed naval vessel blueprint sent to german lurssan to be built in the 70's by our very own TSK).

 

[mTT]

Wasn't Baykar supposed to work on a JV with Motor Sich of Ukraine on jet engines for the KE?
Does anyone know whether it's still capable after Russians targeted their factory a couple of months ago?

There was news that he is building a factory in Turkey. (Location: Samsun)

I think there will be no new news until the Ukraine-Russia war is over.

 

[Zafer]

US price of the Rotax engine comparable to the Baykar BM100 engine, before sales tax.
BM100 should cost more in a military application and about the same for a civilian application.

This engine has a certified version with the name ending with an addition of "C" for certified, which is supposed to be more expensive.

 

[Zafer]

This video interview by Tolga Özbek answers many questions about Light Sport Aircraft or Ultralight class 2 seat planes in Türkiye, Youtube has English translation.

 

[OPTIMUS]

Guys we've been here before.

Remember that TB2 has had over 1 mio flight hours, and if I'm not wrong the first TB2 built for TSK was retired and they got a new one.

Now just think if the engines used on the TB2 had been our own engines. 1 mio. Flight hours would be fucking amazing milestone in the timespan we had a Rotax engine that could be fitted in TB2 etc. which was back in 2015-16 or so.

So we're late, but not going for those milestones means you'll never move beyond the fucking starting line. and that is the mentality that ensured that turkish defense designs didn't flourish until past year 2000. (turkish designed naval vessel blueprint sent to german lurssan to be built in the 70's by our very own TSK).

These are KARTAL class attack torpedo boats.

If one should know how the German shipyard had obtained the designs, there would be a lot of anger attack here.

These boats were even able to prove themselves unexpectedly and surprisingly in the vastness of the Mediterranean and the Black Sea. Very far into dark blue waters, where the Dogan class have difficulties.

 

[Saithan]

These are KARTAL class attack torpedo boats.

If one should know how the German shipyard had obtained the designs, there would be a lot of anger attack here.

These boats were even able to prove themselves unexpectedly and surprisingly in the vastness of the Mediterranean and the Black Sea. Very far into dark blue waters, where the Dogan class have difficulties.

I was sure I had shared the story behind how it went, but I can't find it. It was in turkish. an old archive. I think it's important to save and share these news to never forget the betrayels we experience.

 

[Zafer]

The boost needed for the Turkish general aviation sector to achieve its potential probably lies in the reinstatement of the August 30th Victory Day as Victory and Aviation day as it was originally named. With the circumstances already ripened to a great degree such a step can propel Turkish aviation to its deserved position in the league of top nations in aviation.

 

[Strong AI]

Turkey’s Kaan Fighter Development Gains Momentum

Source: Aviation Week
https://search.app/ZNY7S

Shared via the Google App
View attachment 74793 View attachment 74794

Work is also continuing on an indigenous power and propulsion system for the aircraft; TAI-owned companies TRMotor and TUSAS (Turkish for TAI) Engine Industries (TEI) are handling development. The P0 aircraft, the other prototypes and likely the initial batch of 20 aircraft destined for the Turkish Air Force will be powered by the General Electric F110 engine from the F-16, but Ankara is funding the development of an indigenous engine to make the aircraft as free as possible from U.S. International Traffic in Arms Regulations rules. This would give the country a free reign when it comes to exporting the platform.

A preliminary design review of the engine is planned for the end of this year, Demiroglu says. The company aims to install a flying prototype by 2029. He suggests initial flight trials could take place in a Kaan with an F110 on one side and the indigenous engine installed in the other.

The goal is to make an engine that could essentially drop into the same position as the F110 but achieve higher levels of thrust. TRMotor has developed an auxiliary power unit for the Kaan, and TEI is leading the design of the engine.

 

[TheInsider]

TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

https://www.savunmasanayist.com/kaanda-surec-aciklandi-6-prototip-yolda/ This article from 04 February 2025 is interesting. Here Mr. Gorgun says: Noting that six aircraft will be produced during this process, Görgün said, “The six aircraft will accelerate our processes on the way to mass...

defencehub.live

 

[Zafer]

Engines suitable for Light Sport Aircraft use.
If the Baykar TM100 engine gets customized for LSA use rather than MALE tactical drone use it can be a good competitor in the market

Engine​	Price $​	hp​	kgs​	(hp/kgs)​	($/hp)​	Value​
Aeromomentum AM13 (standard)​	9.995​	100​	77,1​	1,30​	100​	1​
Viking 90 Mitsubishi Aero Conversion​	10.550​	90​	72,1​	1,25​	117​	2​
Rotax 912ULS​	22.893​	100​	78,9​	1,27​	229​	3​
Aeromomentum AM15 (standard)​	11.995​	117​	83,9​	1,39​	103​	4​
UL260iS​	23.980​	107​	72,1​	1,48​	224​	5​
Jabiru 2200​	17.900​	80​	62,1​	1,29​	224​	6​
UL350iS​	26.160​	130​	78,5​	1,66​	201​	7​
Rotax 912UL​	18.702​	80​	77,6​	1,03​	234​	8​
Jabiru 3300​	20.900​	120​	83,5​	1,44​	174​	9​
Viking 130 Honda Aero Conversion​	12.895​	130​	99,8​	1,30​	99​	10​
Rotax 914UL​	38.005​	115​	85,3​	1,35​	330​	11​
AeroVee 2180 VW Aero Conversion​	11.300​	80​	76,2​	1,05​	141​	12​
Rotax 915iS​	43.089​	141​	100,2​	1,41​	306​	13​
Continental O-200​	39.685​	100​	99,8​	1,00​	397​	14​
Rotax 912IS Sport​	27.541​	100​	75,4​	1,33​	275​	​
Baykar TM100​	​	100​	​	​	​	​

 

[Strong AI]

At Teknofest, we caught up with our esteemed teacher Mahmut and asked him about the latest developments in engine technologies. Let’s start right away with the TF6000. What’s the current status?
The TF6000 is currently undergoing maturation testing. In terms of power, we've surpassed the power levels of the imported engines used in the first two Kızılelma prototypes. Thank God, we’ve reached those power levels. Of course, there’s still work to be done to get it ready for flight, but right now, we’ve shifted the focus from the TF6000 to the TF10000, because Kızılelma has now transitioned to an afterburning engine, as communicated to us.

You know, in their third prototype, they moved to an afterburning engine. So we prioritized the TF10000 over the TF6000 and are currently working on that.
Is Kızılelma likely to be the first aircraft it flies on? What kind of in-air testing are you planning?
It could be Kızılelma or Anka-3 that’s also coming. Although, Anka-3 requires the TF6000 due to its need for radar invisibility and low thermal signature, among other things.

But since Kızılelma switched to the afterburning version, it's being prepared for supersonic flight. Their requirements differ, so it’s hard to say which will fly first. The platform manufacturers will ultimately decide.
You've probably completed a significant portion of the testing.
Once we've tested all the critical aspects of the engine and handed it over, saying “you can fly now,” the platform teams make the final decision. Hopefully, that moment is near. We're eagerly following the process.

Rightfully, you’re cautious about giving dates. This is aviation delays can happen. But things are progressing well, right?
Let’s switch to the TS1400. It was delivered to the Gendarmerie on the Gökbey helicopter. We’ve been watching closely to see the Gökbey fly with the local TS1400 engine. What’s the current status?
The TS1400 engine is technically ready to fly in fact, it has already flown. It flew with the signatures of both our TEI engineering flightworthiness team and TAI’s flight safety team back in 2023.

Since then, we've conducted more testing. We already knew the engine could produce sufficient power, and that it could do so reliably and consistently. But the next step is to answer questions like: “Okay, you built it well but how long will it last? How durable is it?” That’s a longer-term testing process.
We’ve now completed durability testing. There’s a specific durability test designed by EASA (European Union Aviation Safety Agency) to stress the engine.

I previously mentioned in interviews that we repeated it about 10 times. We’ve now done it 25 times we've gone beyond that. And we’ve pushed the engine to 1,740 horsepower twice, and even a bit higher once. Thank God, it's still operational in terms of both durability and power output.
The required power for takeoff is about 1,370 horsepower under normal conditions. In emergency scenarios, like losing one engine, 1,660 horsepower is needed. We’ve gone beyond 1,740 horsepower. So, the engine is pretty much ready to power a helicopter.

So why is Gökbey still being delivered with imported engines?
There are two reasons: First, they already had a stock of imported engines. Second, and more importantly, Gökbey is an internationally certified civilian helicopter. That means the engine must also be civilian-certified.
It’s not enough for us to say, “Our engine passed the tests, you can use it.” The international certification authorities and their Turkish representatives must witness the tests and receive the official documentation.

As I’ve said before, the civilian certification process takes time.
But once it’s done, it proves something very important: People have asked, “Can you produce an engine for a passenger plane?” Once TS1400 is fully civilian-certified, it shows we can indeed build a commercial aircraft engine.
Why? Because a civilian-certified engine means it's safe and reliable enough to carry people on international platforms whether it’s for airplanes or helicopters.

So once that’s achieved, we’ll have reached a major milestone.
Technically, I already believe we can do it. It’s just a matter of going through the process. Once civilian certification is complete, you’ll see our engines being mass-produced. It’s a multi-year process, but not too far off.

Let’s also touch on the KAAN project your work there is very important. How is that going?
We’re not really allowed to give dates, as requested by our leadership. It’s more satisfying to say “We did it” once it’s done. But we are making rapid progress.
The main engine architecture has been finalized. We’re now in the detailed calculation phase. Next, we’ll move to prototype manufacturing and testing.

There’s still a long road ahead, but the engine prototype is not too far away, God willing.
You’re trying to build the most advanced jet engine possible.
Yes. And this class of engine we’re talking about the world’s most advanced aviation engine technology. Only 3 or 4 such engines exist globally in this category.
This isn’t a standard fighter engine like the F110. It’s a much more advanced one. It’s the peak of aviation engine tech.
Once you’ve built this, you can build anything passenger jets, etc.

And of course, that level of complexity means production takes time.
You’re producing a motor beyond standard alloys and standard manufacturing techniques pushing the limits. So it takes time.
We don’t want to make promises about speed, but we’re moving as fast as we can.
For example, the foreign engine currently used in helicopters made its first flight after 8 years. You can check this online. We did it in 6 years so we were pretty fast.
God willing, we’ll see similar or better progress with the KAAN engine too.

Let’s hope so.
After Gökbey, is the T925 or Atak-2 helicopter next in line? Any engines being developed for those platforms?
Yes, the Defense Industry Presidency is working on that infrastructure. You know we’re also producing the T700 engine under license, and we’ve effectively built most of it ourselves.

Once you’ve built one engine, building similar ones becomes faster and relatively easier.
There are preliminary studies for a larger engine, but the official green light and full-scale launch will be announced by the Defense Industry Presidency when the time comes.
But yes, we’re preparing.

So you’re getting ready maybe for a 3,000-horsepower class engine?
Exactly. Atak-2 needs an engine in the 3,000 hp class. Our current TS1400 is labeled 1,400, but in reality, it delivers 1,500 to 1,600 hp. So we expect the new engine to be about twice that in the 3,000 hp class. We’re preparing accordingly.

Thank you very much for taking time in your busy schedule to speak with us. Hopefully, we can go into more detail at IDEF.
Yes, hopefully! There are good updates but deciding when and what to announce is up to the Defense Industry Presidency.
We’ll see what they allow us to share at IDEF. Hopefully, we’ll be able to present exciting new developments then.
Thank you very much, sir. Best of luck and respect to you.
Thank you much appreciated.

 

[mTT]

At Teknofest, we caught up with our esteemed teacher Mahmut and asked him about the latest developments in engine technologies. Let’s start right away with the TF6000. What’s the current status?
The TF6000 is currently undergoing maturation testing. In terms of power, we've surpassed the power levels of the imported engines used in the first two Kızılelma prototypes. Thank God, we’ve reached those power levels. Of course, there’s still work to be done to get it ready for flight, but right now, we’ve shifted the focus from the TF6000 to the TF1000, because Kızılelma has now transitioned to an afterburning engine, as communicated to us.

You know, in their third prototype, they moved to an afterburning engine. So we prioritized the TF1000 over the TF6000 and are currently working on that.
Is Kızılelma likely to be the first aircraft it flies on? What kind of in-air testing are you planning?
It could be Kızılelma or Anka-3 that’s also coming. Although, Anka-3 requires the TF6000 due to its need for radar invisibility and low thermal signature, among other things.

But since Kızılelma switched to the afterburning version, it's being prepared for supersonic flight. Their requirements differ, so it’s hard to say which will fly first. The platform manufacturers will ultimately decide.
You've probably completed a significant portion of the testing.
Once we've tested all the critical aspects of the engine and handed it over, saying “you can fly now,” the platform teams make the final decision. Hopefully, that moment is near. We're eagerly following the process.

Rightfully, you’re cautious about giving dates. This is aviation delays can happen. But things are progressing well, right?
Let’s switch to the TS1400. It was delivered to the Gendarmerie on the Gökbey helicopter. We’ve been watching closely to see the Gökbey fly with the local TS1400 engine. What’s the current status?
The TS1400 engine is technically ready to fly in fact, it has already flown. It flew with the signatures of both our TEI engineering flightworthiness team and TAI’s flight safety team back in 2023.

Since then, we've conducted more testing. We already knew the engine could produce sufficient power, and that it could do so reliably and consistently. But the next step is to answer questions like: “Okay, you built it well but how long will it last? How durable is it?” That’s a longer-term testing process.
We’ve now completed durability testing. There’s a specific durability test designed by EASA (European Union Aviation Safety Agency) to stress the engine.

I previously mentioned in interviews that we repeated it about 10 times. We’ve now done it 25 times we've gone beyond that. And we’ve pushed the engine to 1,740 horsepower twice, and even a bit higher once. Thank God, it's still operational in terms of both durability and power output.
The required power for takeoff is about 1,370 horsepower under normal conditions. In emergency scenarios, like losing one engine, 1,660 horsepower is needed. We’ve gone beyond 1,740 horsepower. So, the engine is pretty much ready to power a helicopter.

So why is Gökbey still being delivered with imported engines?
There are two reasons: First, they already had a stock of imported engines. Second, and more importantly, Gökbey is an internationally certified civilian helicopter. That means the engine must also be civilian-certified.
It’s not enough for us to say, “Our engine passed the tests, you can use it.” The international certification authorities and their Turkish representatives must witness the tests and receive the official documentation.

As I’ve said before, the civilian certification process takes time.
But once it’s done, it proves something very important: People have asked, “Can you produce an engine for a passenger plane?” Once TS1400 is fully civilian-certified, it shows we can indeed build a commercial aircraft engine.
Why? Because a civilian-certified engine means it's safe and reliable enough to carry people on international platforms whether it’s for airplanes or helicopters.

So once that’s achieved, we’ll have reached a major milestone.
Technically, I already believe we can do it. It’s just a matter of going through the process. Once civilian certification is complete, you’ll see our engines being mass-produced. It’s a multi-year process, but not too far off.

Let’s also touch on the KAAN project your work there is very important. How is that going?
We’re not really allowed to give dates, as requested by our leadership. It’s more satisfying to say “We did it” once it’s done. But we are making rapid progress.
The main engine architecture has been finalized. We’re now in the detailed calculation phase. Next, we’ll move to prototype manufacturing and testing.

There’s still a long road ahead, but the engine prototype is not too far away, God willing.
You’re trying to build the most advanced jet engine possible.
Yes. And this class of engine we’re talking about the world’s most advanced aviation engine technology. Only 3 or 4 such engines exist globally in this category.
This isn’t a standard fighter engine like the F110. It’s a much more advanced one. It’s the peak of aviation engine tech.
Once you’ve built this, you can build anything passenger jets, etc.

And of course, that level of complexity means production takes time.
You’re producing a motor beyond standard alloys and standard manufacturing techniques pushing the limits. So it takes time.
We don’t want to make promises about speed, but we’re moving as fast as we can.
For example, the foreign engine currently used in helicopters made its first flight after 8 years. You can check this online. We did it in 6 years so we were pretty fast.
God willing, we’ll see similar or better progress with the KAAN engine too.

Let’s hope so.
After Gökbey, is the T925 or Atak-2 helicopter next in line? Any engines being developed for those platforms?
Yes, the Defense Industry Presidency is working on that infrastructure. You know we’re also producing the T700 engine under license, and we’ve effectively built most of it ourselves.

Once you’ve built one engine, building similar ones becomes faster and relatively easier.
There are preliminary studies for a larger engine, but the official green light and full-scale launch will be announced by the Defense Industry Presidency when the time comes.
But yes, we’re preparing.

So you’re getting ready maybe for a 3,000-horsepower class engine?
Exactly. Atak-2 needs an engine in the 3,000 hp class. Our current TS1400 is labeled 1,400, but in reality, it delivers 1,500 to 1,600 hp. So we expect the new engine to be about twice that in the 3,000 hp class. We’re preparing accordingly.

Thank you very much for taking time in your busy schedule to speak with us. Hopefully, we can go into more detail at IDEF.
Yes, hopefully! There are good updates — but deciding when and what to announce is up to the Defense Industry Presidency.
We’ll see what they allow us to share at IDEF. Hopefully, we’ll be able to present exciting new developments then.
Thank you very much, sir. Best of luck and respect to you.
Thank you much appreciated.

short summary:

ANKA = TEI-TF6000 Turbofan Engine
KIZILELMA = TEI-TF10000 Turbofan Engine = (TF6000 + Afterburner) (Priority)
TS1400 = We passed the EASA engine (durability) test without any problems (25 times). Civil certification is ongoing.
T925 = We have preliminary work on the TS3000 engine, which will be used in the ATAK-2 helicopter.

 

[Strong AI]

short summary:

ANKA = TEI-TF6000 Turbofan Engine
KIZILELMA = TEI-TF10000 Turbofan Engine = (TF6000 + Afterburner) (Priority)
TS1400 = We passed the EASA engine (durability) test without any problems (25 times). Civil certification is ongoing.
T925 = We have preliminary work on the TS3000 engine, which will be used in the ATAK-2 helicopter.

• TF6000:
  • Undergoing maturation testing.
  • Power output now exceeds that of imported engines used in early Kızılelma prototypes.
  • Temporarily deprioritized in favor of TF10000.
• TF10000:
  • Now prioritized as Kızılelma has transitioned to an afterburning engine.
  • Intended for supersonic capabilities.
• Kızılelma vs. Anka-3:
  • Kızılelma requires an afterburning engine (TF10000).
  • Anka-3 may use TF6000 due to stealth and low thermal signature needs.
  • Which aircraft flies first with indigenous engine depends on platform manufacturers.
• TS1400 (for Gökbey helicopter):
  • Technically flight-ready; has flown since 2023.
  • Completed extensive durability testing, exceeding 1,740 horsepower.
  • Awaiting civilian certification—necessary for use in internationally certified helicopters.
  • Certification seen as a step toward commercial aircraft engine production.
• KAAN fighter jet engine:
  • Engine architecture finalized; currently in detailed design and calculations.
  • Prototype development next.
  • Aims to be among the world’s most advanced aviation engines.
  • Comparable engines are rare globally (only 3–4 in existence).
• Future helicopter engines:
  • Work underway for a new engine in the 3,000 horsepower class for Atak-2 and T925.
  • Builds on experience from TS1400 and T700 engine production.